It's a shitty movie dude, this isn't the hill you wanna die on.

 

Well isn't that some circular logic? Either they didn't watch it, or they only watched it to justify their hate. I'm glad you determined that no matter what people must've been unfair to the movie, leaving no possibility for it just being a shit film nobody liked.

I mean, yeah, if Snake-Eyes literally does not appear until the last second in a movie called Snake-Eyes, that's pretty piss-poor quality. Even bad movies at least deliver on their title.

Also you're acting like the movie isn't shit for a multitude of other reasons.

 

I was under the assumption that the word "IF" at the beginning of the sentence would be grammatically comprehended.

 

I guess given how there are people in 2021 still mostly in denial about the Bay movies it shouldn't be too shocking that people like that will exist for other movies too.

 

Its pains to be a bay fan sometimes.

 

What I'm saying is that both the final design and the original design have all the features the original Sonic had. Blue fur, big eyes, tennis shoes, the "hairstyle", etc. It wasn't a matter of the ugly design not being accurate or failing to look like the character...the ugly design was still immediately recognizable as the character. It was a matter of people being creeped out by the uncanny valley effect. Yes, the final design does look more like game Sonic than the ugly design did, but in-theory there are other ways they could have styled him to solve the uncanny valley effect.

I don't think that was a matter of "it's good because it looks like the original", it was a matter of "it's good because it doesn't look creepy".

I don't think it's fair to compare Starscream's robot design (easily one of the more iconic designs in the brand) to Jazz's specific altmode. I don't disagree with you that the average Joe can recognize Starscream. I'm saying if you gathered a hundred people who watched '80s Transformers as a kid and asked them what Jazz turned into, they'd probably say "a white car".

I honestly think this is a fair argument, at least if you subscribe to the idea that the cars look too similar. But that wasn't my point, I was responding to your quote which implied they should have made this car Jazz instead of Mirage. Which is something I've seen other people saying. Fair enough if you think they should have used a different car, but it's not as easy as just swapping out one character for another.

But this car doesn't have the distinctive front end that's part of Jazz's look. Jazz had a much squarer front end, and didn't have the headlights that flare up. It's not like Jazz is the only Transformer who can be a Porsche with a big spoiler. It just seems silly and limiting to put characters in such broad and vague boxes.

I agree with you in broad strokes...altmodes are definitely important to the characters. I'm saying characters shouldn't be synonymous with specific manufacturers. At that point characters just become car commercials, and these companies could potentially even begin to dictate how characters act in order to make their brand look better. The goal shouldn't be to always make Jazz a Porsche, the goal should be to make him something cool and hip that reflects his personality.

The Bumblebee movie actually supports my point quite well. Within that one film Bumblebee turns into a Willys Jeep, a VW Beetle, and a Chevy Camaro. Three different car manufacturers, not counting the fictional CGI vehicle he turns into on Cybertron. You don't walk away from that movie thinking of Bumblebee as a walking VW ad, or thinking Bumblebee always has to be something manufactured by VW.

 

I hope you do realize that filmmakers can't up and just do this stuff on a dime. Just up and swapping a car can put a movie overbudget. Millions of money seems a lot to the average joe, but to a corporate studio, losing millions of dollars can mean disaster.

Redesigning Sonic for the movie actually caused an entire VFX studio to shut down. That's an unfortunate truth about Jeff Fowler listening to the fans about Sonic's design, because he did so, a VFX studio went defunct. Fans were happy with the movie, and the film was successful, but that VFX studio went under.

Do not get me wrong, I was among the people happy with Sonic's redesign.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, swapping the car in order to listen to a very specific group of fans could be detrimental, and could potentially put the film itself in jeopardy. I know redesigning Sonic didn't jeopardize the film all that much, the most that came out of that was the closure of a VFX studio, but I think my point still stands. There's probably a better example of filmmakers listening to a particular group of fans that resulted in a film either being unsuccessful, or even canned altogether. I can't think of any examples ATM.

Bumblebee movie: Am I a joke to you?

Dr. Robotnik wasn't bald with a crazy moustache until his last scene on the mushroom planet in the Sonic movie. Similar instances I think, though I personally had no issue with Dr. Robotnik in the film.

Also, isn't Snake Eyes supposed to be an origin story? So isn't that the reason why the suit didn't show up until the end?

 

The sad thing is, I've seen someone complain that Bumblebee should have just been the Bug even after the Bumblebee Movie (I don't fully remember who nor do I want to name names if I do remember), not really wanting him to be the Camaro anymore. I don't disagree with your mentality that a specific vehicle shouldn't be the defining point of what a Transformer should be (I do like more unified vehicle designs, but even I'm not unrealistic about expecting a Freightliner FL-86 in 2012 when by that point the truck is both discontinued and phased out for more roadworthy trucks in America, and that model cabover has been replaced in other regions with other models (I usually gravitate to the Freightliner Argosy for those who want the cab look but with it actually making contextual sense for it being a more modernized truck vehicle), and if anything, I do like the idea of him swapping to a Kenworth to nod to Motormaster or going from Freightliner to a Peterbilt Cabover to make a Movie Nod. Maybe even a Volvo for a curveball.

 

Yes, it's literally called Snake Eyes GI Joe Origins. The movie is about him getting to the point where he becomes the 'Snake Eyes' (though that is the name he uses throughout the movie).

Sure, they could have had him have the suit for a final fight or whatever, but the movie was much more about the characters relationships, and how Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow ended up as enemies.

He does have a cool ninja costume through parts of the movie, he just doesn't get the v2 looking costume until the end.

 

Yep, this is absolutely a good point. It's easy for us to sit at home and be armchair prop designers, but it's not like they can just run out and "get a new car" because this looks somewhat similar to Jazz. That isn't a good reason to throw away hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars. Like I said earlier, at most it's just an unfortunate visual similarity. This won't make or break the character or movie...we need to see the characterization and the writing to judge that.

 

In theory I have no issue with him not donning something close to his classic duds until later or even waiting until a follow up movie, I think it could be done well if done by someone who knows what they're doing and understands G.I. Joe and its characters.

Too bad it's still a terrible film so arguing about these details is almost a waste of time because even if they get one or two things right it doesn't somehow save the entirety of the film.

 

The panini?

 

... Yes, the panini.

 

Bumblebee is the exception that proves the rule

 

This guy is such a stereotypical Hollywood producer/ exec.
No idea how people like this get to such high positions other than luck and being good with the studios money.

He’s the Jon Peters of Transformers

I feel like most of the movie going general public have no idea either.

Well, a big part of the fanbase/ audience have voiced how tiring it is that the Original Trilogy era/ Galactic Civil War aesthetic keeps being rehashed/ milked instead of moving on to new things.
This was a big problem with the Sequel Trilogy.

 

This counterargument doesn't make any sense whatsoever. One less than successful movie (and only in the age of these super-budgeted mega-blockbusters can $650M be considered unsuccessful) doesn't negate four very successful movies. All it does is show that by 2017, 10 years after they started, the current style and form of the movies had fallen out of fashion. The Bayverse worked until it didn't, and when it didn't, they moved on and now we have this new continuity. It's as simple as that.

No one is arguing that TLK wasn't a mess of a movie that brought an end to the Bayverse. That is clear as day. But if it performed like its predecessors, we would have Bayverse TF6 by now. It didn't, so we don't.

 

Or, this can be a lesson in getting the brand right the first time. A VFX studio shut down because they rendered a suck-ass Sonic? Boo-hoo. Next time, get it right and jobs won't be lost. That's how our world works.

Maybe if Lorenzo starts costing people jobs, he'll get his ass canned, too.

I think very few complained about. What we didn't see was:

1. Why Snake Eyes doesn't talk
2. Why he doesn't remove his mask in front of other Joes
3. How in the world an orphan street thug gained ninja skills or commando skills (they just magically appear)

Spoiler

Also, Snake Eyes is the BAD GUY until the last 15 minutes of the film after which Storm Shadow absolutely SHOULD kill Snake Eyes and you kind of hope he does. And even when he has a change of heart, he's still a jerk. Snake Eyes is rather unredeemable in this movie.[/quote]

It's not a Snake Eyes origin movie...it's a Storm Shadow one. Who helped green light this script? Who got the director? Who cut corners to keep the film on budget?

My bologna has a first name. It's L-O-R-E-N-Z-O.

 

Lorenzo, stay the f*** away.....

We got lucky with Bumblebee because after The Last Knight bombed, the higher ups decided to stay away from Transformers just in case they got even more mud on themselves. As a result Travis Knight found himself having more control over Bumblebee.

As someone here put it, Paramount left it out to die. Knight fixed it up, gave it a makeover and the patient ended up pretty healthy and quite wholesome compared to it's predecessors.

It should be noted, Bonaventura was not happy with what was being done with Bumblebee. I guess most of his supporters didn't want to risk getting involved with another 'failure'. Which was a good thing. In the end.

 

Then be happy with your 6 movies you already got. Seriously.

 

I am happy with them, and I hope that future movies will be just as, or more, enjoyable to me than 5 out of 6 of those movies, and offer new and exciting things to the franchise.