Anyone know how to make your own 3p toys and sell them?

Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by Skylanderformer, Aug 20, 2021.

  1. RootNegative

    RootNegative Well-Known Member

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    As a mechanical engineer you do not need an engineering degree to design transformers. The designs are 100% done in CAD programs which is what engineering designers use. I've know those with and without a ME bachelors. I do think an ME degree is helpful to get a job doing that, depending on the company, but there is anything from a CAD certificate (about one year), while an associate usually takes two years.

    But I will say that before you chose a field that "sounds" cool, make sure you like doing the underlying work. Have you done stuff with CAD programs? And if you do like it/ are good at it there are probably places that pay better than Hasbro - transformers division. I love transformers as much as anyone here, and I'm sure I could get a job doing it if I wanted to. But I think keeping some things a hope is a good idea.
     
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  2. deaculpa

    deaculpa Stand Alone Complex

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    0B23672B-47CA-483A-9506-DD73C74ECBE4.jpeg
     
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  3. Kimosabi

    Kimosabi Well-Known Member

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    I'm not the greatest teacher, but I can at least set you on a good direction if you want to go about designing your own stuff. There's definitely a lot of information here to digest, but take your time to learn each one.

    Coming from a design engineer background, it's good to have a lot of passion to start. Here's a suggested path to learn how to make your own transformers, there's a lot of important things to learn, and you have time. The most important thing is to have a good mental process when things don't work. Engineering is a lot of trial and error, and just building experience. Learn why things work and why things don't, you'll have to experiment to really gain a good understanding. You'll unfortunately have to learn most of these on your own. Google and youtube are good friends. I find that Schools only teach you the basics and only scratch the surface of what you really need to know (not to say school is bad, but in the end, you need to be able to keep learning with/without school as you cannot be spoon fed information throughout your life if you are to get good at this).

    When things fail (they will fail), you'll have to ask, why did it fail? What is the root cause? What are the possible solutions? Observe and re-iterate. When you make improvements or changes, don't make too many, as it'll be difficult to determine what helped and what made it worse.

    Things that will help you learn how to design things:
    1. Mentality - Nothing ever ever works the first time ever. If it does, you got lucky. You just gotta figure out why it didn't work, determine the root cause and address it. It is easy to get discouraged, especially when you're on your 20th iteration and it's just not working right, then just ask for someone else's perspective. You'll get a lot of criticisms, but you have to be able to filter out constructive (usually if the person is good they'll give suggestions) vs just bashing (this sucks but it's reality).

    2. Learn a CAD software - Like really learn how to do complex shape, people faces, torso's, parts, assemblies, surfaces, drawings. Practice, Practice, Practice. Try making the same shape using the different tools in the CAD software you're using i.e. make a box using 6 different tools each time, sounds dumb, but it'll familiarize you with the CAD software as you'll have to use multiple tools to design what you want. If you're planning on doing some aspect of design engineering, the top two professional CAD packages to learn is Dassault Catia and Siemens UX. The automotive field and aerospace use either or of these CAD packages. Siemens NX offers a mostly fully featured student license, which is great as it also allows you to export to CNC machines and I believe 3d printers as well (not 100% sure). They are definitely harder to learn on vs Solidworks, but the payoff is greater in the long run.

    3. Learn tolerances (it's not super hard, you just need to wrap your head around a few concepts)- the hardest and most critical about designing an assembly (your final product made up of smaller parts) are tolerances. This is critical for your joints working properly. In case you don't know, a tolerance is the dimensional range your part has for a specific feature as there is no such thing as a perfect part.

    3.1. Learn what a tolerance is, and how to derive them (using 3 sigma) and learn to use them. This is done practically through the measurement of many parts.

    3.2. ***VERY IMPORTANT*** Learn how to perform a tolerance stack, RSS (root sum squared) is a good method to use, vs hard stack (straight up adding and subtracting variances). Learn what an interference fit (you want this for a proper tight joint) is, vs clearance fit (this causes loose joints). Making a joint that is "just right" like not too loose and not too tight take trial and error. but once you figure out the right fitment, its easy to replicate.

    Example: A hole your peg plugs into is not exactly Ø5mm. Due to a number of factors that hole has a normal size of Ø5 ± 0.5 mm. The size of that hole ranges from 4.5mm to 5.5mm. On top of that the peg you design also varies in size, so now you have figure out how to make that peg fit in the hole most of the time.

    3.3. Learn what affects tolerances:

    3.3.1 manufacturing process: This is what's going to affect your tolerances the most, even when 3d printing. SLA, vs FDM vs injection molding (hot vs cold runners). Also good quality tooling (the stuff that makes your parts) affects tolerances. i.e. flashing can be reduced in a good quality tool, but those are expensive, and often run in the mid 5-digit to lower 6-digit price ranges for injection molding. Sometimes you want the "perfect" tolerance fit, but you're limited by your manufacturing capabilities or even cost.

    3.3.2 material type, different materials have different ranges of tolerances, and molding characteristics and properties. i.e. metal vs plastic gives you a different control range.

    3.3.3. shape of your feature: circles are hard to make consistently circular vs a flat wall
    3.3.3. size of your feature: a flat wall of 5mm will have inherently smaller variances in flatness shape tolerances vs a flat wall 100mm in length.

    Good luck in your endeavour!
     
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  4. Liampope

    Liampope Well-Known Member

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    I'd question if straight Mechanical Engineering is the right choice. You'll spend most of your time on thermodynamics and other hard maths and physics subjects that have little to no relevance to designing toys or similar products!

    If you do do college/degree level study, by no means essential, but very useful, I'd suggest something more product design related. Then you'd focus more on the relevant creative/artistic disciplines, design, prototyping, manufacturing, etc.

    Most important if you're passionate about this field is to make it your hobby on the side during your formal education...

    Learn 3d modelling/sculpting on free packages like Blender. When you're in college ask about a cheap student license for the professional/industrial stuff like Solidworks, etc and play with those.

    Draw! Get good at manual drawing, sketching and rendering. Both technical and artistic. Then you can play around with early designs and concepts and communicate them to others.

    Make stuff! Learn manual crafting and fabricating skills. Look at the sort of things people do in the customisation section. Learn about 3d printing equipment and workflow from design to finishing.

    If by the time you finish formal education you can 3d model, draw and make a custom figure by hand, you'll have a great toolbox to get started. Or even to get a job in a company where you will learn even more and be in an even better position to start your own enterprise later. Maybe you've read on here about how one of the Takara Masterpiece designers got his job on the back of a custom Arcee figure he made from scratch?

    The post above mine is full of good advice, but I'd say you don't need to look into engineering tolerances, etc right now! That's for a bit later. At your age start with the basics above and get on the right path. Most important of all you'll get to find out if this is something you enjoy and really want to do later.

    Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
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  5. octobotimus

    octobotimus Bad company ruins good morals

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    Could always make your own designs and contact a 3rd party about it, if your a designer. Just an option. Granted not to in the know about how that would work.
     
  6. stinkyshawn

    stinkyshawn Well-Known Member

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    always hear wat the fans want..:) 
     
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  7. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    What it does is give you some sort of business sense, though. A lot of times this question or similar gets asked, people are loftily dreaming of the end goal, without realizing all the nitty-gritty steps in between.

    You can start a business without the proper training, but if you do so with naught but pipe dreams and a hope, you're going to find that pursuit awfully difficult.

    And stay on the periphery of that, but respond merely to valid critiques, rather than whims and demands. The latter path leads only to madness and suffering.
     
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  8. lord ginrai

    lord ginrai D-list Decepticon

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    Keep in mind that creating unauthorized merchandise based on the Transformers brand infringes on Hasbro’s intellectual property.

    They get away with it in China, but if you’d attempt anything of the sort on American soil, But it would be very risky to do if you’re on American soil.

    Although, having said that, that David Lee guy making Beast Wars figures seems to be getting away with it for now.
    In fact, he might be a good person to ask your questions to as well:
    David Lee Beast Wars Inferno, Terrorsaur, & others
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
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  9. Dutchy79

    Dutchy79 Well-Known Member

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    Wow you buck in the house LOL

    Ideal age to start asking for questions and learn, can not say anything more as to what others said.
    Take as many art and enginering classes as you can, study every aspect of it.
    Computers are 100% the way to go and you are young so you can grow with the field.
    You do not need papers to make it but they do help to open a lot of doors, do not drop out of school young man.
    Finish it and good luck.
     
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  10. Skylanderformer

    Skylanderformer (yells)

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    I did have a system to avoid some copyright claims. Make an oc, the release multiple color variants to justify it's not an exact copy of Hasbro's property. And the best part is it offers limitless redeco potential. I love all the support you people have given me, it's amazing. I have tried a low level cad before, and it...was hella hard. More practice over the school year. The things I was going to start with conversion kits. Ultra magnus to nova prime, arcee to elita one, etc. Seems like fun.
     
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  11. Hoffman

    Hoffman Well-Known Member

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    I think that's a great way to start. Start by making kits that YOU would like to see. That will keep you motivated and engaged.

    Once you get the process worked out, you can expand to small scale production. You can invest in a 3d printer, or even try doing self-molding and do some small 'garage kit' runs. If they're decent enough, you will get people buying them.
     
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  12. Skylanderformer

    Skylanderformer (yells)

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    Stuff I really want to see? Really rarely seen characters from g1, especially Japan. Sky shadow, blue bachus ( I gotta be butchering that), Cryotek. Number one goal for right now, a Simpsons sedan transformer. It's gotta be a good starting point.
     
  13. Bumblemus Prime

    Bumblemus Prime Cracked in the head

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    If you go over to Radicons Customs, you'll find there's a ton of people doing 3D printed stuff, most notably upgrade kits & heads that can be bought through Shapeways. Every once in a while someone makes a whole-ass Transformer out of 3D parts. Bobby Skullface reviewed one:



    I see a pretty huge untapped market in face/head/feature swaps for Siege figures. Siege figures are so great but they are all strictly G1--so you might make a kit that gave Kingdom Rodimus an IDW Rodimus head & alt hands or something. (This is a bad example, as there are two third-party IDW Rodimii out there that are still relatively easy to find, but you get me). The other option might be upgrades for Legends figures, since that market hasn't been nearly as saturated as the CHUG/MP markets. Tese are smaller pieces, and I believe upgrades and accessories are perfectly legal to make and sell in the US without being part of Hasbro--or a third-party company, for that matter. It makes me feel like an old-timer now, but that's what Fansproject was, starting out--one or two upgrade kits, including what seemed like a massively ambitious project to make the City Commander armor. Ah, them days..

    Most people start by designing upgrade kits in CAD files like those on Shapeways. Some of the vendors I've bought from on Shapeways a lot are Bonnatron's Tinkering Shed and Steam Shield's Bot Foundry. If you get a 3D printer of your own, the world is yours, because there are a hell of a lot more files out there you can buy and print than there are vendors who will print files for you.

    Other small operations, as far as I can tell, probably cast industrial-grade resin in poured silicon molds via a pressure pot--at least that's what my Renderform pieces seem to be made out of. This is way more work with your hands, and Venksta was notorious for advertising kits that were much more popular than he could realistically produce with that method, so be careful.
     
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  14. Convotron

    Convotron Well-Known Member

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    Great advice in the discussion. We're fortunate to have a community that will come together to lift up those who want to pursue paths like this.

    As a non professional in the toy manufacturing industry, I can't offer any wisdom earned by personal experience but I do suggest learning all you can about all facets of not just the business you wish to create but the industry and related industries. You never know when extra knowledge will benefit you.

    I recall watching an interview with a designer from Hasbro and they mentioned that they had to learn about materials science when they started to work in designing TF toys. It's one thing to design something digitally but you have to keep in mind the behavior and characteristics of the various options you have for materials that you could make the products out of. Something can work great in a modeling program but if you use sub optimal materials to construct it, you're going to run into significant problems that could turn you around back to the drawing board.
     
  15. Skylanderformer

    Skylanderformer (yells)

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    Amazing support from all of you. This is warming my heart so much. Also, I really don't like legends class figures. To small for my taste. Personally I like deluxe classes. Small enough to be easy to build, big enough to be well posed. One of the favorite figures I own is earthrise counterpunch.
     
  16. Kimosabi

    Kimosabi Well-Known Member

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    Also, if you are in the USA, it would be worth trying to pick up a plastic injection guide model. In this case, it's a pencil holder that shows molding best practice and manufacturing techniques.

    Link to pick one up as well as explain all the features:
    Free Injection Molded Tool for Engineers

    Also, if you want to see a really good example of a wide range of plastic injection techniques, pick up a Gundam Real Grade (any of them works) . There are so many techniques for molding that you can use them for training.
     
  17. echotransformer

    echotransformer Well-Known Member

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    Just a quick note--the career known as "Industrial Designer" is a good option if you're interested in designing and developing toys, depending on the training, the skills can span both the business and product development. Always nice to see people looking to create!
     
  18. Skylanderformer

    Skylanderformer (yells)

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    Taking notes here. Quick disclaimer. I've never built a model kit in my life. Should be fun. Waiting to do lunch till I have some kind of job. Right now I'm getting paid USD$20 a week, which is pathetic compared to even minimum wage.
     
  19. Kimosabi

    Kimosabi Well-Known Member

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    The budget thing will teach patience. But the gundams are all snap together, no glue needed. It's a good lesson in good documentation.
     
  20. Bumblemus Prime

    Bumblemus Prime Cracked in the head

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    Definitely stick some models together. When you can scrape it together, get an automatic center punch, small screwdrivers, and other tools and start taking Transformers apart.