Posting on a message board is quick and easy unless you’re making a wall of text.   But with writing there’s a lot that goes into it that could take up a good portion of your day. A lot of creative energy is involved with it.

 

Let's try this one time and for me this is the last time I'm going to answer you. Just remember : I didn't "quote" you initially so I don't understand why you got so triggered. Sheesh.

1. no, Skywarp was black with purple hands,feet and some stripes (And as I pointed out bombshell shared the same color palette)

Thundercrack was primarily blue as was Scourge
I never implied that they were.....what’s your point?

Reply: My point is very simple Starscream was never close to the other two original seekers. This was very evident through the G1 toon. I'll give you one episode. ONE only - "Fire in the Mountain".

Going by that it is very OBVIOUS that after the battle of Autobot City, Screamer would use the opportunity to get rid of all of his rivals including the original two: Thundercracker and Skywarp. Their "main colours" correspond to those of Cyclonus and Scourge but in different shades. Of course, you can argue its "coincidental" but why couldn't Hasbro or the producers choose other colours? Heck, I would have made them black and red to be more intimidating.

So, you can’t provide evidence to back up your claim?

Reply: That is a very LAZY reply. Tbh I really EXPECTED better. Here I'll throw you a bone. FFOD Part 1 where Cyclonus gave a speech about "Decepticons once held a quadrant through terror" speech and he goes on to try to raise morale of the Decepticons. That's just ONE example of "remembering" their previous lives. I honestly doubt the Insecticons would sprout such stuff/rhetoric and go about trying to revive the Decepticon Empire. Bombshell/Cyclonus would simply fly off after the battle with Unicron.

3. Nothing they said implied knowledge of a personal nature, nothing of their original personalities truly bled through ......not even the “loyalty” so many like to point out
which could have easily been hard wired into them by Unicron, not to mention that Scourge doesn’t really fit the definition of being loyal as seen in season 3

look I’m not trying to say your dead wrong to believe what you do, but just about all the Empirical evidence point into the direction that they were new personalities inhabiting old bodies .....just look at the dialog in the film

I will provide you with a new body, and New Troops to command

Not new bodies for your troops

Even if you look at the early drafts of the film they were originally intended to be Ancient Deceptacon souls/Sparks given new life by Unicron......there was no original intention to have Scourge and Cyclonus be resurrected known characters

4. Reply:: Er, did you know some of the basics characteristics of the original G1 characters? Its GREAT that you mention Scourge not being loyal or committed because the original Thundercracker was uncommitted to the Decepticon cause in the original G1 Universe by Marvel. This was then built on in the DW (this was an easter egg on one of the covers where he fought one Autobot who had similar issues) and IDW comics (hint: Thundercracker gets a dog as a REWARD for...I suggest you find out yourself). What I'm SAYING is that Scourge's behavior was consistent with Thundercracker.

Look, if you want to believe that Cyclonus and Scourge were rebuilt from space junk or whatever, it's fine but what I don't appreciate is your tone. At the end of the day, we're just having a discussion over a toon that has serious continuity issues and not something "tighter" in terms of writing like manga or anime like "Berserk" or "One Piece".

Tbh I don't really care who originally Cyclonus and Scourge were and I still don't.

That's good enough for me and not an essay filled with venom and bile. that I got.

Well, in my part of the wold. kids are into Cyberverse and they seem to be buying more of them rather than the other mainline stiff like Kingdom.

And neither do I. I just thought I shared some of my thoughts...didn't expect to be er. "attacked"...this won't have happened a few years back. This feels so surreal like I'm on the other boards like a TMNT or Power Rangers toy board! LOL!

 

I dont really try to make sense of who became who in the movie. HOWEVER I see it as Scourge and Cyclonus replaced Thundercracker and Skywarp why?

Decepticon Planes in the 1985 vs. 1986 catalog. Scourge and Cyclonus replaced Thundercracker and Skywarp on the toy shelf

Oh and just an FYI, the Insecticons were still available for sale and listed in the 1986 catalog

 

LP, concerning Scourge's mannerism, yup. He does give of a TC vibe concerning his "steadfast" loyalty to the cause. FitM episode really emphasized on his "putrid traitorous" actions.

In S3, iirc, Cyclonus reminded him how to keep his troops in line. Also, Sw no doubt is a diehard loyalist (as stupid as Lugnut? ). And Cyclonus is a diehard loyalist. I too get a SW vibe from him.

And again, Scourge has a squad of look a likes, similar to Shrapnel's cloning abilities or was it an inherent ability of all 3 Insecticons (?) so many that it's hard to keep track of 

It's turning my brain into mush 

It really is a never ending story.

 

Eh, to me Cyclonus is Skywarp and Scourge is Thundercracker. As for insecticons I always assumed that some of their clones are what were turned into the sweeps and that the damage Shrapnel/Bombshell/ Kickback had was repairable.

 

Lol which goes along with my toy theory listed 2 posts up

When in doubt, always trust the toys

 

Yup, the Insecticons were still being marketed - while TC and SW were being "dropped".

Yeah, I won't read too much into this either but Cyclonus and Scourge really do give off the Skywarp and Thundercracker vibe - especially if one is an old-school fan that grew up with the toon, comics, etc. I had the opportunity to read both the US and UK comics when they were in publication.

 

They did, though. Skywarp and Thundercracker didn't have a monopoly on purple and blue. Cyclonus and Scourge's colour schemes are clearly not the same as the previous Seekers, but purple is a pretty Decepticon-y colour and blue is not far off whilst still being different enough to not be redundant. (bearing in mind that the Galvatron toy was still primarily grey, so there was still a good spectrum of colours across the main bad guys even if the final movie model rendered him primarily purple)

This is even more obvious when looking at the new-mould Autobots who likewise had very "block colour" palettes rather than the more contrast-filled and primary schemes of previous Autobots. People only draw parallels in the most superficial way, but we know Cyclonus and Scourge were still designed entirely independent of whoever they were made from (originally conceived as long-dead Decepticon warriors reborn from destroyed monuments) so the colour argument really has no legs.

Is he, though? He repaired Megatron in the first episode, but where has he ever shown loyalty to Cyclonus' level? I can't imagine Skywarp taking Megatron to therapy purely for the latter's benefit. (even if it didn't work out that way  )

I mean, by that metric Rodimus Prime is a rebuilt Optimus Prime.  

 

I mean, think of it this way: who is more loyal, Soundwave or Skywarp? Most would say Soundwave. Now ask who is more loyal, Soundwave or Cyclonus?

"Loyalty" is hardly a defining trait of Skywarp or much of an extant one at that, and certainly not unique to the character enough that it'd inform his personality as Cyclonus. Cyclonus is also intelligent, even somewhat noble (enough to respect Magnus as a fellow soldier) and has a sophistication that is definitely not part of Skywarp, who at best is kind of just a dumb thug.

 

Again, like I said, I am in no way triggered

I just replied to your post , with all the politeness in the world, and may have pointed out some issues I saw with what you posted

if you see that as being triggered then you are far too sensitive

No disrespect but they seem to be going off on a tangent

Starscream and his relationship with the other seekers was never part of this conversation

And it seems to me that Starscream only got rid of the very injured and dieing not all his rivals

And I repeat

Cyclonus was purple and silver.....No Black or shade of Black what so ever




as you can see, outside his landing gear mid section of his chest (Which I really can’t see an argument saying that should count) Skywarp "main colours" do Not correspond to those of Cyclonus at all

It really wasn’t a reply it was a legitimate question, you made a claim and then you seem to suggest that others are such as myself should investigate your claim to find the answer

You call that a bone doesn’t even seem like a scrap of of a biscuit

There’s nothing there about their previous lives at all, all you heard from him was a recital of historical facts that anybody could’ve warned him play a simple hook up to a historical database computer

’
You’re right about that, but neither with Skywarp

He had no leadership skills what do ever, no knowledge about how to motivate Troops that have reached a level of despair that they were willing to give up and kill each other

In fact Skywarp would be in the middle Of all the internal sightings trying to steal energy from any weaker decepticon he could find

which only serves to show that Cyclonus had no connection to the previous life his body may have had whom ever it was

He was an entirely new person

Thank you very much for helping my argument

yep, but my guess is that you don’t completely or will be useing outside sources.....let’s see if I’m right

yep I was right, outside source

1) that was information that was mention in Thundercrackers toy and marvel bios

2) it was something that was never really touched upon in any story marvel printed

3) the cartoon writers hardly ever Followed the original bios anyway

Cartoon Thundercracker was almost the perfect Soldier, outside of 1 sarcastic comment abd his one example of a rivalry with Starscream he showed no commitment issues with the decepticon cause...... and he certainly never showed any signs he wanted the leadership for himself

So all of that was irrelevant information to this particular topic because Scourge's behavior was consistent with Thundercracker.

you find out yourself). What I'm SAYING is that Scourge's behavior was completely Inconsistent with that of the depiction of cartoon Thundercracker.

I suggest you try to find evidence that is not from an outside source

Look I’m not sure what tone you’re getting or you feel is being conveyed by me......I know I haven’t said anything rude or insulting

But if you feel insulted by me in anyway I humbly apologize because that was never my intent

I was simply replying to what I felt were “holes” in what you were presenting......For example the idea that the color schemes were a match when they clearly are not

Bike and venom..... attacked,Really?

I’m going to offer an apology again just because I don’t want anyone feeling hurt but to tell you the truth I think you are being very oversensitive

 

I agree as much. Hence the FB meme. It really is open to interpretation unless the production bible states it definitely. 

 

yes, Scourge and Cyclonus replace thundercracker and Skywarp in the toy catalog......why, because they fit the size class

Think about it, Scourge isint even a plane

And yes the Insecticons were still being marketed, because they weren’t 1984 figures

Hasbro gave the ok to kill them off but still marketed them in the catalog because with out them the decepticons catalog would have been pretty thin tgat year with out them

likewise take note that the conehead seekers are also seen in that catalog......most people forget that the coneheads were killed during the attack on Unicron as the ok to kill them was given by Hasbro

the bottom line is that The catalog offers absolutely no substantial evidence for either argument and here’s why

The original script for the film depicted the deaths of many of the 84/85 characters ......but Scourge,Cyclonus and the Sweeps/Armada look alikes We’re not supposed to be resurrected versions of any of the characters that we knew from 84 and 85

They were supposed to be ancient Deceptacon’s giving new life/bodies

so the Choice to exclude certain characters from the catalog was made long before the revisions to the script were made

To make it simple.......the toy placement in the catalogs was already decided before they changed the script and used 84/85 characters as the base bodies for the new troops

So this toy catalog theory doesn’t really hold much water

Die hard loyalist to Megatron sure, but to the cause..... I’m not so certain

Skywarp just came off as a guy that just like to hurt others....and Megatron gave him carte blanche to do so....But he was certainly stupid

Certainly a diehard loyalty is to the cause more than to any one person ,As his actions in Web world showed, And he was far from stupid

I really Don’t see how so many people get a warp vibe from him

Likewise when it comes to TC snd Source, in both cases They barely have any superficial characteristics between them

 

Exactly

And that’s also exactly why any personality trait argument or argument that they may have remember their old life’s also has no legs

because the characters of Scourge and Cyclonus were originally conceived and written completely independent of the older characters

The season 3 story writers were working independent of the movie writers with little to no communication with the film writers

And to make matters more complicated that were working on season 3 at the same time the film was being made

It’s the reason why we see a full army of CyberTron clonus copies b 5FoD and other s3 episodes...


it wasn’t an animation error it was the result of the poor communications between both production teams, it was the result of the season 3 5FoD creators not being told that the idea of Cyclonus having his own “armada” of copies had been dropped

Likewise I seriously doubt they were told that it had been decided to make Scourge and Cyclonus reformated from any former characters since that revision had been made after S3 was already in production

So any similar characteristics that people seem to think were carried over Seems to be more a case of reading more into something then was really there

 

That is why he is one of my fav Decepticon 2nd in commands, at least until the JP Hm. I know, to sell toys, the JP team didn't kill him off but relegating them into idjit peons......... 

 

…so I’m going to post this for anyone who thinks that the coneheads were outright killed by Unicron by swallowing/eating them.



…now I’m to leave this here…Unicron swallowing/eating Galvatron.



…so Hot Rod was fighting Galvatron’s ghost?

Nuff said.

 

I don’t disagree with you their

I don’t know if it was the translation but I always felt that both of the lieutenants were given a serious raw deal with the Japanese headmasters

Wow, really..... “ nuff said”......So tell me who is the one of us with the bad “tone” again?

anyway that was such a bad comparison in how both scenes were depicted , to use your words... I expected much better then that

they fly into his mouth




They collide with each other the inner walls/teeth and explode





While Unicron closes his mouth and chomps them




Really a very far cry for what we saw with Galvatrons free fall, Unicron Swallowed Galvatron like a pill and the coneheads like a hotdog, And that’s not even accounting for the explosions we see as he chews down

Sorry buddy but that wasn’t even a nice try, But feel free to try again if you like

Now that’s not to say that it is completely impossible for them to have survived that, but considering the tone of the film and the fact that the coneheads were on Hasbros kill list, Seems to me that it was the original intent to kill off these characters in that scene

 

Looks like I have to retract the statement about not replying but oh well.

Oh wow, I didn't even want to point this out but did you even notice that afterburners of the cloneheads while they were flying towards Unicron were the SAME colours as the so-called explosions? Very COOL of you not to mention that. The Coneheads could have crashed and the afterburner trails could have been all over the place. And what's this...last one of the coneheads was still alive in FFOD. So even if one conehead survived then not ALL 3 died. So are you going to pick and choose to fit your narrative? No body = no proof of dead unless there's a marker like Huffer and Bluestreak.

Your arguments about "class sizes" in the '86 catalogue is also flawed. Class size? Then pray tell why isn't Rodimus and Wreck-gar "lumped" together? Or what about Punch?

So why weren't Cyclonus and Scourge been in "separate space" by themselves instead of lumping them with the jets? Play pattern? Well, that didn't stop Hasbro from giving Rodimus and Wreck-gar their own slots - their only gimmicks were only transforming unlike the Headmasters etc.

Quit forcing folks into believing your narrative on a toon that has almost no consistency in writing and let folks believe whoever Cyclonus and Scourge were.

Well, Split...Skywarp may be the dumb type but G1 Soundwave was more of an opportunist rather than loyal as mentioned in his bios. Maybe when he helped Megatron onto Astrotrain, he was thinking it was to gain more favo but subsequently did nothing because the majority won in the decision to throw the injured and dead overboard - very in line with his character.

Other than that, I don't have any qualms with any of the issues you raised...diplomatically.  

 

"Think about it" lol, what part of I don't care who became who did you not read in my post?

Imma gonna stick with Toylogic.

Scourge and Cyclonus replaced Thundercracker and Skywarp as Decepticon Planes on the store shelves in 1986.

Toylogic!!!!

 

no surprise

I really don’t see the point your trying to make nor what you wouldn’t want to mention it

it’s no surprise to me that the explosions color patterns would be similar or exactly the same color of their afterburner trails.......since it would be pretty logical to believe the explosions were caused by their afterburners being crushed

like I said before we could argue they survived, but that wasn’t the point I was trying to make, I was simply trying to point out what the film makers seemed to be conveying with that scene and how it pertained to the toy catalog ....I’m not exactly sure how you missed that

actully I do believe that 2 of the coneheads appear in 5FoD, when Blasters team goes to carbombya......but that’s completely irelevent to the point I was trying to make

I’m not arguing about the continuity of the series, I’m talking about the choices that went into the production of the film ,s3 and toy catalog

You’re hilarious dude your feelings are so hurt from our earlier conversation that you’re not even paying attention to what you’re reading

If it was so flawed you might’ve actually been able to present something to counter it or at least some better questions

Punch/Counterpunch (FYI 1987 not 86) wasn’t lumped in with other characters because he was a new gimmick toy for the year, the first figure to have 2 robot modes.....all gimmicks figures were either given their own slot or lumped in with others of their kind/size like they did with adding Octane to the triple changes of the previous year.

Wreck-Gar hit his own space because he was marketed as part of a Sub-Group as was the Sharkticon.......Subgroups always got their own section......At least up until the later years

The reason why Rodimus wasn’t lumped in with any other characters should be obvious, his name ended with Prime, he was the new leader..

Cyclonus and Scourge weren’t in a "separate space" was because one was a plane, The other a A futuristic Covercraft...in both the same size and price points at the other jets and weren’t considered to be a subgroup.......I guess they just didn’t see the point of giving them their own separate section

Unlike the two separate sets of Insecticons that were in 2 different sizes and I believe price

Just hilarious....I haven’t told anybody what to believe I simply reported on the facts

Even though you misunderstood my intent I already apologized to you for how you receive my earlier reply’s...... Quit taking everything so personal simply because someone question/Challenge your reasoning with actual facts .....And that is pretty much how they started when I challenged your “color palette” theroy ....Get over yourself

Such behavior was never seen or even hinted at in the cartoon

While I cannot say what you suggest is impossible you can’t claim it’s in line with his character because what’s in the comic bio doesn’t pertain to his Depiction in the cartoon

your mixing source materials and in a lot of cases the characters described in either the tech specs or comic bios are completely different then we got in the cartoon abd Soundwave is one of those cases

pointing out personality traits from the spec/marvel bios when it pertains to a conversation about cartoon Soundwave is flawed

Well your words seem to imply that your toy logic informed or affected the fiction, If that was not your intent you have my sincere apologies for my misunderstanding