Marvel's Loki (Disney+)

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by eagc7, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. Christiano

    Christiano Banned

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    They tended to only speak in vague allusions - plus, they constantly lied - but the explanation which works best and is stated on the show is that drastic differences in certain run-through would happen (Mobius even mentions that Loki doesn’t always even make it to Thanos in life) as long as it didn’t change certain things. Loki being an alligator likely had no effect on Kang’s outcomes…

    So, in the most essential way, I think your theory is right. The timeline wasn’t just one run-through or it was the same sequence repeating every segment (basically a line with breaks in it that signify the “start” and “end” of existence) and Kang only needed to control certain variables while allowing for some others.
     
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  2. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    screenshot_255.png
     
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  3. Deathcatg

    Deathcatg Well-Known Member

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    No matter how they do whatever Kang variant that comes center-stage, I just hope he keeps at least some of the casual goofy manner the "One Who Remains" has. Thanos was stone cold serious, and in the future they'll probably use the likes of Doctor Doom and Magneto who also tend to play very seriously in tone. A more affable personality for one of your multi-movie mega villains at least once would probably be a welcome change-up.
     
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  4. BB Shockwave

    BB Shockwave Behold, Gagatron!

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    I may have missed it, but did people notice the Frog Thor cameo in the previous episode? He was there locked in a jar, jumping around when the camera pans down to the Loki hideout.

    But then why doesn't he ever take it off, outside combat? Even in Avengers EMH when he is kept prisoner he has it on. Y'd think a ruler would want to relax every now and then. Hence I always assumed either he was an alien or it was maybe some sort of augmented skin.
    Also it's ironic he considers Doom a relative, when according to the wikis he is related to Reed Richards actually...

    To me that isn't what I expect from a superhero movie. Shazam or Aquaman wasn't groundbreaking or super experimental, they were just good superhero movies with likeable characters. Same goes for Dr Strange or Spiderman Homecoming.
    This one though, had good chunks of super slow parts, and the ending especially felt like it was written by someone who writes books for a living (hmmm come to think of it, a lot like Ruckley on IDW Transformers?) and does not understand a TV show cannot be just three people talking for 30 minutes. In fact, more like one person talking. I was dumbfounded why Loki and Sylvie did not ask more questions, and why were they believing any of this without proof. When "Immortus" could have easily opened some time window and showed them scenes from the past time wars, adding some much needed action.

    But... this is dumb. Surely, the ONLY point in time you'd need to observe for that would be the day Kang is born and as he grows up. If the universe fractures into multiple timelines there is a good chance in most of them, he is never even born. The TVA would only need to check on his era, really.

    Except this only works if he knows the Lokis would kill him and then take over his job, and the time stream info stopping meant he could not be sure. Meaning he should have taken some precautions. Because now, the thing he feared the most happened and worse versions of him took over. Exactly because he was millions of years old, he could simply have killed Sylvie there and then, and should have given the job to Loki instead. But no, we have him powerless and now he has to basically start over, and he doesn't know he will win this time and turn into Immortus again, or a more evil Kang will become ruler in his place.

    That's ironic, because frankly everything he does is totally understandable to me. He is a soldier getting a job done. You don't negotiate with a superpowered terrorist who killed innocent people before, you take them down, hard. And when his best friend got killed before his very eyes, it is also understandable that he wants revenge.
    He is not a hero, much like soldiers in war usually aren't - they are warriors. He is doing his job to the best of his abilities. And he takes the serum not because he is power hungry but because he just got a demonstration of how inadequate he is with his current skills and lack of powers against superhumans.
    I was worried the show would make him into a straight out villain, but luckily, it gave us a more nuanced picture. In fact, it kinda comes off terrible looking on Sam and Bucky that from the start, even when they barely met him, they are all dismissive and antagonistic, even as Walker just tries to ask for their help and is nothing but supportive. It is no wonder a lot of reviewers who disliked the show feel he is voicing the opinions of the viewers who felt Sam and Bucky were really off their game in the series.

    The really smart third option would have been for Loki and Sylvie, after hearing his story, simply kill him, take over, and then go back in time as he was born and kill him there too, and keep the timeline to branch only after that point in time. That way, no multiversal war at all.

    Totally agreed. Classic Loki's story makes no sense - how can he existed and lived to an old age, when the sacred timeline states Loki has to die at the hands of Thanos? Shouldn't the TVA have shown up the moment they realized he was not really dead? And same with Sylvie. Shouldn't they have shoved up when she was a baby girl? Why wait until she is what, 10 years old?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  5. Dead Metal

    Dead Metal Well-Known Member

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    There is one timeline, but multi pararell realities. Look at the visual representation of the time line and it branching in the final episode. It's multiple strings of light all twisting around each other, and when the branching happens, it's just a few of those lines branching off and then branching off again.
    So Loki can take the form of a girl early in life, live as a girl and then as a woman, as long as she doesn't affect a future outcome in a major way. Or maybe, Silvy's nexus event was her deciding in that moment that she wanted to stay in her girl form.

    Kang seems to need a few things in place for his sacret time line to work, Loki never growing or succeeding, Thor to be alive, Loki reaching a certain point in life.

    Kid Loki states his Nexus event was him killing Thor, Comic Loki said it was him returning from his self imposed exile after faking his death, Alligator Loki ate the wrong neighbor's cat.

    Moebies states Loki not always makes it to Thannos alive, but when they do, their story ends with Thanos.

    Our Loki's Nexus Event was stealing the Tesseract and escaping. Basically he then posesses the power to rule and do incredible damage.

    It could be that Loki killing Thor or getting the Tesseract's power would result in a catastrophe that would either prevent Nathaniel Richards from being borne or maybe turning this version into Kang the Conqueror.
    Loki dying without doing major damage will result in Immortus creating the Sacret Timeline.
    No Immortus, no protection for this timeline and it's universes and ultimately getting conquered by Kang.
     
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  6. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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  7. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking The world has moved on...we've always said.

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    Hiddleston gets to practice his dramatic death scenes multiple times!!
     
  8. Autoclot

    Autoclot Well-Known Member

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    Tom Hiddleston is achieving in one character what it took Sean Bean an entire career to achieve.
     
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  9. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking The world has moved on...we've always said.

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    Literally a shot to his -
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. gregles

    gregles quintesson

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    Oh my god you killed Loki. You b*stard
     
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  11. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    I guess Loki took dying lessons from Optimus Prime.
     
  12. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    Loki: He Who Remains’ Citadel Concept Art Draws Inspiration From Citizen Kane
    What Loki’s Final Location Reveals About Its Big Villain
    Production Designer Kasra Farahani Interview: Loki

    Concept art of Kang's Citadel (seen on right), balanced with the final design.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Production Designer Kasra Farhani
    "Michael Waldron, the writer and creator, he had a very concise and evocative line in the original pitch doctor that said, "Mad Man meets Blade Runner," which was a starting point. Both Kate and myself, separate before we even met, in reviewing the material, felt that Terry Gilliam's Brazil was also very relevant, both because of the anachronism that that has that's so relevant to us, but also because of how successful and unique the bureaucratic feeling is. It just feels like this big bureaucracy crushing the individual, it was a very relevant narrative for our world, as well."

    "What does it mean when you reconcile Mad Men (whimsical, warm American midcentury modernism) with Blade Runner (which is dystopic, analog future tech) - what does that world look like? Creating this cognitive dissonance and the people that are brought to the TVA, even the audience, where it's like, you can't tell immediately if this is a warm and friendly place or if it's a place that wants to destroy you."

    "You are trying to find the visual thread that links everything. But the story and visuals both have this thing where the TVA the anchor, it's the anchor of the look, it's the narrative anchor, it's the home base. And then you're jumping out to these different environments as narrative and visual experiences."
     
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  13. Insurgent

    Insurgent The Amazing Tango Mysterio

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    That worked because Avengers was a self told story. Loki was the big bad of it. Thanos was introduced mid credits as simply a upper level boss, but he had nothing really to do with the story, other than the knowledge he was the one who gave Loki that staff. With this show, it doesn't work because the guy at the end was the main driving force of the TVA, the main driving force of the story. Who was he? What was his name? I shouldn't need to know the casting for a future movie (I didn't actually know he was cast as Kang in Ant Man 3), or have intimate comic knowledge to follow what's going on in the show. I found this series overall to be a massive let down. I'm glad everyone else is loving it, but it doesnt do anything for me. We had the multiverse set up in endgame, this show simply breaks the logic of it to end by resetting it so the logic now works, the big bad isn't even named and doesn't do anything but ramble about the upcoming big bad, how can his castle be at the end of time when the timeline continues past it, the TVA stuff is irrelevant now because they all got reset and the kang statue being in the tva is meaningless because Kang was already in charge of the tva. This show also didn't add anything that wasn't already introduced in Endgame other than Sylvie, Judge being out there and Kang, but the Kang we got introduced to is dead anyway so it makes no difference, since we had the multiverse going from Endgame. At least the other shows introduced new elements, got us caught up on the status of the world post endgame, had character growth that felt natural. This.... felt like it was trying to be high concept and got too fancy for itself, falling flat.

    Seriously, what am I missing here that everyone else loved so much?
     
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  14. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    I just liked seeing Loki doing stuff & trying to turn his life around. I don’t care about the logistics of how the TVA works or how this affects upcoming movies or any of that. I’m just here for some Loki (and now Sylvie & Mobius too).

    *edit*
    To add to that- @Ephland’s take made me consider that the real villain of this show isn’t the TVA or Kang, but Sylvie. Kang could be seen as just the goal that both Loki & Sylvie want. But it’s a show about Loki trying to overcome those traits about himself that keep him down. He’s trying to become a better person & wants to change the path he’s on.
    Meanwhile, Sylvie is hellbent on destroying the TVA no matter what. She’s not interested in changing her ways and never really learns to trust. That’s why the final fight is between them & not them teaming up against Kang. Loki was trying to get her to wait for a minute so they could figure things out & she wasn’t having it.

    So there you go. That’s the long way of saying that Kang’s reveal didn’t need to be given much foreshadowing because be (possibly) wasn’t the main antagonist of the show.

    Loki wants to change the path he’s on.
    Sylvie is a Loki. Sylvie don’t wanna change.
    It’s Loki vs himself. Not Loki vs the TVA.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  15. rikaldomario

    rikaldomario Well-Known Member

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    Gonna add this Season of Loki to the "Finale Letdown Hall of Fame" along with Star Wars Ep. 9 and Game of Thrones.

    In all seriousness, I agree with posters that have stated they can't understand how some people loved this ending. To me it was really boring, nothing but 3 persons talking in a dark room for 85% of the episode. Yes, the implication that the Multiverse opens up is awesome, and that a really threatening Kang is inbound, but FFS why couldn't the have SHOWN US some of that?!?! This is TV, an visual medium for storytelling. I'm guessing they blew the FX bugdet in the previous episode, because I was expecting at least little teases of all those possibilities. How awesome would it have been to see other outcomes for our favorite scenes in the MCU. Thanos winning in Endgame, Tony surviving his snap, Loki in a throne ruler of everything, Ultron actually causing human extinction on Earth, etc.

    Also, I found "He who remains" really annoying. On the level of Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor annoying. I was expecting the other Big Bad Variants of him at least stepping onto the scene. Something like the White Walkers appearence in one of the GoT Season Finales. They didn't have to do anything with them, just show them. The giant statue didn't do anything for me honestly.

    All in all, I really enjoyed the Walmart, armageddon in planet purple and Alioth episodes a lot, but the season finale killed my excitement.

    Like one of my go-to youtube reviewers said, it would have been much better if they hadn't already revealed Dr. Strange as "Multiverse of Madness" since that would have made the whole "multiverse opens up" reveal a lot more impactful.
     
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  16. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    [​IMG]

    Tom bags them all, doesn't he?
     
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  17. gregles

    gregles quintesson

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    He who remains!! an eligible bachelor.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  18. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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  19. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    No worries. Screencrush has an answer.

     
  20. areaseven

    areaseven Live to Win

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