Precisely.

 

Just quoting this cause it is literally my opinion too.

 

Cool, a pointless argument! (Too tired to read it though...) Anyway...

I actually like the toy boxart. Looks mechanicle I guess. I like the figeroa optimus but there was not option to vote for it. Also G2 laser prime is cool

 

thats the model kit one

 

That’s really not a problem he’s just incapable of maturely admitting to simple mistakes.....

 

But that's how you learn! Heck, I've been on the Wiki a few times in the course of this debate, to verify my facts. Had to correct a detail here & there, too.

 

Got a couple, actually...



It's hard to go wrong with the original design. It's iconic, it's earnest, its silhouette is distinct, its color theory is excellent and you can immediately tell what he turns into from a glance, which I think is important to any Transformer design. It's also pretty dang cheaty, what with the wheels straight-up disappearing, which might be part of why the latest masterpiece figure for this character is approximately $400. Not to say that justifies the price, mind...



Powermaster Prime is technically not the first attempt at giving Optimus a super mode-- that honor technically goes to Ultra Magnus, as the armor was functionally an add-on to the Convoy mold-- but this is still the first super mode to be designed expressly for Optimus Prime, and honestly it's still one of the best. The trailer is nice and versatile and, perhaps most importantly, immediately functional. The core robot mode was easily the most screen-accurate version of Optimus people could own at the time. He's well armed in any mode, but especially the super robot form, which towers above his colleagues. There's a powerful simplicity to the design that really works for me, the sense that "Yeah, this is what a powered-up Optimus would look like" and while it still has the detachable head and you've got the Powermaster gimmick to worry about, PMOP is in many ways a less clunky version of the G1 Magnus toy in practice.



Star Convoy is just cool. The toy might be a brick, but it's a gorgeous brick. No Optimus design before or since has quite captured this level of sheer style. Where Powermaster OP is Optimus but armored up, Star Convoy is Optimus but an old school super robot. The big star on his chest and the horns on his helmet just say it all: this is Optimus in his most powerful form, bar none, and he's gonna give you a speech about friendship right before he kicks a meteor in half and it explodes. The dinky cab of the alt mode is immensely endearing, pulling his massive trailer, AKA the rest of his body, along with it. It looks completely impractical, but I'm not going to lie to you and claim it doesn't also look slick as hell.



Nobody really talks about Combat Hero Optimus because it kind of lives in the shadow of its younger brother, and I feel that's a shame. This was an attempt to really do something different with the design, and while it's still very clearly Optimus (just look at the text in those chest windows) there are some changes that are really neat. The truck mode isn't a cab over anymore, instead it's a long-nose, the second use of it after Star Convoy except it looks more like something you'd see in the real world (you know, minus the G2 colors, but even then it's tamer than some other figures from the same time) and it's got the signature giant rocket strapped to his right arm. He's very boxy and I find that exceptionally charming.



Laser Rod Prime is great. Under most circumstances a combination of red, blue, grey and black would result in a pretty bland looking robot, but the red and the blue are so vibrant that it's impossible to mistake this for anything other than pure gonzo G2 fun. The enormous shoulders, the colors, and the iconic sword give this design a character entirely its own, and things only improve when you throw the trailer into the mix (complete with a deco of Optimus... burning a forest down for no reason other than it was the 90's and wanton environmental destruction was EXTREEEEEEME.) If you put the G1 Optimus toy, the Powermaster Optimus toy and this toy into a sequence together there'd be a steady evolution of Optimus' trailer from a repair bay to a full-on battle station, and Laser Rod Prime's got it all. Air launching missile gimmick of its elder brother? Check. Disc launcher that was all the rage in the 90's? Check. Extra missile launcher that can be detached and carried around as a monstrously oversized handgun? Definite check. And the actual intended handgun for this figure can be attached to the top of this weapons platform to become its own little turret. This is an Optimus that's more than equipped to blow you to hell with overwhelming firepower. It's little wonder that this toy was so popular back in the day, and it came back strong as RID2001 Scourge, where the excessive firepower actually makes a lot more sense at the hands of a merciless Decepticon commando.



And, of course, Classics/Henkei. There's a lot to love about this design, and while I've long since sold my old one it's still something that holds a special place in my heart. It's a testament to what Classics once was and what I wish it could be again: old characters not remade beat for beat, but remastered, new life breathed into them to give them a modern feel. The alt mode is sleek and streamlined, the weapons integration is excellent, and the smooth design of the robot mode is just a thing of beauty. The only issue with this design, alas, is the sides of the truck resting on the arms, but they're generally pretty unobtrusive. It's little wonder that this mold got so much mileage: it's just an excellent design and toy. Most of the original classics designs have aged like milk (Astrotrain, Rodimus, and the deluxe seekers especially IMO, the ER Voyagers were a much-needed upgrade all around) but Classics Optimus still holds up impeccably today. It really is a shame that they don't make them quite like this anymore.

 

You have to want to learn before you can actually learn

And he apparently doesn’t want to learn, never really does his research either

 

I was actually mistaken there. I assumed Power Master Optimus Prime was G2 because he was heavily used during the G2 era to promote the toys and the cartoon with the live action commercial breaks for Transformers G2 featuring the design. However Action Masters and Power Masters are still separate toy lines though. It's kind of the equivalent to how even in the modern day Hasbro often has multiple toy lines running co-currently with each other. Just because the figures came out during that area doesn't mean it's still the same toy line.

It's not just heavily based on G1, it's literally the same design. Every Optimus Prime is based on G1 to some extent. Power Master Optimus Prime I would say is heavily based on G1 because it's similar but different enough to be visually distinct. Rescue Bots is not visually distinct.

If your reasoning is that it's not a G1 design because it's not connected to G1 then how do you reconcile including IDW which seems to be an entirely separate universe that came out well after G1 had long sense ended?

With you so far...

Being based on the same source material is a large part of what makes them the same design. The differences are as much a stylistic choice as the box art was. Both are still depictions of the same thing, that thing being the G1 design.

I say that loosely because technically every Optimus is to some extent based on the same source material... well almost every Optimus, looking at you Beast Machines! The difference is STYLE refers to the over all look that is shared by every character as a whole while DESIGN refers the specific look of an individual character. You can have the same style but different design like wise you can have the same design in different styles. One does not automatically equate to the other.

A different design requires some deliberate changes to pre-existing expectations of what that character should look like and this just doesn't do that. Neither does Rescue Bots which is why I called him a G1 design.

Note there's a section in here I removed that I'll come back to later.

Quick question... What are these? O0 I mean I know the first one is the letter O and the second is the number 0 but I mean what shape do you think they are? The zero is slightly thinner but I would still call both shapes a circle. Similarly I would say his shoulders are rectangular on BOTH designs. They might be shorter on the animation model but they still aren't a prefect square either. And technically a rectangle is just a square that's longer one way and shorter another way. A true square has to have the exact same dimensions on all four sides but that's pretty rare unless you're measuring it out. Similarly the difference between an oval and a circle is just that one is longer in one direction and shorter in another but it's even harder to make a perfect circle than it is to make a square.

Anyway, these are things that I would consider different STYLES not different designs... Squares and circles are different designs as they're drastically different things. Squares and rectangles are just different styles. Any shape with four clearly distinct sides and corners can be called a square it just wouldn't be a perfect square.

The sunbow style is more simplified cause it's a hand drawn cartoon. Animators had to be able to draw it hundreds of times just to get 5 minutes of animations done. Can you really blame them for simplifying some of the more complex details?

And that was the part I took out earlier.

Those just sound like nit picking rather than actually being different designs. Your talking about shapes and complex details being simplified to make it easier on the animators to draw. It's still the same design. They haven't added anything drastically different from what was already there.

But they are simply stylistic choices. They're not design choices at all.

Clearly based on the same thing with nothing new added = Same design different style.

Vaguely based on the same thing with brand new details that weren't there originally = Different Design.

I do agree that the box art more closely resembles the toy than the animation model does but the artist who did the box art didn't have to be able to draw him somewhat consistently multiple times a day. It was a one a done artwork so that artist could devote more time to accurately capturing fine details.

There's nothing to assume, that's a fact.

None of those are the same design. They're the same character and if that's what the OP meant he should of said only incarnations of the G1 character count not only G1 designs count cause that's what limits it to only one design.

It would be like if I said what's your favorite Beast Wars design for Primal and inexplicably included the Beast Machines incarnation. I specified Beast Wars designs not Beast Era designs so Beast Machines shouldn't count.

That actually would of made the question much less confusing then how it's actually worded. That I can understand. There are multiple designs intended to represent the character but there are not multiple designs intended to represent the same design that doesn't make sense but that's how the OP worded it.

Well there are multiple Flame Toys model kits. Two of them are intended to be representations of G1 Optimus Prime. One being done more traditionally and the other in a more Anime style. The are also model kits for other Optimus Primes including Shattered Glass that are not G1 at all.

 

I recognize there are inconsistencies between Mainframe's Beast Wars and Sunbow's Transformers. But Sunbow was so full of inconsistencies just within itself that I can't bring myself to write off Beast Wars as a separate continuity on a count of a few inconsistencies.

I see it sort of like how Macross 7 is a followup series to the original Macross anime, but it also incorporates some elements from the Macross Do You Remember Love movie. Most Macross fans still see Macross 7 as a direct sequel even despite a few inconsistencies.

There was never a toy released called Power Master Optimus Prime, nor was a toy released called Action Master Optimus Prime. Take a good look at the original packaging. He was just called "Optimus Prime" on the box. We as collectors call them Power Master Optimus Prime and Action Master Optimus Prime to differentiate them from the 1st Optimus Prime toy. But they were released as "Optimus Prime."

If the names were truly Powermaster Optimus Prime and Actionmaster Optimus Prime, then:

- It's not Twintwist, it's Jumpstarter Twintwist
- It's not Runamuck, it's Battlecharger Runamuck
- It's not Chromedome, it's Headmaster Chromedome

 

Style literally is a verb meaning design or make in a particular form.

 

I will respond to your individual points in a subsequent post. But before I can do so, I believe there are a few points that require clarification if we wish to be on the same page:

1. What is your definition of G1? (i.e., When does it begin and when does it end?) What is the basis for your definition thereof?
2. How do you distinguish between a toyline and a sub-line? What is the basis for your distinction thereof?
3. What are your definitions of "design" and "style"?

The definitions I offered for those words were as follows:
"I would say, a design pertains to the choice and arrangement of elements in a work, while a style pertains more to the aesthetic presentation of those elements in a completed design."

It seems that you agreed to my definitions of design and style here:

Then proceeded to offer alternate definitions of such:

Which definitions do you affirm? What is the basis for your definitions?

 

sorry but you are mistaken about that as well

The power Master optimus Prime was NEVER what so ever used to promote the G2 toys

You are 100% incorrect

Would you say transmetal beast Wars figures were a completely different toyline, or the domino's as released in G1

Thank u

 

I like the way Will Simpson drew him

 

The issue here is not that there are inconsistencies but a deliberate attempt to take influence from two different sources.And that’s a big difference then what we got within the Sunbows continuity

The inconsistencies we got in the g1 cartoon were born of different writing stiles and last minute script Additions that mistakenly lead to some Perceived (mostly minor) continuity issues cough cough constructicons cough

On the other hand, theBeast Wars show creators deliberately tried to appeal to fans of 2 of the major known G1 continuities ,blending aspects of both into a back story that doesn’t and can’t really fit into either without Additional retcons to cover up some (major in my opinion) continuity issues

Ultimately the intentional choice of pulling in influence from two different sources squarely places Beast Wars outside both Sunbow and marvel as the events of both could not have taken place in a single history as it was presented

Sorry but so I wasn’t a fan so I can’t say if this yes a good comparison

But I have noticed in many different fandoms that sone fans have a problem Distinguishing a true continuity error from a Perceived one

 

NO, they're really not different toylines. Literally every G1 figure, from the earliest Diaclone-based redeco to the last Action Master, was marketed under the Transformers branding. When Transformers was brought back, it was Transformers: Generation Two, and THAT is the first line distinct from the original. "Action Master", Powermaster etc were simply different gimmick-based assortments within G1, not seperate lines. To say otherwise makes about as much sense as breaking the first year into distinct "Car", "Jet" and "Minibot" lines.

PMOP was never sold under a line called Transformers: Powermasters. He was sold under Transformers, as Optimus Prime, with "Powermaster Autobot Leader" as his description/function.

Why do you insist on digging yourself in deeper? You're incorrect. Just acknowledge it and move on. Constantly repeating your misconceptions won't make them any more right.

You've ignored all prompts to elaborate on your assertion that there's only one G1 Optimus Prime design, doubling down on it to the point of calling it fact. This is despite a few people demonstrating that this is false. We've backed our claims with evidence, while you just keep calling your assertions "facts" with nothing to back them.

If multiple people are correcting you, that should be a strong indicator that you need to evaluate your assumptions. Try looking info up on the Wiki. It's not foolproof, but I've found they're right far more often than not.

 

I think you and I are mostly on the same page as far as what we observe in both series. The only place where we differ on is just how much of an inconsistency constitutes a seperate continuity. We can agree to disagree on that.

It's kind of ironic that I'm the one here arguing it is part of the same continuity and I personally would rather it not be. To be honest, I wasn't a big fan. I liked the 1st season, but I didn't like where it went from there. But I do love BW II and BW Neo.

 

My favorite is powermaster Optimus Prime, but I’ve never been a fan of the fake chest. The fact that it is on the other side of his body as the actual front of the cab except this version is cartoonishly warped for no apparent reason just looks really ugly. If a character just needs to have fake parts for whatever reason I’d prefer that they are designed to be so different looking that there’s no mistaking it for a cheated version of the real parts, and instead it looks like its own piece/detail. That’s why I like how the G2 and Galaxy Force designs did it. They’re not trying to fool anyone into thinking that his chest is formed from the windshields, but they still invoke the look of his classic chest design.

But when a design uses fake parts, and you can actually plainly see the real part sitting somewhere else on the robot mode (like on Earthrise Arcee) it kills the immersion and believability that you have an accurate representation of how this character would really be physically structured in the real world.

That said, I’ve fallen in love with Optimus Prime’s Powermaster design because of the Marvel comics, and I’ve been wanting a proper update since. If his inner robot has to have the fake chest, I’d hope they at least give the “windows” some sort of mechanical detailing or panel lines to help set them apart from the actual windows on the other side of his body.

 

Actually I do not believe that is where we differ

What we seem to be differing on is what can be called an inconsistency and what should not be called a “ inconsistency” the definition of the word itself and by comparison to the Inconsistencies within G1 itself

All the inconsistencies in g1 ,regardless of degree, are all mistakes created by different writers that were unaware of the eariler lore and how their own stories would create conflict with what came before

That’s a completely different thing then what happened with Beast Wars

What you see as “Inconsistencies” between the Beast Wars show and G1 Sunbow Do not truly fit the definition of inconsistent nor do they compare to the inconsistencies seen in Sunbow because they were done Entirely by design

the Beast Wars creators were not trying to create a sequel to either the Sunbow or the Marvel. They were trying to create a show that could serve as a sequel to both, but in doing so they created a show that was a direct sequel to neither

Every issue between BW and Sunbow was completely Intentional because They purposely drew in elements from the marvel that can’t really be reconciled with Sunbow without more major re-writes

bottom line, the beast wars creators Intentionally deviated/alternated between both source materials reddening the show a completely different continuity from either Sunbow or marvel

I love those of the two shows as well