XTB Protectobots/Defensor

Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by XBurner071, Oct 25, 2020.

  1. BIOMEC

    BIOMEC Terrorcon, aka "Ratchetman"

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  2. Cincyred

    Cincyred Well-Known Member

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    Because it adds unnecessary engineering for a mode that maybe 5% care about while potentially making sacrifices in stability for the modes people are actually purchasing it for. FWIW, I owned combiners as a kid and never once put something into base mode. Even at 10 years old, I thought they looked silly.
     
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  3. SquishyOH

    SquishyOH Spelling Chekcer

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    Because that base mode is just absolutely terrible. I can see why XTB tried to be faithful to the basemode for the Stunticons. It certainly could have been a selling point that they're the only ones to try. You wouldn't skip jet mode on Blitzwing just because it's always the worst. XTB tried once and the concensus is that it added too many extra joints running up costs and hurting stability and durability of the combined form.
    At least they tried once and I won't fault them for that. I'll fault XTB if they ever try it again. Especially for such a terrible looking base mode.
     
  4. Delduwath

    Delduwath Well-Known Member

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    The base mode added two joints.

    Like don't get me wrong, I think the base mode is throwaway (literally every base mode I've ever seen in any transformer, official or 3P, Masterpiece or not, over ~40 years, has been a throwaway "robot lies down") and I don't see it as being worthwhile, but I also don't see it as a compromise that weakened the final product. If anything, XTB's commitment to certain dimensions and proportions for the trailer compromised the final product. DX9's trailer seems a lot simpler and less frustrating to transform, but I think it's longer than XTB's while producing a Menasor of nearly the same height. That means XTB had to compress their Menasor more, which means more joints and complexity. Also, I think the DX9 version has more trailer details visible in Menasor mode, right? Am I mistaken? The hip flaps and sides of the lower abdomen are just directly parts of trailer, as I recall, while XTB's turns inside-out more completely. All of that contributes way more to the complexity of the figure than the two joints and two rotating panels from base mode.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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  5. Blingotron

    Blingotron Too Poor For Floor Polish

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    Please, XTB, don't add a base mode. Make Bastion as simple, sturdy and straight-forward as possible.
     
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  6. SquishyOH

    SquishyOH Spelling Chekcer

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    The Dx9 trailer is longer, but the front 1/3 goes to making their Motormaster. Only the rear 2/3 is the Menasor skeleton (about the same length as the XTB trailer). Therefore I don't think there is a heavy amount of stretching or compressing on either combiner to come up with matching heights.

    I took my XTB straight from trailer to combined and skipped base mode. But I did watch a couple of the review videos that did go to the base mode. When you say there are only 2 extra joints, does that mean you feel there are only 2 extra panel splits? I think that some of the existing joints could be a bit more simple like the Dx9 version if they parts were just a 180 degree flip and not a 360 flip to go either to base mode or to combiner plus they added a 180 pivot to the swing so the panel could reverse sides when flipping (hope that makes sense). How many joints did this affect? I honestly won't try to answer. Not sure if the single screw knees were a result of needing to twist the legs for base mode or a product of snapping the cars to the lower leg and not being able to fit a normal ratchet. My trailer transformation was long, but not impossible and very few pieces had to "bend" to work (unlike the feet on both XTB Windcharger and XTB Scourge V1).

    I do think the popular opinion is that the base mode compromised the final combined mode. I cannot say for sure how true that statement is. But I'd say that is the majority of the feedback in the XTB Menasor thread.

    Would we all agree that the masses have spoken and it is okay to skip one transformation mode if it was total trash on the original toy? The basemodes ranged from uninteresting to ridiculous on the original figures. There is certainly at least two camps of collectors. Some want bots that look like they walked off of a Sunbow studio set while others want to stick to all the original features and stylings of the toys. I don't think anyone is ready to let you produce a Sixshot figure with 4 modes because it works so much better or a sell a Blitzwing that skips the jet because it just makes the tank and bot modes suffer. But there seems to be only a tiny number of defenders who insist that if original combiner toys had a basemode then the new 3P combiners should also have a basemode. And by tiny, I mean I haven't seen anyone say that deleting a basemode would be an instant turn-off.

    I do like that XTB tries really hard to be the company that includes "that one accessory from that one episode" and multiple faceplates for each figure. In that respect they're trying to top all the little easter egg items that TakaraTomy includes with official MP figures. FansToys really seems to hate accessories and only grudgingly gives one alternate face sometimes. It just seems like sometimes XTB tries too hard to include little touches like talking Dr Egg and a basemode on Menasor and those decisions come back to bite them.
     
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  7. BIOMEC

    BIOMEC Terrorcon, aka "Ratchetman"

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    MPs are complex by nature, it feels weird when the skeleton only serves one purpose. I believe it will have a trailer mode at least.

    Some of the MP collectors don't even bother to transform their figures and going by some post here and there I assume that they don't even care about the engineering either. Hence, I wonder how many of you people will swap your collection for something similar to what Flame Toys do with their IDW stuff but G1 rather.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
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  8. pezley

    pezley Well-Known Member

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    If your DX9 capone is 1/3rd of the trailer with out the trailer you have a very different capone to mine. Its actually just shy of 1/7th of the entire trailer. XTB's Trailer & Cab is only just a fraction longer than just the disconnected trailer of DX9.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
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  9. SquishyOH

    SquishyOH Spelling Chekcer

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    Great info to be reminded of. My Dx9 Capone is still waiting on BBTS. And waiting and waiting and waiting.

    I was trying to find those photos of the FT, XTB, and Dx9 Motormasters all stacked on top of one another. That would probably be a good indication if this statement is accurate: DX9's trailer seems a lot simpler and less frustrating to transform, but I think it's longer than XTB's while producing a Menasor of nearly the same height. That means XTB had to compress their Menasor more, which means more joints and complexity.
    How much different in length are skeleton portions of XTB and Dx9? Did XTB require a whole lot more joints to compress their skeleton into a "normal" length trailer? Or are all those "complex" joints part of basemode? We're trying to figure out why XTB's trailer is so complex compared to Dx9.
     
  10. divinecomedy

    divinecomedy Board Certified Fans Trollar

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    For 300 dollars they will.

    557j5t.jpg
     
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  11. pezley

    pezley Well-Known Member

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    The base adds next to nothing as far as transformation. It's almost as if you stop mid way and just flatten things out.

    The part count on XTB is certainly because it goes from small trailer to large robot. As someone else pointed out, it also flips enside out, there's next to no trailer visible from the front of the bot. DX 9 on the other hand is rather simplistic but does help with stability but with simplistic also come less articulation.

    There's no loser in this race, all three sets so far have been great. XTB QC hiccups aside we are lucky to have three incredible well made sets
     
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  12. Tazman66gt

    Tazman66gt quieted...but never silenced.

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    sometimes I wonder if those people would be more happy with a more articulated action master style bot for their display cases.
     
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  13. Delduwath

    Delduwath Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, just to be clear: when I say that the DX9 set has a simpler transformation and more of the trailer deco is visible in combined mode, none of that is bad. All three sets so far have had slightly different goals and approaches, and have all been really cool and successful at what they were doing.
     
  14. Darthmarto

    Darthmarto Well-Known Member

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    yeah dx9 trailer was way longer, however about a third of the trailer ended up being part of motormaster himself. So really, the trailer part that transformed into menasor is about the same size as the xtb trailer.

    DX9 sounds so much more pleasurable an experience. I just dont like how it looks I'm afraid. XTB looks good, but sounds very hit and miss in terms of breakage and certainly not fun. Though i have a high tolerance for difficult transformations....I'm holding onto my XTB stunticons till fanstoys finish in case. As for Defensor? Im hoping they learned their lesson. I actually don't think they did after the initial trailer debacle. But then they had kupp and a few other issues which drove it home. They've had a cavalcade of issues, particularly QC wise, and i think they truly are trying to listen. Which is why i think they'll do a lot of reissues...they need to recoup some money. But time will tell if the QC progresses. Im hoping streetwise proves me wrong. I don't want fanstoys to be the only one in town.
     
  15. Delduwath

    Delduwath Well-Known Member

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    OK, to keep us from relying on faulty human memory, let's all thank @gaseous clay, who did the hard work for us in the XTB Stunticons thread:

    (There are more comparison photos in that post, feel free to click through, I only left the most relevant one in the quote.)

    The section of the DX9 trailer that becomes part of their Motormaster is nowhere near one-third; I measured (on the photo), and it's almost exactly one-sixth. The remaining part of the trailer, the part that becomes the body of Menasor, is actually not that much longer than the XTB trailer - but the trailer part that becomes Motormaster is actually hollow on the inside, so after you've removed the Motormaster section, you find that a portion of Menasor's feet were hidden inside the Motormaster section and are now sticking out the front of the DX9 trailer. I don't have a clear photo to measure from, but I'm estimating that those parts are about half the length of the Motormaster section of the trailer.

    The XTB trailer is a little taller but the DX9 trailer has another part of Menasor's feet just hanging there out in the open below the trailer, while XTB's hides the feet completely inside.

    The DX9 trailer is, as far as I can tell, almost completely occupied on the inside by Menasor bits. The XTB trailer has enough unoccupied space towards the back of the trailer that one of the Stunticons (I think it was Wildrider?) could fit completely inside.

    So, in summary:
    1. The portion of the DX9 trailer that becomes Menasor is noticeably larger than XTB's trailer.
    2. Approximately 50% of the volume of DX9 Menasor's feet are outside the trailer (below it, and sticking out the front, hidden in the Motormaster section). XTB's Menasor feet are completely inside the trailer.
    3. DX9's trailer is completely filled on the inside with Menasor components. Approximately 1/4 or 1/5 of the space inside the XTB trailer is empty air.

    So, yes, I feel very comfortable saying that XTB's Menasor is folded up way more inside the trailer. Like, as an example: DX9's Menasor leg transformation is almost as simple as "Split the front of the trailer in half. Extend those sections.", while XTB's leg transformation is like "Turn the front of the trailer inside out. Split the sides into multiple panels that need to fit alongside each other just so. Unfold the thighs. Unfold the sides of the thighs in elaborate ways. Clean up tons of panels and flaps and doodads."

    Now that I've thought about it a little more closely, I'd actually say that XTB's decision to make the trailer fit one of the Stunticons is way more responsible for the complexity of the trailer transformation than the inclusion of the base mode. They'd have so much more space to play with if they didn't go that route.[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
     
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  16. SquishyOH

    SquishyOH Spelling Chekcer

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    [/QUOTE]

    My desktop went out of control over the weekend, but I also found the good work of @gaseous clay
    mm step x3 MEASURED.jpg
    I didn't have the length of the XTB trailer (I'm not changing it back just for this), but I can say that that 16% of Dx9's trailer is their Motormaster. But I didn't know about a portion of Menasor's feet extending into this potion.

    So the base mode isn't causing all the trouble? It's funny that a poss above references XTB as having a "short trailer". I thought most of the outrage was the Dx9 had a trailer that was "too long".

    Personally I think most of these basemodes truly are a half transformation and pretty much just dropping the figure on its back. I'm gonna have to try and make a basemode if BBTS ever stocks my Dx9 Capone figure.
     
  17. BIOMEC

    BIOMEC Terrorcon, aka "Ratchetman"

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    Wow! Those toys are GIGANTIC!!! :eek: 
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
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  18. SquishyOH

    SquishyOH Spelling Chekcer

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    Yeah, I wasn't going to transform my trailer back just for a precise measurement. The debate was concerning relative lengths. Dumb old Bluebeam wouldn't let me go unitless.

    If anyone has any one of those as actual measurements I'd be happy to re-calibrate the measurements to actual.
     
  19. BIOMEC

    BIOMEC Terrorcon, aka "Ratchetman"

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    Does "ft" stand for feet right?
     
  20. ChromeMagnus

    ChromeMagnus Well-Known Member

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    yes
     
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