I always felt that was questionable but also a great idea as opposed to them having no combat experience.

 

I think a lot of people's answers to this question depends on whether they think comics should "BE" political (i.e. whether they are comfortable with entertainment challenging their assumptions of what is "normal"). That also informs the perspective that there's somehow this checklist that creators are "forced" to adhere to, as if diversity for its own sake weren't something that a lot of creators (who are often very progressive in their views) valued. I think it says more about the people saying that than the creators of the comics though... that they assume people only do things like that because they're forced to, or they're trying to appeal to some kind of external group, as opposed to artists speaking their truth through their art. (I thought that was the point of art?) That seems to be tied to the worldview that thinks people only do positive things because of financial or social incentives or fear of punishment as opposed to just because they fucking want to.

I see it as a great job, but as a minority (yes, yes, I know that some of you think that doesn't matter... even though this is a discussion about social issues, LOL) I always felt that representation was important. I get that these are giant robots but they've always been weirdly human giant robots, so why not use them to tackle familiar issues for humans? I also love the fact that women have become so hugely involved on the creative side. And frankly I don't mind that IDW1 has become kind of a litmus test, not so much of "politics" but more of "values." I can tell a lot about a person by the character of their criticism. (And there's plenty of valid criticism)

My issues with IDW1 have mainly to do with characterization, pacing, and executive meddling, not the fact that it triggered conservative snowflakes. I didn't feel like creators (especially Roberts, who is routinely accused of this) are motivated by the same things that people thought they were, namely "virtue signaling" or whatever that means (like "politically correct," which has become a pejorative for "treating others respectfully according to their definition of what that means," "virtual signaling" seems to be a pejorative for "openly doing, saying, or making an argument in favor of what you think is right.")

Interesting. So you primarily consume media that features characters who are, on their face, different from you? THey look different, they speak a different language, have a different background? My guess is no.

Guess what? That's the opposite of my (and pretty much every other minority's) experience.

It's easy to say shit like this when you're so overrepresented that your group has basically become "default human." But that itself is a problematic -- dare I even say repulsive -- phenomenon, because it contributes to the (already existing) perception that only people who fit within that overrepresented group are "really" people, and that only the priorities of that overrepresented group are "real" issues. (Look at how the value of representation is hand-waved by people for whom lack of representation isn't an issue, to say nothing of racism, sexism, etc.)

Ultimately, every work of art is political. The decision to not challenge any prevailing assumptions is deeply political -- even when you're talking about escapism. Because if you really wanted to escape, why would you want to take your political assumptions with you? That's half-assed escapism. Escape from your identity for a second

Optimus starting as a relatively rare good cop in a corrupt system, with the other prominent 'cop' character (Prowl) being completely amoral in spite of nominally being a good guy? I'd say that's aged well.

(PS if you think anything has changed about the relationships between the police and disenfranchised communities, that just means you're new to the party... the only thing that's changed is the prevalence of cameras to substantiate the reality of the abuse, which in the past was dismissed out-of-hand. Even with video evidence it still gets dismissed out of hand! So really the relationship between Orion Pax as a "good" individual operating within a corrupt system -- one who even becomes embittered and unnecessarily violent in his role as a law enforcer -- is more nuanced and realistic than a lot of people who hero-worship the police because they've been watching decades' worth of procedurals.

 

Yes, this, thank you. As someone who is interested in writing and art, I feel like the ability to express our thoughts through our art is important, as that is the entire point of free expression. Not everyone is going to see eye to eye on that, and that's okay, but the idea that artists cannot be genuinely expressing these views and are merely "pandering" (which can be a problem, but it has more to do with the corporate side of things than anything to do with the artists themselves) really hurts and undermines the entire purpose of art as expression.

Naturally the bots have often been used as loose analogues to humans, and in that I think it's fair to want to portray similar problems that humans have dealt with. It's just what that entails is what people seem to disagree with. I don't have much else to say on that matter, though.

I wouldn't worry, terms like that are pretty much hollow, meaningless buzzwords at this point. You'll often find that people who make use of them tend to be rather quiet if the things portrayed are something they agree with.

 

I second this.

 

You just can't please everyone so 'maybe'.

 

If you are doing this for college, I recommend putting together a structured survey. It will make a big difference in the quality of your paper.

 

You could even include questions that get at the same issues but phrased in different ways, to get some data about your target audiences' implicit biases

 

That notion is so woefully ignorant that I've skipped laughing and moved straight into pity and deep concern for people's mental health.

How could one possibly think this unless they're political ideologues themselves?

All art is political?

All art?

Are you sure? Like... absolutely positive? All art is political?

Can you explain in simple terms, and without numerous points of twisted logic? I truly am open hearing this. Then I will explain how you're completely wrong.
(Without personal attacks)

 

Objectively untrue.

This entire diatribe reeks of postmodern pseudo intellectualism, but there's a few juicy bits I really wanna draw attention to:

It's actually about if Transformers handles social issues well or not, not about you. Also this level of passive aggressiveness towards peoples responses tells me our comments really got to you, but you don't have the ability to understand our reasoning and instead are stubbornly retreat into your ideological bubble.

You aren't special and your identity doesn't give you special knowledge, I'm sorry no one told you beforehand.

I love it, people like you are incapable of making an argument without throwing out "muh minority status" when it adds nothing!     It's like a tick, you can't help yourself. You think this somehow gives you 'credibility' when it really doesn't.

Holy shit.

This entire fucking tantrum is about Dire's identity, btw, not his arguments. What if Dire is a 'minority' himself and still thinks these things? What then? Also you can't speak for "every other minority" you collectivist, you can only speak for yourself, and you seem to be doing a terrible job of THAT too.

Also I'm not sure what level reading comprehension you possess but you aren't allowed to just randomly run your mouth about real world political issues because it goes against the rules. If you're gonna come at me for 'talking down to you' despite your entire argument being talking down to everyone because you'se a minority so you're suddenly a galaxy brained sage on this subject and everyone else who isn't should shut up and check their privilege, I'm a trans woman. :^) No u. See? I can do that too, I guess that's kinda scary for someone like you because you can't just dismiss my views because I'm not a Cishet white mayyyyyyle.

It would've been nice if we could just talk about these things like regular, normal people but you had to make this about our identities because you can't seem to help yourself.

This entire post just reminds me how pitiful the educational systems around the world are these days. Feel free to respond to this but don't expect me to respond to you, I think you've made your intentions crystal clear.

 

And yet here we are, quite the pickle!

Just to be clear to everyone reading this, this is the same person whose signature was up until quite recently "The only thing McCarthy did that was wrong was stop."

I mean, prove it then? I know of no school or theorist since (and including) Plato who would make this claim. But I am all eyes. go on, even if it's ya boy Peterson! I promise I won't laugh.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/b...iversity-inclusion-commitment-new-commissions

Just gonna leave this here. Thoughts?

A historic quip in one's signature is quite different than elaborate posts about politics, is it not? It's not against the rules. Why make mention of it?

 

It's literally against the rules.

 

OP this is your best bet. This forum isn't really the place for addressing real world things without upsetting people's fantasy apple carts.

 

If only we could talk about this like "regular normal people". Pray tell, what are regular normal people, and how do they talk? Not about their identities, even in the context of a discussion about social issues and how those issues relate to fiction... aside from monopolizing the status of being regular and Normal, apparently. As if staking out territory of being regular and normal as opposed to the rest of us isn't a statement of identity, and one suffused with unearned privilege at that . LMAO like, how extensively have you surveyed humanity to even assume that you and your point of view is normal? Given your ineptitude interacting with differing viewpoints on this site, I think it's a pretty safe guess that you generally surround yourself with like-minded people. Has it even occurred to you that maybe IM the regular normal one? That's not something that would come up in an echo chamber though

You're literally the poster child for everything I'm talking about but since the dunning-kruger effect is real I'm not going to waste any more time on you

All art, whether or not created with a political intent, feeds into Political outcomes because it either reinforces or undermine the assumptions that underlie our culture and Society. The fact that certain works are singled out as political and others are able to fly under the radar entirely simply speaks to which assumptions they are either reinforcing or undermining.

I'm sure you're familiar with the idea that doing nothing is itself a decision, right? Well not consciously choosing to be political is also a political decision. It's just similar to "doing nothing". What's interesting is you think inaction is particularly praiseworthy. Does that carry over to anything aside from art?

There's been a lot of academic theory about this, I would encourage you to Google it since you seem to care so much about that kind of stuff. But another thing that's also been clearly established and theorized about ad nauseam is people's incapacity to observe things they've already decided don't exist, whether those things are real or not.

 

I will take short breaks to eat or nap, but otherwise, I will be applauding for the next 5 days straight.

 

Soplisism?

 

"I think it takes a certain amount of narcissism to demand other creators make characters that you want to see rather than learn to make your own stories."

You don't appreciate the irony of YOU being the one doing this? You're literally denying Roberts any agency in HIS OWN CREATION by insisting he's pandering, because he's not making the stories you want him to. LMAO

 

Hrm. I don't want to say that all art is political - while all art can be, not all of it necessarily is.

That said, political stories do tend to be among the most well remembered and even popular. Watchmen comes to mind.
I don't know that a Transformers story should try to be a Watchmen style political commentary, but when some of the most popular fiction is itself rooted in politics, people really shouldn't be surprised that other writers try their hand at a similar approach. That's not to say everyone can do it well, it takes a good writer to make the politics work with the story they're trying to tell, and we could probably go on all day about the failings of writers - for Transformers or not - to properly address it in a meaningful way that fits into the story.

So, to be on topic, did this work for Transformers?

Eeeeeh. It's a mixed bag, and I think it depends on whether or not you think the social issues they came up with made any sense. Functionism, basically a caste system based on one's default alternate mode at their forging, rejects the notion of the Transformer's inherent ability to change their form and thus change their function; it looks down on forms which serve no practical function, such as beast forms, and shuns abilities that have no relation to the function of an alternate mode as being aberrant. Does the idea of Functionism even make sense to develop among a race that inherently has the ability to change their function in the first place? Some might say "no", but on the other hand, humans have developed biases and prejudices that don't make a whole lot of sense based on things inherent to ourselves, things we can't change, or can't easily change in some cases. I don't see why alien robots couldn't also develop ideas we might consider nonsensical.

Personally, I find Functionism to be a potentially interesting idea in theory. For a race that can freely alter everything about themselves, the concept of an ideology that rigidly restricts that ability and rejects it would be a great source of conflict, and ironically enough I feel like if any character would subscribe to it, it would be Megatron himself.

 

Red alert in idw1 had some issues. And of course sandstorm who suffered from PTSD which was handled well....

 

Can they change their alt mode's function, though? Most examples I can think of required completely reformatting the original body, and it was usually through unnatural, not readily accessible means of doing so. And most upgrades usually keep the alt mode reasonably in line with the original one.