So G1 Megatron sending a message into the future seems oddly... seeing things ahead

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Proud Nintendo, Aug 22, 2021.

  1. Proud Nintendo

    Proud Nintendo Well-Known Member

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    Which if you go by the G1 cartoon, his plans were often foiled by his own short-sightedness. Granted, he was a typical Saturday Morning Cartoon villain who get defeated every week because we couldn't have the bad guys defeat the good guys outright. (They can get the upper hand for a brief period, but the good guys do win in the end) So here, him sending a message into the future. "if I don't win, go back in time and assassinate Optimus Prime for me." is really thinking ahead and covering his bets as BW Megatron said.

    I half expect in the Agenda Part 2, Ravage to add on...
    "I'm expected to believe you? My commander was a moron! He would've never done anything that intelligent!"
     
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  2. IMAINCORRIN121

    IMAINCORRIN121 Well-Known Member

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    i think it was hasbro running everything
     
  3. CyberstormSM

    CyberstormSM Turbo-Revvin' Young Punk

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    Hm, I suppose. Even Marvel Megatron wasn't that much of a schemer if I recall correctly.
    But I think Megatron might've been more competent in his off-screen/off-panel adventures. After all, he was the guy who almost nearly conquered Cybertron.
     
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  4. IMAINCORRIN121

    IMAINCORRIN121 Well-Known Member

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    I would call him a military's thug
     
  5. Agamus

    Agamus Not an Iguana

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    He and Galvatron came up with it together.
     
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  6. KFGatri

    KFGatri Madman with a Blue Box

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    Personally, I think the Schemes of the Week we saw in the cartoon were just diversions for the most part. Throwaway plans for the Autobots to discover and defeat, while Megatron focused on the big picture. While the Autobots were busy stopping giant purple griffins and Kremzeeks, Megatron was sending a steady supply of energon to Shockwave and solidifying his control over Cybertron. Sure, we occasionally saw the big gambits, like The Ultimate Doom, but overall if a plan seemed lame, it was deliberately so.
     
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  7. TLK Barricade

    TLK Barricade Keep calm and Hail Megatron.

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    Contrary to popular belief, Beast Wars and Beast Machines are not direct sequels to the Generation One cartoon. Yes, they borrow ideas from said cartoon, but they also reference the Marvel comics by occasionally mentioning Primus by name (remember, in the original show, the Quintessons were the ones who created the Transformers), and even incorporate new ideas, such as sparks, protoforms, and Cybertron's organic core (which the original show portrayed as being made of metal, just like the rest of the planet). The G1 'toon was no stranger to plot holes and inconsistencies, but these in particular make it impossible for them to be set in the same universe. Simply put, the Beast Era is actually an alternate timeline, which means the G1 Megatron we see in Beast Wars is not the same one who appeared in the original series. Therefore, his seemingly increased competence actually makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
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  8. Dark Starscream

    Dark Starscream With Headmaster Cobra Commander

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    I disagree. Beast Wars/Beast Machines fits very well into both the cartoon AND comic timelines.

    Just because they use "Primus" as a slang term doesn't mean it can't fit into cartoon continuity. BW/BM actually goes to lengths to make it fit, like referencing Starscream's ghost, Galvatron killing Starscream, the hate plague, Autobots eventually beating the Decepticons, humans' role in the Autobot victory, the Nemesis, the Ark in the mountain, appropriate Autobots and Decepticons aboard the Ark, the Matrix with Optimus Prime, the Autobot shuttle "not in the datatracks", the Key to Vector Sigma, etc... that's a LOT of G1 references the writers went to great lengths to tie-in without conflicting the cartoon.

    As for the comic, nothing was said that conflicted with G1 comic continuity. The terms "Primus" and the "Ark" are derived from the comic, even if they were never named in the cartoon. The writers even went as far as to say in an interview that the Vok is the Swarm from G2 made sentient.

    Not to mention, the Botcon comics even tied-in the Primus and Quintesson origins together. Just because the Quintessons built, enslaved, and sold some Transformers doesn't mean that they weren't using Vector Sigma to give them life, after enslaving the existing populace. The Quintessons may not even be native to Cybertron.
     
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  9. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    G1 had lasercores, which sounds like a much more pragmatic, scientific name for a spark, too.
     
  10. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    If we consider the 86 film as G1 canon, then it shows that Megatron could get ruthless and strategic when things got bad for the Decepticons.
     
  11. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

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    It definitely seems a discrepancy.

    Marvel Megatron, as written by Bob Budiansky, wasn't much of a planner. He was extremely powerful, he knew that physically he had few if any peers, and thus his plans rarely moved beyond: I'm strong, thus I will win. This is not a Megatron who would make such a plan, nor did the Decepticons at this time have the ability to travel into space. In contrast, Marvel Megatron as written by Furman still had this flaws of thinking himself unbeatable, but this version did make plans. He was a bit more of a schemer. Also, being on Cybertron and with all the Cybertronian tech, he did have the opportunity to do exactly this. (It being Furman's Marvel Megatron would also fit with Ravage being extremely loyal and able to speak.)

    Although Sunbow Megatron was beaten episode after episode, the Decepticons did slowly win the war as evident by the mounting amount of Energon on Cybertron and the planet being rebuild at the time of the movie. And he definitely was a schemer, but rarely did he move beyond plan of the week. More importantly, he never showed signs of learning from past mistakes: a lot of his plans could actually work and were thwarted by chance -- remove the chance, makes small changes and bingo. Despite the Decepticons being able to travel into space, this lack of learning makes it strange that he would have the foresight to plant this message.


    Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. The writers of the series were very clear that they took things from both the Sunbow cartoon and the Marvel comics, mixed them and even changed things. Like @TLK Barricade already mentioned, the result is that the G1 elements that Beast Wars references are recognisable as the G1 we knew (be it comics or cartoon), but it cannot be exclusively either. It appears to lean a bit more to the cartoon since that was the better known version, but at the same time it contradicts the cartoon. Sure, you can squint and reason things away, but that's attempting to make it fit and not the same as it clearly fits.

    Beast Wars is a sequel to a G1 that isn't quite the Sunbow cartoon and not quite the Marvel comics. It's its own thing. And likewise, the Megatron that left this message isn't the Marvel or Sunbow cartoon, but another version. Just like IDW and Dreamwave Megatron are different from the G1 we saw in the 80's.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
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  12. Insurgent

    Insurgent The Amazing Tango Mysterio

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    What if it was Shockwave's plan originally,, but because in the cartoon he's one of the most loyal soldiers, instead of doing the plan himself he told it Megatron who put it in motion when he woke up in 1984? After all, Shockwave in the toon did build the Chronosphere so he was already fiddling around with time travel.
     
  13. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Exactly

    And that’s the very reason it can’t not be directly tied to either ,because the G1 cartoon and the G1 comic can not be Reconciled as a single universe

    1. "Primus" Wasn’t used as a slang term , it was used in a biblical fashion

    2.Starscream's ghost used more of a g1 comic color scheme

    Yes there was.....or did you forget about Aunty....or was it spelled Auntie

    Either way, if it can be said that Beast wars Can tie to both the cartoon and the comic then it is NOT a direct sequel to either continuity
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
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  14. GeoSociety

    GeoSociety Quit

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    The bigger discrepancy in BW to me is how Earth was completely off limits to Transformers and human contact. Again, I know how BW isn't a direct 1:1 sequel to G1. In G1 S3 it seemed like the humans and transformers were building a decent intergalactic relationship spanning bases in different worlds and Cybertron.

    By that logic if the TF's who made Transwarp time travel a thing, wouldn't that apply to off-limiting time traveling to Cybertron in the past if anyone tried to assassinate OP or Mega? Please don't tell me aside from the golden disc, Transformers themselves never thought of an equivalent of "would you go back in time and kill Hitler?"
     
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  15. PrimeSmokescreen 04

    PrimeSmokescreen 04 Well-Known Member

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    Idk, Megatron became pretty competent between 1986 and 2005... I can see him recording that message shortly before the 86 movie began.
     
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  16. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Problem with that idea is that it doesn’t jive with real world facts or what we see and are told in beast wars

    The Golden Disk in question is from the Voyager space craft

    And from what we were told in the show it was launched soon after the Autobots and Decepticons woke up on earth and restarted the war......So that would have to be in 1984 or just soon after

    but Voyager was launched in 1977.......Seven years before the volcano irruption in the g1 timeline

    Also, Based on the visuals G1 Megatron inscribed the message on the disk just as it was passing Saturn

    well Voyager passed Saturn in 1980, for years before the autobots and decepticons woke up on earth

    For the record voyager 2 launched the same year and passed Saturn in 1981
     
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  17. Insurgent

    Insurgent The Amazing Tango Mysterio

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    I guess the Voyager probes were delayed and launched a few years later in the tf timeline? I always figured he did it sometime around S2 when Astrotrain was on earth, that's how he was able to get up into space. Maybe during one of his jaunts like they were on in the episode Cosmic Rust?
     
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  18. Dark Starscream

    Dark Starscream With Headmaster Cobra Commander

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    That's exactly what I was thinking.
     
  19. Dark Starscream

    Dark Starscream With Headmaster Cobra Commander

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    The point is, if it doesn't conflict with either continuity's established past, then you can't say it doesn't fit into either. It's up to the viewer to decide, which was the brilliance in the writing for the show.

    For example, BW states that the Autobots/Decepticons awaken in the Ark in 1984. This story fact lines up with both the G1 cartoon and comic continuities.

    To address your other issues:

    1. I don't remember Primus being used in a biblical fashion, but even if it was, this doesn't conflict the cartoon. The cartoon never needed to mention Primus. Who is the god of ET? Or the Gobots? God stories are not required. And like I said earlier, the Botcon comics easily tied the Quintessons with the Primus origin.

    2. The split-second of Starscream's coloring as a ghost doesn't prove anything.

    Auntie was not functioning after the crash until Huffer fixed her in 1984, so the BW characters not inferfacing with Auntie doesn't conflict with the comic.

    As for Teletraan One, there is no reason why the Ark can't/shouldn't have multiple interfaces. After Auntie was disabled in the comic, they had to interface with the Ark somehow...
     
  20. Beetle

    Beetle MACH Daddy

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    Maybe it was Voyager 3, 4, 5 or 6 (V'ger).


    (I mean we've had Trek-TF crossovers; so heck, why not?)
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021