the complete marvel cinematic universe thread

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by Crazy Ramjetty, Jun 1, 2012.

  1. Omegashark18

    Omegashark18 Combaticon turned Autobot

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Posts:
    16,156
    News Credits:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +10,080
  2. Omegashark18

    Omegashark18 Combaticon turned Autobot

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Posts:
    16,156
    News Credits:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +10,080
    A fanfic writer I follow recently posted this in his latest authors note of his newest chapter because people kept PM’ing him about making use of stuff from Phase 4 in his MCU Spider-Man/MHA crossover story and this was his answer to all that, major rant warning. Spoilered due to length.

    Fuck off and if you think anything in Phase 4 I list below so far is of quality. Then good luck calling anything bad.

    WandaVision assassinated Wanda Maximoff and turned her into a monster, devoid of morals, who would brainwash a town, steal the free will of the denizens there, and then the writers muck about her backstory in that she was descended entirely from some line of witches instead of her powers coming straight from the stone. Oh by the way Vision is back so as Luke Skywalker says: "no one's ever really gone". She should have repented dearly for her actions in stealing that town's life, yet "No one will know what you sacrificed". Fuck off. And I LOVED Wanda too. This was fucking aggravating to watch.

    Falcon and the Winter Solider screwed over the world building and has it's morals in complete misalignment. We are supposed to feel sympathy for the Flag Smashers when they're committing terrorist acts and immolating people and running around with the Super soldier serum. No, they're incorrigible monsters in the same line as Al Qaeda. And we are to make a big sob story over MAsked Chick(cannot be bothered to remember her name. She's basically masked chick from Solo. Fight da powah). And we demonize John Walker when he was serving his country valiantly, doing his job and fighting with his best friend, and avenging him when a terrorist mocks him for it, yet because of music we think John is evil. By the way, Sam was the one who didn't follow Steve's word in keeping the shield(Bucky should never have forgiven him for that). The Wakandans are hypocrites to their core("Its alright if I do espionage, but F you if you do". Same issue as Gate: JDSF and Japan's hypocrisy of them weilding might yet if other countries do so they're bullies), and don't tell me Sam's costume is cool because its the same as the comics. It looks ridiculous and looks like the Wakandan's trolled Sam for fun. "Do better senator"? How about offer solutions than just offering a non platitude of an answer. Oh, and great job character assasinating Tony in not having Stark Industries or Pepper come up with a relief fund for the Avenger's families post Snap. Instead, nah lets make Sam's fam poor because we need to be on a boat. The only good things to come from this is Zemo getting out a bit unscathed, John Walker being around for future installments, and some of the interactions with Sam and Bucky. But thats it.

    Then Loki came and all the world building past present and future got fucked because HEY GUESS WHAT. NO FREE WILL YOU WERE ALL BEING PUPPETS BY SOME JOLY DUDE IN ANOTHER DIMENSON USING SPACE LIZARDS AND SPACETIME PINKERTONS. Marvel knew what they lost in killing off Loki in IW, and instead of committing and letting his character have a satisfying arc in that he came to love his brother ("Odinson..."), we have the Loki from Endgame(which I am calling it now, Endgame is pretty meh. 5/10 at best since so many issues, but good payoffs at the end), who minutes before was content with conquering the Earth and being a manipulative BAMF about it, be reduced and humilated and dragged along by his female counterpart who does all the heavy lifting(and is a sobbing mess for her when days ago he wouldn't have cared, even if it was himself). And we get "Oh oh oh comics comics! Alternate Lokis!", utter annoying cringe is what it is. And so say nothing, nothing of how the timeline maintenance just fucked over so so many characters and that there's no semblance of stakes retroactively.

    If Uncle Ben didn't die he would have melted. If Stephen Strange didn't get in a car crash he would have melted. If John was 'rational and reasonable' in the height of emotional rage when he smashed that terrorist's skull in he would have melted. If Thor had done the snap instead of Professor Hulk instead of War Machine turning him into a joke as a way to make right and atone, he would have metled. If Tony had been killed in the caves the terrorists would have melted. If Steve Rogers didn't get into the seruem program, who else would have been melted. People saying We Wuz Kangs is better than Thanos as a villain, fuck off. And yes I made that joke, Marvel walked themselves right into it like Sideshow Bob and a rake.

    Loki being Bi/Gender fluid is not an issue, since Loki in norse myth was always a super kinky bitch. So, good for them I guess.

    This was all to bring back Hiddelston for more roles because people loved him, and to open the gates for NoWayHome, which I will get into.

    And then Black Widow decides to assasinate Natasha Romanoff and her character completely, making the smart and savy and seductive spy into a Head-desk'ing twat, who decided that burying an entire prison filled with those fulfilling their debt to society and the law enforcement to guard them under snow all for the sake of one person(a convict no less) in the most clumsily way possible really screwed her over from a morality standpoint. And then being dragged along for the ride all so that this film can build up her sister because "well we need a widow, but she died so... oh, let's make her sister come instead". A sister who for years has been in the Red Room as a killing machine, but one exposure of the brainwashing antidote and she's cracking jokes and wise cracks when all of her life has been nothing but pain and suffering, and she should be throttling to kill her Fake mother in Milleena since she allowed all fo this happen. Also the fight choreography was crap(save for the first encounter Nat had with Taskmaster, since the copy gimick was pretty neat), but everything else, from NotHarveyWeinstein to Anthony Masters being yeeted into the ether for "lul another brainwashed woman, HAVE WE TOLD YOU HOW TRAFFIKING AND ABUSE ON WOMEN IS BAD YET?" It would have been fascinating for Draykov's daughter to not have been brainwashed at all, but instead fight Natasha to the bitter end hating her for almost killing her and killing her father, to show that there are some who are too far gone or beyond your reach. Oh, and while Nat died for the universe her sister will be manipulated, again, by that one crazy lady to ruin Hawkeye and his family. Where the hell did she get the info of Clint being involved with Nat's sacrifice?

    *sigh*

    This movie should have been how Nat and Clint met in Sao Paolo. How he brought her into the light and into shield and the two forming an excellent duo and good friends, as we saw in Avengers and onward. But naaah can't have a white man help a woman with her problems these days(so says the director in interviews. Same deal with Wanda too, even though Strange could have handled Wanda's issue since he's in NYC and she was in Jersey, nah gotta let the ladies figure it out and not take into account the massive world of super powered characters that would notice this shit) or otherwise it sets back feminist values a 100 years, so says the writing team full of twitter checkmarks who wrote the script in 12 DAYS WITH NO REDRAFTS.

    And then the No Way Home Trailer. Surely you think me loving MCU Spidey and not being a Comics lover would make like it right?

    No, not at all.

    First off, where the hell is Pepper and Stark Industries, and the Skrulls who worked with Peter in FFH? They should be pulling whatever they can to help one of their own. And if you wanna do an organic introduction to She-Hulk, bring in Jennifer Watson and Hulk! Instead we have Peter running to Dr. Strange because current Marvel writers forget Pepper Potts exists when she should be helping an Avenger who fought alongside her husband, and we have Strange willing to go along with a spell that wipes everyone's memories of Peter being Spider-Man, despite Wong's objections to the spell.

    And instead of thinking "oh, I can just tell MJ and Ned and Aunt May and Happy on this later when all's well with the world", Peter doesn't keep his mouth shut and Strange fucks up the spell, and thus we have MultiVerse stuff happening. All because Disney and Sony want another SpiderVerse. Not have a story of Peter dealing with his identity being out and hunting Mysterio's team, maybe working with Daredevil and/or She-Hulk, alongside with owning his mistake of trusting Mysterio and taking responsibility, but instead he has to be mentor'ed by another and dragged along for MultiVersal shenanigans because we have a CGI budget we need to spend for tax reasons and oh, instead of trying to bring forth a new Otto Octavius, Max Dillon, and Norman Osborne; find a new set of actors who would be great in giving their own interpretations, let's all cash in on that BEAUTIFUL NOSTALGIA and cast two grandpas and Jamie Foxx in their roles again. The De-aging CGI is not gonna look pretty. All for the sake of "lets have Toby and Andrew and Tom fight alongside each other! Like SpiderVerse". All for a One More Day in movie form, with a dose of fanservice so heavy and thickening I would get sick from it. And this is coming from a degenrate like me that wrote and likes Manyuu Hikenchou and Sekirei! Because forget trying anything original and grounded, we got to make it all insane with no logical consistency and stakes involved.

    Because muh comics.

    The only saving grace is that Strange is actually Mephisto and he did this all to accomplish some evil plan, because Strange wouldn't take a risk like this. That's how far I am concerned for past characters in hopes that they're different people instead of being assasinated.

    Haven't watched Shang Chi, and honeslty with how the MCU Has been looking, I'm just about done. So please, stop telling me to like MCU phase 4 or to implement the utter brainkilling bullshit that Marvel Studios has been producing.

    /rant

    *sigh*

    If this turned you off somehow, I'm sorry. I had to get this off my chest and speak my peace. If you are turned off by this? Fine. I get it. It's why I'm liking more Eastern media these days from games to shows since they have more consistency going on in their storytelling(and they appeal to me in some ways. Nier Automata, Fire Emblem 3 houses despite it's broken plot at times). Finding good stuff in the west like The Father, The Suicide Squad, Daredevil, and Black Sails is like finding water in the Sahara.

    Not sure if I necessarily agree with his heavy use of character assassination.
     
  3. Triceradon

    Triceradon Sunbow Delenda Est

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Posts:
    1,764
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +3,235
    “John Walker is the good guy, actually” is such a gross take.
     
    • Like Like x 10
  4. dinobot1

    dinobot1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Posts:
    1,039
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +1,863
    It’s Movie Optimus Prime all over again. They both do controversial deeds like executing neutralized enemies. The difference being that Walker’s actions are actually framed as being wrong. I’m also confused how Sam and Bucky trying to handle the Flag-Smashers through nonviolent means first is them siding with them.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  5. Triceradon

    Triceradon Sunbow Delenda Est

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Posts:
    1,764
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +3,235
    The equation of Al-Qaeda with the Flag Smashers smacks of “If you’re not with us, you’re with the terrorists.”
     
    • Like Like x 5
  6. optimusmegas

    optimusmegas Target-Power-Titan-Prime-Battle-Master

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Posts:
    10,935
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +13,664
    Ebay:
    i don't see how he's not
     
  7. Hobbes-timus Prime

    Hobbes-timus Prime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Posts:
    4,959
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    342
    Likes:
    +7,856
    He's literally the show's antagonist and is recruited by Hydra at the end.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. optimusmegas

    optimusmegas Target-Power-Titan-Prime-Battle-Master

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Posts:
    10,935
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +13,664
    Ebay:
    okay point on the hydra part but..does he know it's hydra?

    but up until there i don't see him as the bad guy. flag smashers were the antagonists.
     
  9. Triceradon

    Triceradon Sunbow Delenda Est

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Posts:
    1,764
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +3,235
    Murdering someone who he KNEW was innocent of Lemar’s death in cold blood, in full view of the world is not a sign of a good person, unless you think suspected criminals getting murdered on live TV by armed agents of the state who were tasked with arresting them is no big deal.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  10. optimusmegas

    optimusmegas Target-Power-Titan-Prime-Battle-Master

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Posts:
    10,935
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +13,664
    Ebay:
    not really suspected criminals...they were terrorists. his closest friend was killed in front of him and wasn't he hoped up on some serum? he wasn't in the right state of mind. he's also put in an extremely stressful position as the new captain america as it is dealing with a huge threat and again just saw is best friend murdered...by terrorists. yeah...extreme methods and all that. he's an anti hero for sure. he's also a soldier and the smashers are enemy combatants taking super soldier serums.

    i'm not convinced
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. dinobot1

    dinobot1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Posts:
    1,039
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +1,863
    John also tried to kill Sam and Bucky when they came to diffuse the situation. He even lied to Omar’s family about avenging his death.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Hobbes-timus Prime

    Hobbes-timus Prime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Posts:
    4,959
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    342
    Likes:
    +7,856
    You might need to rewatch it. Walker is framed as a villain repeatedly. The show is not subtle about it.

    The Flag Smashers are the mission objective, but that's not the same as being the antagonist, IMO. Like, if this show was the movie Twister, the Flag Smashers are the tornadoes. Walker is Cary Elwes group of evil stormchasers.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  13. optimusmegas

    optimusmegas Target-Power-Titan-Prime-Battle-Master

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Posts:
    10,935
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +13,664
    Ebay:
    i don't need to rewatch it. it's not how i see it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Triceradon

    Triceradon Sunbow Delenda Est

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Posts:
    1,764
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +3,235
    Ironic. “He was on drugs, its ok to kill him” is an excuse usually reserved for condemning the one being arrested, not for defending the one doing the arrest
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. optimusmegas

    optimusmegas Target-Power-Titan-Prime-Battle-Master

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Posts:
    10,935
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +13,664
    Ebay:
    yawn
     
  16. theestampede

    theestampede Wandering Artist

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Posts:
    11,160
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +15,818
    This is the first time I’ve heard of a Fanfic Writer who actually understood storytelling and character development. I’d probably be willing to try reading some of his stuff, though I’d prefer to read something original rather than fanfic.


    Just an FYI, drug use and lack of malice aforethought do change how a defendant is sentenced in the court of law, though there are variations of how the rules are written in different jurisdictions. Either way, intent is a huge aspect of proving a case and there is a reason there is a difference between various degrees of murder and manslaughter. And that’s not even considering the difference in rules that apply to soldiers in the line of duty or in a war zone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  17. pluto

    pluto Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Posts:
    1,165
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Likes:
    +2,268
    This guy is somehow both pro john walker murdering some dude in the street and also pro KGB gulag so I reckon he doesn't have a consistent grip on reality let alone story telling.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  18. theestampede

    theestampede Wandering Artist

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Posts:
    11,160
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +15,818
    Did you literally just say he was pro-gulag? Wanting a complex full of people to not be destroyed isn’t pro-gulag, it’s pro-human. Some of those people in that building would have been innocent, if you agree with destroying it then you are the villainous one here.

    And frankly, calling someone pro-gulag to discredit their point of view isn’t just lacking in nuance, it’s legitimately despicable.
     
  19. User_93049

    User_93049 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Posts:
    15,329
    News Credits:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Likes:
    +10,375
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 4
  20. Nemesis Otaku

    Nemesis Otaku Why did I un-ironically call myself an otaku?

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Posts:
    5,918
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    Likes:
    +17,508
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    As per usual with MCU threads these days.
     
    • Like Like x 3