Why the R.E.D action figures are the worst thing to happen to transformers since energon.

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Too qik, Sep 24, 2021.

  1. Racer_J

    Racer_J Permanently logged out . . .

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    That doesn't mean stuff isn't selling though (like how my previous reply pointed out and the example that PlanckEpoch provided). It's really easy to walk down an aisle, or go past a vehicle dealership, and so on while forming the opinion of "shelfwarmer" (I still do it even with all of the experience that I have in retail). It's impossible to tell just by looking at an aisle though because, logistics and sales in retail are vastly more complex than that. Appearances can be extremely deceiving and, that's why retail uses actual data to assess what is and isn't selling in order to ascertain if a company wants more or wants to hold off for the next item/assortment/refresh/ etc. and then all of that is tracked by the manufacturer so that they can forecast trends on existing/future products (because no one in retail wants to be left holding the bag on product that they can't move).

    PlanckEpoch also raised a really good point about markets. An item could be selling extremely poorly in one market and flying out of the doors at speeds that would give you whiplash in another market.

    All an empty shelf/peg/location can legitimately tell anyone from a cursory evaluation at this point in time is "oh logistics are probably still a mess" and, that's only because the hoarding has stopped and there is sufficient data which is publicly available that spans from 2020 through 5 days shy of October of 2021. Prior to 2020 an empty shelf/peg/location couldn't tell a consumer anything as it could have been for a multitude of reasons (planned phase out, discontinued and no new planogram, backstocked, delays, high volume, low volume but auto-replenishment is wrong, OH counts are wrong due to shrink inside the store and/or shrink prior to the store, OH counts are wrong due to the warehouse putting the correct SKU label on the wrong SIOC box and no one realized it at any point in time, etc.). There are just far too many variables involved to judge how well something is selling based on appearances.


    It might be and, it might not be. It's confidential and internal data though and, anyone that's caught revealing it (and it will catch up to that person at some point) is going to be on a one-way express trip to where they don't want to be (how bad will depend on the paperwork that was signed). Even if RED (or any other line picked out at random) were to completely fall off the face of the Earth, no one could point to that as definitive proof of poor sales. Even stuff at clearance/discount stores (Ollie's/TJM/ROSS.BL/etc.) isn't definitive proof that something sold poorly because, the company purchaser could have over-purchased from the start (or market saturation hit sooner than it should have). Lines can even meet forecasts/predictions and still be dropped because, ultimately everyone involved wants exponential growth. Retail is essentially a living version of the chorus from "Never Enough" (The Greatest Showman OST).

    Then there are the WTF were you thinking situations where a company actively chases exponential growth:

    e.g. Mattel wanted continued exponential growth for MOTU in the 80s and they planned around that and the massive sales figures that had been pouring in as well as not being able to keep up with demand. That resulted in the market being flooded with MOTU products (too much choice can be an extremely bad thing for products) and, that ramp-up coincided with Transformers bursting onto the scene along with Robotech, Voltron, and Thundercats. MOTU was able to drag on through 1987 but, their sales had been plummeting the entire time. Mattel was caught completely off-guard and, it's really unfortunate that no one at Mattel ever said "hang on" just like no one at Hasbro ever said "wait" about trying to make Transformers into a product to compete with Micro Machines and then into Action Masters (even though several prominent action figure lines had been cancelled (due to age/sales and then TMNT dropping in 1988 and decimating everything else through the mid/late 90s).

    Then there are the outliers:

    I used to love shopping at Children's Palace because, I could go into the local one and it would always have exactly what I went in for. The only exceptions were Super Shredder (the movie one) and Bartman. As a child, my view was "oh this store is well stocked and amazing". As an adult (with retail experience) my view is "entirely way too much merchandise was purchased and Children's Palace thought it had positioned itself as the place to get toys and weren't prepared for Hypermart". For those of you reading this and saying [Panthro]WTF is a Hypermart?[/Panthro], Hypermarts were the evolutionary point between Walmart and Super Walmart. Hypermart was a one stop shopping experience (that made Service Merchandise, Kmart, Target, etc. look like they had no selection) which had most of what you wanted, arcade games at the food court (don't picture a mall food court; it was more like Costco), free food samples all through grocery section (No one had ever seen it on this level before nor since), and most importantly there were several absolutely massive LEGO sculptures near the registers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2021
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  2. Robogeek28

    Robogeek28 Proud grandpa

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    Same.

    Kingdom Megatron neither.
     
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  3. Bakarina

    Bakarina Unapologetic Megatron Fangirl

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    Because people are actually buying those ones.
     
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  4. moonDUST

    moonDUST Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say RED is the worst thing ever. Initially I was highly anticipating this line. Emphasis on robot design without the need to Transform, in theory that could mean good proportioned bots, better articulation, maybe finally some proper scaled pretender shells etc. I originally had both Prime and Megs on pre order, but after seeing the first reviews I canceled them. Soft plastic, no improved articulation, no scale, etc... It just wasn't for me. I do wonder how long Red will manage to continue now Super7 is exploring similar territory (and seemingly doing it better).. In the end it is what it is. I guess if you want a Marvel Legends sized Optimus or Bee interacting with you Legends X-men on your shelve RED is a good option.
     
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  5. Jounar

    Jounar Active Member

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    This ^. Considering how good the Studio Series and WFC figures have got in regard to character show accuracy and scale, I just don't see the point in the RED line.
     
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  6. Racer_J

    Racer_J Permanently logged out . . .

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    I don't see WOO-WOO-WOO-WOO!!!1's (Red Alert's) name so now we have to fight to the death . . .

    I liked/like Rodimus, Wheeljack, (I mean Downshift), Tow-lLne, Ironhide, Jetfire, and Cliffjumper/Beachcomber as individual robots/vehicles (full disclosure I purchased the entire line). I could have done without all the WoW proportioned pauldrons/spaulders though lol. The actual Powerlinx modes were a very polarizing and subjective thing (most of it looked really bad to me). I have to agree that the figures that lacked the Powerlinx gimmick stole the show (#ALLHAILSuperlinkScorponok).
     
  7. JomasterII

    JomasterII The Space Consultant from Jolo

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    Pretty sure WOO WOO WOO WOO's only Energon release was in a 2-pack with a similar repaint of Armada Screamer, right? :p 
    Downshift Cliffjumper Wheeljackm'n is a personal fave for sure. :v
     
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  8. Thundershot

    Thundershot Ratchet Fanatic

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    Whoa whoa whoa… Energon may have had a subpar cartoon, but they had a lot of fun toys.
     
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  9. Racer_J

    Racer_J Permanently logged out . . .

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    Yes it came with Ramjet (I mean Starscream) but, it still called itself Red Alert and most importantly . . .

    entries.jpg
    bRaNdInG us bRaNdInG!!!1
     
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  10. Racer_J

    Racer_J Permanently logged out . . .

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    Imma let you finish but, Key-cuh was the best sidekick of all time. Of. All. Time . . .
     
  11. JomasterII

    JomasterII The Space Consultant from Jolo

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    True. XD
     
  12. RazorclawX

    RazorclawX Campaign Oracle

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    The last time I was at Walmart they had a fresh case of Netflix figures and Wave 2 Kingdom. Surely that means they didn't sell?

    Of course not; that's ridiculous.Unless you're actively watching the store shelf you can't make that kind of a conclusion with that kind of data.
     
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  13. Mizzinno

    Mizzinno Merc With A Mouthplate

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    I'm sorry, but I stopped listening after you said "Since Energon". Energon was a good toy line, there have been far worse since. Cyberverse oustide of the deluxes would be the most recent example.
     
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  14. Mister D

    Mister D Bloosh Compatible

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    Exactly.

    I have Superman toys. Superman flies. The toys do not. #toyfail. ;) 

    Transformers is also a name used for Cybertronians, and, for legal reasons, Hasbro toys convert, not transform.

    RED has no appeal to me, but I get that some people just want the characters to be on their shelf, and don't give a whit about alt modes or transformations. I would understand the hate if the RED line meant we weren't getting Generations, Studio Series, Masterpiece, Selects, or even Cyberverse, sorta how Beast Wars killed vehicles for a few years, but that's not the case. They are an addition to the transforming figures, not a substitution.

    That said, I do think that the RED figures (at least the first two waves) weren't well done. Even if I were interested in non-transforming Transformers, I am non iterested in poorly made non-transforming Transformers, which, to me, they have so far been.
     
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  15. Mister D

    Mister D Bloosh Compatible

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    1) I am going to give the OP some credit in assuming he is comparing apples to apples. RED has no supporting cartoon (Sunbow doesn't count), so toy-to-toy. Even so, Power Core Combiners were still a thing.
    2) Even if he was including entertainment media, I'd take Energon over The Last Knight any day.

    If Specter Creative is correct (and while not perfect, he seems to know the business), stores expect to sell roughly a figure per case per week. That's why restocks are slow - a case of 8 is planned to sell over a two months span. The point being that you can't judge the sale of the line based on four days. All this tells us is that the local scalpers aren't hot for the line.
     
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  16. kronatron

    kronatron Well-Known Member

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    I was a kid in 1990 when Actionmasters came on to the scene. Had a choice of getting a real nice lego set at KayBee or an actionmaster grimlock. I was like, "Grimlock, duh!" Got home, ripped it out of its package and then came the realization..."WTF? This POS doesn't transform? And it can barely hold a pose?" It was 1996 before I looked at another TF again.

    My kid saw one of RED cheetor the other day and he was really excited, "ooooooh!" To which I replied with one word: "actionmaster." He looked at the flashbacky regret etched in my cold dead gaze, looked at the box, looked at me again, tossed the box back on the shelf.

    Thing is, I would've gotten it for him if he really wanted it, but as he put it, "why call it a transformer if it doesn't transform? It has one job. Anything else is a ken doll in a costume."

    So yeah I think RED may do more damage to the line's potential, though it may be a "neat" gateway into the brand for folks who collect shelf candy and maybe later try other picks that do transform. Meh.
     
  17. Prescient

    Prescient Well-Known Member

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    Transformers Energon (2004) was indeed awesome and the most important step change in the toy's history.

    It gave us proper full figure posability in a relatively decent scale, with quality alt and bot modes across most of the range. We can directly attribute our phenomenal generations and studio series lines to the the evolution from and since Energon.

    Armada / RID 2000 was still limited in this regard and a lot of figures were very bricky, for example with scavenger's toy being a literal block of plastic that stood up.

    Circa 32 years ago, action masters along with pretenders signalled the end of transformers in the UK.

    I quite liked the idea of RED when first announced. Toy lines and pop culture has evolved considerably since the 80s and 6" scale posable figures like Marvel Legends etc have afforded ample opportunity for a successful RED line.

    I can see the current rationale and market segment for it but its execution is poor.

    This always remains very apt.

    The market for quality posable non-transforming figures is definitely there in the franchise. ThreeZero proves this but it is at the high end of the market.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2021
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  18. FAKER II

    FAKER II Cheap Repaint

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    I'm not opposed to the concept of non-transforming Transformers action figures. I would love a line of TF action figures with great sculpts, likeness of the Sunbow animation designs, and properly scaled with each other.

    Heck, if they gave us the entire lineup of characters from Sunbow up through Zone, I’d prefer that over Generations. Only for the sake that for every Generations figure that rocks, like Studio Series 86 Grimlock, there's another figure that doesn't do the character justice, like TR Metalhawk.

    All that said, R.E.D. is not what I would want in a TF action figure line. The sculpts are subpar. Every figure is the same height so scale is ruined.
     
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  19. iacon45

    iacon45 Missing: One Custom Title

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    I also never saw Earthrise Quintesson or Earthrise Megatron on shelf. I ended up getting Quintesson online and ER Megatron was not a big loss since I prefer Siege Megatron. Did end up getting the ER Megatron mold though when Selects G2 Megatron was released and it is a better mold than I initially thought.

    And despite the sub-par cartoon, some of the Energon toys were pretty good. I thought the Decepticons were the stronger figures of the line with a few exceptions but some of the Autobots were not bad either. I still have Energon Inferno on my classics shelf as a stand-in for G1 Hosehead.
     
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  20. Terradives

    Terradives Well-Known Member

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    I feel that the red line would be a good line for GameStop exclusively. I hate it taking up shelf space at Walmart. I hate that is the only getting stocked or just not moving. With shipping problems right now red should have gone on hiatus. Hasbro needs to focus on their core product. Non transforming transformers aren’t it. Lastly the spare hand and all that are great. Nothing is saying they couldn’t include those in regular toys.
     
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