Well TF Wiki specifically states that the engineering is the only thing they share, and that the actual molds are unique, so that's what I'm going by.

 

It really isnt bad, its just compromised. If you were asked to do a cartoon accurate Bumblebee in both modes without a frame of reference to plagiarize ideas from how would you do? How would you fare on a deadline? Its an incredible work of engineering to get a robot from the size of the alt mode to what it was, there is literally so much packed into the alt mode its amazing. Could they do better? Of course, this is why we got MP-1, MP-10 and MP-44, its why we got MP-3, MP-11 and MP-52 and of course MP-5 was literally tragic but Mp-36 the work of a mad genius.

Engineering wise its fantastic, aesthetics are subjective.

 

Semantics, pretty certain Bumblebee and Cliffjumper shared most of a mold, all the internals, legs, arms and the like would be from the same mold. Only the body panels and face would be different.

 

Well here's what the wiki says:

Though broadly similar in construction to Bumblebee and commonly called a redeco/retool of him by fans, Cliffjumper is actually an entirely different mold that just uses the same transformation scheme.


I don't have the molds to compare, and you didn't post any pictures comparing what parts are the same and what parts are different, so Idaknow what to tell you other than take it up with whoever wrote the wiki, I guess.

 

The main body of the the car/bot is completely different from bee to cj. Those molds are not exactly the same. The factory would literally have to have seperate physical molds to cast each figure. Now for hardware transformation and the like...idk. only have bee so cant compare

 

actually there is quite a bit of difference, the arms have a mold extension behind the rear wheels and the legs appear to be more narrow, which might be the camera angle or a running change in the molds since the details on the upper legs are sharper as well.

 

You guys are going to get us to 100 pages before we see a painted sample lol

 

Thats the keychain Bumblebee, it was retooled and likely suffered mold degradation, legs on the g1 BB & CJ look identical on like for like as I see, though you are quite right, the arms do have an extended running board.

 

just 100? figuring on 150 at least, see how far we can delve into nonsense.

 

Remoulding vs brand new design is always a tricky thing. It comes down to practicalities, costs, and what you can get away with. There are cases where just reusing everything makes sense and times when they can get away with a few new parts. Seekers are obviously just gonna be duplicated with new paint, while Coneheads will likely use a heap of common parts.
Then you get scenarios where remoulding is a shortcut, without putting enough effort in and the end results suffer. Sideswipe and Red Alert, Trailbreaker and Hoist are examples of this. They both really need designs that are almost completely unique.
A perfect example of this is the tease of the so-called "MP" Nightbird. They basically repainted the Arcee mould, gave it a new head, sculpted some new chest & waist details, threw in some new accessories and called it a day. The result is a figure who's 90% re-used parts, and is also 90% inaccurate to the source. The Takara devotees praise it anyway because... I dunno... Takara can do no wrong with them?... but it feels lazy. They try and pass it off by saying it's a homage to the Legends toy, but copying a 2015 mainline shelf hanger in the MP line makes little sense. It's a lazy cash-grab.
VS

Cliffjumper is one of those who falls somewhere between the Coneheads "it's okay to remould" and the TB/Hoist "it really could benefit from a unique design". It can successfully work either way, but you have to put the time and effort in. Given how much negative feedback Bumblebee's gotten for his back and even worse his feet, it's a missed opportunity to take those learnings on board and do things better. But, Takara being Takara, they are always going to do their own thing and ignore their critics.

Ironically, my favourite Bee and Cliff, at least for now, is probably NewAges latest effort. Yeah they have a backpack, but it's a clean, solid backpack instead of a mass of panels piled together, and yes, they have a quarter of the roof hanging off the heels, but these are insanely tiny figures and the feet still look better than 45's. They're waist-high on MP Rumble.



With all that, I just don't see the appeal in Takara's recent efforts. I just did a count and since MP-36, they've only had three figures I wanted, and one of those was a BeastWars figure I only got because DInosaurs are cool.

 

Ohhhh, we'll be well into pg200 and 2023 before we see color pics, as well as a revised mold. This is Fanstoys we're talking about!!!

 

MP Nightbird is Takara testing the effectiveness of their Kool-Aid. “Oh, it’s so beautiful. If you blur your vision and stand 10 feet away, it looks so cartoon accurate.”

 

Just looking at pics of this last night thinkin "i like nightbird enough to add her to my collection even tho she's not exactly a favorite BUT its just an arcee repaint. Why couldn't they just do her non transforming?"

Edit: not to get off topic 

 

Actually, I am just envious. Whatever they have those people drinking to create Takara, FT, XTB,…etc. zombies, makes me wish I could pick up some of that stuff. Wouldn’t have so many disappointed people in my life.



Edit: I mentioned FT, we’re back on topic.

 

Long as its grape flavored im in.

 

bee v2 feels like dollar store crap so really could be real  

 

Glad I left mp. This thing looks like Swiss cheese’s butthole from the back, someone should make gap/screw hole fillers.

 

Strange, but MP45 has really grown on me over time. Not the best figure by any means, but it has its charms, and I'm not sure FT are going to risk the wrath of Takara with their own version of Bee. Also, I'm quite looking forward to the Nightbird repaint as well. Again, it's not perfect, but I'm always up for more Decepticons, and let's face it: it could be a very long time before we get anything similar.

 

Maybe they should make a nice partsforming turtleshell hunchback to stick on it, so it can look as good as a non-MP figure.

 

MP-45 is fine if you look at it straight on and looks good on a shelf but the fiddly back and bits make it look like Unicron is reformatting him into a Bayverse bot (Might be cross-merchandising. Smart Takara!). I would fine with MP Nightbird also if I wanted that character. I don’t care about what people like but be consistent in criticism.

What gets me is how dishonest people are in their critiques. Takara fanboys constantly harp about toon-accuracy but then sing praises about how amazing MP Nightbird looks; XTB drones criticize other’s QC problems but when Locke implodes on contact, they just pretend that it didn’t happen. Those are just 2 examples but most companies have their zealots. It’s just dumb to be so blindly loyal, unless they are paying you (@divinecomedy, you FT-underwear-wearing simp).