Is it just me, or does it look like for the action scenes and to maybe throw off the audience, was Taskmaster being played by a guy?
Spoiler She was. The stunts for TM were performed by Andy Lister Andy Lister | Marvel Cinematic Universe Wiki | Fandom Andy Lister - IMDb This was supposedly done intentionally to obscure TM's gender based on assumptions both of culture and of comic backstory
I noticed it when the helmet first came off, the build seemed to be visibly different between the shots.
I enjoyed it. It was a surprisingly very dark film. I’m not sure I’d even take anyone under 12 to see it because of its very realistic themes of loss and trauma. But I think I enjoyed it because it actually felt a little cathartic and it was nice knowing that even though BW is gone, she had a legit family that would have mourned her. I did think it got a little silly with the explosions and flying through shattered windows at the end but it is an action movie. Yelena making fun of the superhero poses was stellar. I don’t always enjoy the type of humor in mainstream action movies but Yelena’s blasé teasing of Natasha never got old. (The reproductive joke was also brutal but good too.) And the end credit scene was very nice too. We definitely got our Reverse Nick Fury working hard… Overall, this was a very good addition to the MCU. It fleshed out Natasha and Yelena, making you more invested in them.
Finally got a chance to see this. It was certainly entertaining, though it had way too much CGI for my liking, it is after all a comic book movie. I did however find it disappointing that the movie was more about Yelena and flushing her out as a character(same with Alexi and Melena)than it was about Natasha herself. It felt like this was Yelena's movie and not Nat's. Furthermore, the gender swap on Taskmaster is incredibly disappointing. I very much dislike it when they change up a character so much just to fit this little obscure narrative. The movie was nothing more than introducing us to characters they plan on showing in the future. It's almost like a 2 hour mid credit scene. Good movie, disappointing story. I was hoping for more of a WS feel and this didn't have it.
I was okay with the movie. It’s an action film. Simple plot. Taskmaster was a massive letdown. So much potential wasted.
I really don’t like when movies do this sort of thing. The surprise reveal didn’t bother me, but for several scenes, the camera and physical presence towered over Scarlett Johansson, who is tiny. I’m not huge, but I’m about 72 or 73 inches and weigh 200-205, so I’m just short enough to notice how massive Chris Hemsworth is and just tall enough to see how small a 5-foot-3 woman is. And Taskmaster’s height changed a lot. Now, I’m not saying in anyway that I guessed the twist - because I definitely didn’t - but during a few frames of the movie, especially later on during fight scenes, I thought, “Wow, the guy playing Taskmaster is much smaller and slighter than I’d have thought… His shoulders are so sloped.” Maybe this was just my imagination or more likely, they used different stand-ins, camera tricks, effects, shoe-lifts, etc to alter the height and size of the character several times. I hate this approach because it’s less a “clever surprise” and more using the fact that the audience knows that they’re watching a movie (and that movies have mistakes and bad camera work) to dismiss anything noticeable. I liked it. The twists didn’t bother me as much as the repetition of them did. Florence Pugh was fucking great. “Why do you always do that thing?”
Do we think natasha is buried in her vrave? Did the avengers go to vomir after the 10 years or so her body was there and bring it back, or did cap bring her back on his time travel? She didn't seem to come through with hawkeye. How does countess know hawkeye was involved in natashas death? I hope that question gets answered. Yelaina was fantastic. Well happy to see more of her. Red guardian was amusing, did wish he got a proper fight though. Nat was as enjoyable as ever. Taskmaster was such a disappointment as a villain. And from someone who knows barely anything about him, it's surprising i still feel disappointment. She could have been a true ongoing threat in different movies, popping up here and there. But instead.... more forgettable than the dark elf leader. Overall, i really enjoyed this movie. Its nothing new or groundbreaking but its a good swansong for natasha. It would have had more impact if it came out before infinity war, like it should have. Or even between if and endgame. It could have fit in the gap, as nat gets embroiled in this following the snap and the bad guy is making his power play during the instability the snap caused. Barely anything needed to change.
I’m not even sure that Clint hid the fact that he was involved with it, especially from the other Avengers. So, if Rhodes and Sam know, other soldiers likely do too. Especially their superiors.
I figured the other avengers knew. But it was in the past on another planet. I'm doubting that was public knowledge. I'm not criticising it, I'm just wondering how she knew. And I'm sure when we find out more about who countess is and what she's capable of, how she knows something like that will become clear.
For a movie about "girl power", Red Guardian kind of steals the show, IMHO. It was decent as an action flick. Not a lot in there we haven't seen somewhere else, whether we're talking James Bond or even B-movies. But releasing a story about the effects of post-CA Civil War after Endgame seems useless and unnecessary. The only scene that progresses the MCU narrative whatsoever is the end credit scene. When you've got Wandavision and Loki giving phase 4 some momentum, it just seems weird to suddenly snap backward to spin a Phase 3 yarn. I think I might have still felt this way even when it was supposed to have been released two years ago. Anyhow, more Red Guardian please? Maybe for the next Cap America movie with Falcon?
Right, but I don't think that Contessa is the public. I think it's her expressed goal to manipulate powerful people into doing what she wants, and Rhodes has already shown himself to be a reluctantly obedient subordinate. I suppose if having a woman on the cover means that it's about "girl power," sure. But I also know that every time someone tries to do some psycho-social breakdown of how Captain America is about how weak, small men wish that they could beat up everybody and get the hot chick at the end, it gets laughed out of the room for being - what's the phrase? - fucking stupid.
The whole theme of the movie is women breaking free of old, white men. Every man in this film is either out to get/control Black Widow and sis - or somewhat incompetent. Even the guy who is helping her the most by giving her supplies appears to be incompetent until the very last scene. They even clearly plan to phase out the "widow stance", which was probably deemed sexist since it's all about the cleavage shot. I mean, you couldn't get a more obvious "girl power" theme than if it was a bright neon red sign blazing in a dark alleyway. I'm really not complaining about it, though. If that floats some boats, then more power to ya'. I just think it's funny that the best part of the film is actually the "macho man".
Peter Parker = a nerd who magically gets super-strong and punches out the bullies. Sometimes, surface-level interpretations aren't anything more than the vapid misunderstandings of people who can't separate themselves from the metaphor of fiction. If a highly skilled and powerful female character = girl power or feminism, then almost every movie in the MCU would be about that. Truth be told, I know what you're getting at and don't disagree, but the fact that you mentioned this aesthetic and then immediately diminished it makes it sound like either you know that "girl power" isn't about being a super-cool assassin in a tight outfit who beats up all the stupid boys or that you do have a problem with it. I hope I'm wrong about that, but women who aren't working for Disney's PR department want characters with fully developed personalities, stories that resonate with their experiences and clothes that don't serve the purpose of looking hot. That is "girl power." Pretending that every time some moron at Disney plays the "girls get it done" sequence from Endgame = feminism is pretty disingenuous.
This movie goes beyond "a super-cool assassin in a tight outfit who beats up all the stupid boys" to reinforce it's girl power motif. And, like I said, if that floats your boat then fine. I just think it's funny that the movie literally bends backwards to push the motif and then gives us the gift of Red Guardian. Heck, I'd watch a whole movie about him.
I went to see it with a few friends last night. It's been almost 19 months since I was last at the cinema (and the film we watched that day was The Rise of Skywalker...). Needless to say, it was great to be back and to experience a film in that setting again. For that reason alone, it was a night well spent. Can't wait to head back again very soon. With those pleasantries out of the way, that leaves talking about the movie itself. We all agreed this was our least liked Marvel Studios film to date. Personally, like Age of Ultron (my former worst), I wouldn't say it was full-on bad, more so "meh". It certainly left a lot to be desired, but there was quite a bit to really like as well. The opening credits were really cool, possibly the best 'scene' in the movie. Finding out what did happen with Hawkeye in Budapest was great. Yelena is an awesome new character - Pugh is a really talented young actress, Yelena has a lot of personality but - with her being our new Widow going forward - I like the contrast with the Natasha we'd come to know & love. Nat had been with SHIELD quite a while when she was introduced, whereas Yelena only defected in this movie, so - especially compared to the Nat in this film who'd gone through a lot of character development at this point - she's more ruthless, violent and shady. Spoiler The post-credits scene with Valentina at Nat's grave was a brilliant part. I think it worked out a lot better to have our introduction to Valentina be in TFATWS so we already have an idea of what she's building, as opposed to the original release plan pre-COVID which would have had her debut in this scene. This made me highly hyped for Hawkeye, post-credits goodness at its best. David Harbour as Alexsei aka Red Guardian almost stole the show. All the humor with him was hilarious, and I'm happy we'll be getting more of him in future projects. Overall, I really loved the dysfunctional fake family dynamics with Nat/Yelena/Alexsei/Melina. It added an emotional care to the movie that highlighted the trauma of the spy lifestyle & the need for attachment they all had given the lives they were forced into. However, the 3rd act was far too much. A Black Widow solo movie should be grounded spy film reliant on practical/physical effects. It turning into a CGI OTT madhouse - Yelena's leg should have been broken at the least after her final stunt, she's no powers - & the nature of Dreykov's headquarters crossed the line by a wide margin. I appreciated the parallels to human trafficking and using this terrible real-world crime as the base of the villainy, but the usage of the Red Room and its plan beyond that I took issues with. Spoiler It was very similar to Hydra. Aside from repetition. this is a big issue because Hydra's whole deal - the story of Cap 2 and what made them such cool antagonists - is that they were a shadow power who in the dark had their fingers in every institution and were secretly manipulating events in every corner of the world so they could one day rise to ultimate & total control. This film creates a conspiracy-gambit-pile-up for the MCU - what's the difference between Red Room and Hydra? Was the Red Room the secreter-secret power who secretly controlled Hydra as well? Or vice-versa? In the world with no Avengers, no Cap, no Nat, what happens? How do these two secret powers' agendas collide? If this is the case then how did neither know of the other through all those years (between Nat's conversion and Cap 2 in the case of Hydra knowing of Red Room)? It muddies up the verse a little for poorly-justified/needed reasons. Taskmaster was a massive waste. Hopefully she comes back later and gets a lot more development. But either way, Taskmaster served no purpose in the movie we got. The role didn't need to be Taskmaster. I think the plotline we got - if not fleshed out as well as it could have been - was a really strong one. Nat having to truly confront her violent past by it literally coming back to haunt her with the victim of her most callous act having survived as a twisted weapon designed to kill her. That's heavy & is a great conflict for Nat with her character arc. But, with there being so many other controlled Widows there anyway, that character could have very easily been 'the ultimate Widow' rather than Taskmaster, it actually likely makes more thematic and narrative sense to do it that way. Now with that said, that basically is how Yelena introduced Taskmaster and that would be a cool reinterpretation of the character. Like I said above, I think she could easily return and wind up as a much more faithful and great adaptation of the character. But this was a weak introduction and especially rotten & a joke of an adaptation if this does wind up being a one-and-done. The worst part of the film: an annoying, uninspired villain which balks in the face of the comics character. Black Widow's Taskmaster failed both as Taskmaster and as the culmination of the Red Room's Widow Program. I've seen/read what the point was - it's so "obvious" that Nat will find a way out there's no point even showing it, except how could she have escaped General Ross at the end? They were right on top of her, they were very plentiful in numbers, there was no vehicle or any means for her to escape on and she was just after a lot of physical trauma in an unknown location with only wreckage around her. They really did leave that one as too much of a pinch to just skip past it as a d'uh moment. There were clearly big issues with the movie we got. But even beyond that, there's the issue with the whole premise. It's been said many times, but why did we get a film set at the end of Civil War released after Infinity War & Endgame? If they couldn't release the movie then, then why set it then? I'm all for moving around points in the timeline, but in doing a prequel there needs to be a narrative need for it which needs to have been established in advance. Doing a BW adventure after Civil War doesn't fulfill that criteria. With Nat having died in Endgame, it also creates an added context issue - Nat's death was an incredible, emotional moment that closed the door on her journey in a fitting way. Doing this movie set 7 years before that which has these massive moments in her life and gives her a surrogate family which she reconnects with and ends the movie on great terms with troublingly adds context to her arc. With I mean by that is it adds significant new areas to her character which gives different slants to her behavior in the other films and especially her sacrifice, when we'd already gotten from IM2 - Endgame a dynamic and full character arc with an appropriate and brilliant ending. As I said above, the exposition on Budapest and the opening credits were class and I really liked the flashback scene to the assassination on Dreykov. My friends and I agreed that this truly would have been a much better movie than the one we were presented with. I really don't understand why we didn't get a full-on Black Widow prequel movie set in the noughties with Clint as a main character and featuring Fury, fully showing us Nat's past as a Red Room operative and chronicling her defection to SHIELD. It would have been a great time to set the film, it would have had to be a true spy thriller and very grounded and it would have been a truly different film to the rest of the MCU. We would finally see Nat's full backstory and see her begin as this cold, lethal assassin but slowly transitioning to the point where she started her character arc from. That would be a worthy and deserving prequel, that 'adds context' in the right way. We already know all about Nat's backstory so nothing would contradict how or change how we look at her in the previous films, but by actually fully seeing how she was before SHIELD it'd give us a powerful change of heart story and new appreciation for how much she changed. That makes sense as the Black Widow story to tell after she's been killed off. We've seen how she ends, so let's go with her last movie with her to see how she started. With all that said and all those criticisms (of the execution and of the premise itself), I will reiterate to close these - definitely too long - thoughts off that I found the movie mediocre, but I wouldn't ever call it outright bad. The humor was great, family dynamic was great and Harbor & Pugh were brilliant and I'm very much looking forward to seeing more of them. But, I wouldn't say Harbor or Pugh stole the show as a blanket statement, because this was Scarlett Johansson's show. For a decade, she played this part superbly. She lived this role & made it hers for so long. The main reason I've gone on and on so much about this movie is because Nat has been one of my favorite MCU characters for a long time. I've no shame in admitting that I cried at her death. Even though it wasn't the right story at the right time, I'm happy Scarlett finally got her more-than-well-deserved sole spotlight film, and that all of could say one last goodbye to her performance and to the character.
I mean, you'd want a blander actor to play Red Guardian so that Natasha looks better? It's fine that you think Red Guardian "stole the show" but the film clearly centered around the trauma Natasha and Yelana experienced when they lost their family and were forced into brutal work. The movie's character arc centered on those two overcoming that trauma and coming together as a family one last time. The movie accomplished that, no question about it. Red Guardian did grow a little as a character but clearly he was there to help the others through their journey. If you focused more on David Harbour maybe that says more about your secret man crush for the guy. (I'm just joking! But it's okay if you do have a mancrush on the guy.) Harbour is another example of Marvel's awesome casting decisions. Some of the criticisms for the movie are downright bizarre because they say that (a) this didn't push the MCU forward or (b) I don't really care for Natasha. Which is hilarious because this was a movie about Natasha and it delivered. This was not Infinity War Part 3 or Civil War 1.75. Marvel didn't tease that Kang was going to appear in BW. And everyone knew this was going to be set before BW died. No surprises there. The movie wonderfully closed the character arc Black Widow began since she first appeared in the MCU. If you are bummed out that BW delivered what it set out to deliver, I don't know what to tell you. This movie had a lot more emotional weight and character investment than several other MCU films.
