I'd agree the Kazon were essentially the Pakleds of the Delta Quadrant in that they'd stolen all of their technology. But unlike the Pakled, the Kazon aren't so incompetent that they couldn't eventually figure out how to use and fix the technology they got their hands on. I mean, we never saw them having issues with their ships. Really, the only time we saw them have a problem with a piece of technology was they they tried to build their own replicator from plans they got from Seska, and it blew up in their faces. But that was new to them and doesn't mean they wouldn't have eventually figured it out. Even Voyager itself they quickly learned how to operate (albeit probably with help from Seska) when it was briefly in their possession. The Caretaker's array probably would have been a lot more complicated, but again, that doesn't mean the Kazon couldn't have done anything with it. Both Voyager and the Caretaker himself believed the Kazon were capable of using the Array to destroy the Ocampa at least.

This was something we saw Janeway regretted later on in the series. Given the choice to do it over, Janeway probably would have sacrificed herself to send the crew home, but sacrificing a member of the crew like that is generally a last resort if there are no other options to save the ship/crew from certain destruction. Ultimately, they could (and did) survive taking the long way home. Besides, given Voyager (and the Maquis raider until it was sacrificed) was having a difficult time with a fleet of Kazon ships attacking them, I can't imagine a lone crewmember being able to pull off destroying the Array without the resources of Voyager backing them up. And considering they wanted to make sure the array was completely destroyed so the Kazon couldn't salvage any of it, if they'd left something behind on a timer, they wouldn't have been able to make sure it was totally destroyed, or the Kazon may have disabled it, after they'd gone.

 

So do we know why not every single ship was destoryed by the burn? Was it only ships that were actively at warp? Or was it just a case of those ships(ie Voyager) got EXTREMELY lucky?

 

So speaking of legacy registries....

Spoiler

I see that following Discovery's retrofit, it gets a new registry number: NCC-1031-A. Which, they really shouldn't have added an A. I'd compare this to the refit the Enterprise got in TMP, it isn't a new ship named in honor of Discovery.

 

Kind of a setup episode but looks like it will pick up from here and expand the storyline.

Would be funny if they found out it was Q who caused the burn with a snap of his finger just for the fun of it.

 

Found the new episode, Scavengers, a bit boring. And I don't know why, because there were definitely things I wanted to see. More world building and Burnham finally being called out and punished for acting like she did. And this time, her regret over letting Saru down wasn't the forced emotion we had at the start of the season. But I just couldn't get into the story. Doesn't help of course that I care little for Burnham and Georgiou, so the only parts I enjoyed were with the other characters. Maybe the talked about mission for Discovery should've happened, to make that part more interesting. It could also drive home more how Burnham abandoned them.


Was a bit baffled by the Starfleet stuff om the salvage planet. I thought I saw 24th century hand phasers and comm-badges, while the few ships I saw looked like 23rd century ships. Why? Wasn't this to salvage things from the Burn? Why would these things still be availabe 7-800 years after their first use? Comm-badges and hand phasers would've been phased out and recycled a long time ago, and the same for the starships -- they'd definitely wouldn't still be in use at the time of The Burn. Unless this was a graveyard of a Dominion battle.

Also, something my GF pointed out: Georgiou shot down some of those ships and they crashed...on the building which were likely filled with people, be it the newly arrived shift or those from the previous shift who didn't participate in the escape...so a whole lot of innocent people died at that moment.

As a legacy registry it definitely doesn't work, but as you pointed out there are quite a few ships with this kind of registry so maybe we should let go of that idea? As far as I know, the whole concept of a Legacy Registry explanation is non-canonical.

I can see it working as an administration thing. The USS Discovery, NCC-1031, was reported destroyed in the 23rd century. So a Discovery from the same class with the same registry in the 32nd century would be confusing from an administrative point of view. Slightly altering makes it possible to distinguish them. With the Enterprise it wasn't needed because it was clear that it was the exact same ship, but with Discovery this would be troublesome (if only because it would mean illegal time-travel).

 

Why would we let go of the idea of the legacy registry lettering system just because there are quite a few ships with it? By the 32rd century, I'd expect many ships would have done something to distinguish themselves to earn that honor. And I don't agree that it'd work from an administrative point of view. Regardless of the ship being reported destroyed in the 23rd century, they've obvious set the record straight here. And they've made no attempts to cover up the fact the ship time travelled from what we've seen (the Admiral didn't even seem bothered by them time-travelling once he knew the circumstances for it), so it would seem they fully acknowledge it is the same ship. From an administrative point of view, adding the letter actually confuses things, given it is the exact same ship, not a new one. Even for argument's sake we say they did cover up the time travel involvement... Why would Starfleet suddenly name a new ship after a ship from 900 years ago, that as far as they should know, didn't do anything significant because most of the records about it was erased?

 

The more there are, the less special it becomes. And if adding an A to the registry is because the previous ship with this name did something special, then why add it to the Discovery which is still the exact same ship, just upgraded (and based on TMP and All Good Things..., an upgrade does not get a (new) letter added to it), while we also have an example (the DS9 Defiant) that had a good reputation but the second one did not get an A-suffix to the registry.

Do we even know this is now common knowledge among Starfleet commanding officers?

There's also a difference between the other Starfleet captains knowing and others finding out. Time travel is illegal in this era. If other powers would know that Starfleet now has a ship that time travelled and thus harbours time travellers (=criminals), this might have political fall out. There's also the risk of becoming a target, either Starfleet or the Discovery, in case there are still those who want to possess time travel technology and see Discovery as a way of getting this. Covering up this is the same ship, would then be prudent. Especially since if this was a new ship the registry would be somewhere in the hundreds of thousands (24th century was already in the 70000's so 900 years later....) thus a low registry is a dead give away that something's up.

First, name reuse is very, very common in real life and Star Trek. There are so many examples of ships that accomplished little, yet still have a name that was used later again. It could even be that a ship's name already was special and thus reusing it references the original, pre-Starfleet name. In case of Discovery: several Earth Naval ships from the 17th to 19th century or the space shuttle. Plenty of reason to name it Discovery without honouring the Starfleet ship.

Two ships with the same name of the same class with the same registry. That sounds confusing to me. Doesn't matter if they're separated by 900 years. And if they want to keep hidden that this ship time travelled and is thus the exact same ship, then adding the A would accomplish exactly that.


But since you disagree, I'd like to hear your explanation. If according to you it's not for administrative reasons nor for it being a legacy ship, then why did they add A when it's only a refit?

 

Managed to catch a repeat of Thursday's episode but due to the channel (CTV Sci-fi aka Space) airing that episode acting all glitchy, I gave up (the programmable matter parts were cool)

 

 

I haven’t started watching this season yet so maybe this is mentioned in a episode, but could it be that there’s an other U.S.S. Discovery in service in this future?

After all the worlds a USS discovery in service during the first season of TNG

If there’s another one in service that might be why they went with the A suffix

 

I don't feel it's meant to be special because it's rare, but simply as a high honor to a particular ship that did something distinguished enough to earn future vessel's not only carrying on the name but by recognizing that ship specifically by carrying on it's specific registry, albeit with a letter to distinguish the new ship. There being many ships to have earned such legacies doesn't take away from the accomplishments of each ship.

The Sao Paulo/Defiant, as has already been pointed out, the creators of DS9 did want to give the A suffix to its registry. The only reason it didn't boils down to the budget not allowing them to redo the stock footage to add an A, so for consistency sake of the visuals in the episodes with the new Defiant, they had to leave off the A.

Considering they've freely talked about aspects of the Discovery being from the past, such as how the crew is adapting and the Discovery receiving upgrades to 32nd century technology in a couple of the command briefings we've seen, I'd say it is common knowledge among Starfleet command. They even mentioned the Spore Drive in one of those meetings, and that's the only bit of information we've seen them say doesn't leave that room. Not to mention, how could they miss a 23rd century era starship parked next to Starfleet HQ for three weeks while it got refit? Discovery likely got just as much intrigue when it arrived as the Discovery crew expressed towards all the future Starfleet vessels.

And yet, the Admiral immediately dropped the issue of them time travelling when they explained they had to do it to save all organic life in the universe. Earth, despite easily being able to identify Discovery as 23rd century construction and poke holes in their cover story, really didn't seem to press the issue either. Even Book, beyond mentioning time travel was outlawed, really didn't seem to care Burnham was from the past after they first met. Despite time travel being illegal in this century, they really haven't treated it that way at all, when there has been zero repercussions or even any controversy shown for the Discovery crew being in the future.

I'm not sure why you're pointing this out... I'm not disputing that names of ships get reused all the time. What I'm talking about is the use of registry numbers, particularly as it pertains to the reuse of registry numbers with a letter suffix to distinguish a new ship named specifically for a previous Starfleet vessel with the same name and registry. They wouldn't have used the NCC-1031 registry if they were simply reusing the name Discovery. The reuse of a registry specifically makes it a reference to the ship with the same name and registry that originated it. If they were just simply reusing the name, it would have a new registry number altogether, like we saw with the Constitution class (NCC-1764) and the Defiant class (NX-74205) Defiants.

It's not two ships with the same name and class we're talking about here though. It's the same ship that got a refit.

It does matter than they're separated by 900 years. Why would they suddenly decide to name a new ship Discovery and give it the same registry as the one from 900 years ago, a ship that had no significance as far as their database is concerned? Having such a low registry number, 1031, and only being on the second ship to bare the name, as the A indicates, is no less suspect either. It doesn't hide the time travel aspect of their journey whatsoever. If there is an Enterprise still around in this century, what letter do you think they're on in the 32nd century, when they were up to the letter J in the 26th century? If they were going to try to hide Discovery's time travel by adding a letter, they would have gone with a much higher letter than an A.

Frankly, I think the creators just thought they should give it a letter because they gave the ship a refit, without understanding it's meant to be new ships bearing the same name and registry that gets a letter. Edit: They made the same mistake in the Short Trek episode "Ephraim and Dot", in which they gave the Enterprise refit an A in its registry (which was also positioned wrong on the hull in one of the shots), when it obviously shouldn't have had any letter suffix.

 

Of course the Admiral dropped it immediately, because outside of them doing it to save the future (as they claimed and which he didn't investigate) an accustation wouldn't stand up in court: something is not illegal until the law is in place, and then it's only illegal when done after the law has come in effect. Discovery time travelled when this wasn't (yet) illegal, thus you cannot prosecute them for it. Furthermore, Starfleet is thus weakened that every ship is a bonus.

But this wouldn't stop other powers from claiming the Federation harboured time-travellers/criminals, because facts are not always important in politcal accusations. It's not the Federation or Earth or Book who's the issue in those cases, but something like the Orion/Andorians might be a problem. They might use this to undermine the Federation or attempt to steal the time travel technology. Thus not announcing to the world that part of their fleet has time travelled is important.

Also, we've seen several times now that pre-burn tech is worth quite a lot. Pristine 23rd century technology is valuable. Advertising that Discovery is a ship from the 23rd century and thus filled with very valuable pre-Burn tech is painting a big target on themselves: the ship and the Federation.

Both can be avoided by changing the registry to A, since the 1031 registry makes clear it's a very old ship (the creator of the initial series even stated that registry number would emphasise when this series took place), while 1031-A doesn't have to be an old ship.

Absolutely. That is THE reason: the creators of the show screwed up. They added an A to the registry when this runs counter to established canon (the previous examples of (heavily) upgraded ships did not get the letter added). It's the real world reason, similarly to how the second DS9 Defiant was intended to get an A suffix, but it wasn't possible for the CGI effects. And likewise for the Enterprise-A that only got this letter added because the creators wanted to maintain the real world legendary registry. (Side information, but according to the TNG companion the TNG Enterprise was originally going to be the NCC-1701-7...making it less special because 1701-7 is quite similar to 17017.)

But those are real world reasons. What is the in-universe reason for the added A?

A simple question: has it ever been established in canon (i.e. a movie or an episode) that adding the letter is because of this legacy explanation? Or is it based on comments from writers (like the meaning of NCC which was given in external, licensed products and thus not canon)? Or is it even more vague as in fan interpretation?

Because we're discussing it as if it has special meaning, but is there any foundation for this? (All I could find on Memory Alpha was a mention that this was done to honour the previous ship with a referance to ST:IV, but no mention that this was done as an honorary registraty in the ST:IV article, or in the movie itself.)

Still, for the Enterprise this can work and likewise would've worked in case the DS9 Defiant got the A suffix (and was Moore's intent). But it cannot work for the Discovery because 1) it's the exact same ship, and 2) until the admiralty found out what special thing Discovery did, there was only the pre-Starfleet history of the name. In-universe it seems unlikely that adding the A was for the special legacy.

This is why I suggested that it was perhaps an administrative reason. Because the few times we've actively seen the A added in canon (or when it was going to be added) was when the second use of the name was for a ship of the exact same design with the exact same command crew: the Enterprise-A was again a Constitution-refit with the exact same command crew and if the Defiant had gotten the A it would've again be the same class with the same command crew. Likewise, the Discovery is the exact same class with the exact same command crew.

Same name, same class, same command = possible explanation for a letter suffix (and in case of the Discovery, covering up that it's actually a ship from the past).

 

You’re right. I don’t think there is an in universe reason stated. However, the ST IV example specifically seemed heavily implied to be honoring the crew. They had to punish Kirk for the theft of the Enterprise, but giving him command of the A seemed to be acknowledging the fact that they saved the federation from the probe. I don’t know if that helps with Discovery’s case, but the hiding it from being so old does make sense to me.

 

If the Admiral couldn't prosecute Discovery for time travelling because it was not a crime when they time travelled from, then why tell them their presence in the 32nd century "by definition is a crime" in the first place? There's no reason for him to tell them they've committed a crime if there wasn't anything he could actually charge them with or do about it. It's also more than an accusation when the crew freely admitted to time travelling during their debrief, not to mention there's plenty of future tech we've seen a little of that'd easily prove they're from the 23rd century. I also have to point out, there is such as thing as ex post facto laws, in which crimes committed before a law was established can face legal action. In many countries today such laws are prohibited, but considering the very nature of time travel... That and the Admiral told Saru and Burnham the Temporal Accords were established to prevent anyone from the past changing the future and vise versa.

I'd have to imagine if this was a concern, they would have already addressed it in the series. Besides, the Emerald Chain is a crime syndicate, they're already undermining the Federation, and I'd have to doubt they'd care to raise issues over legalities or politics. Also not sure why you think they'd be interested in obtaining time travel technology. There's been no indication anyone in this century is interested in time travel. It used to be a standard technology from what we saw of 29th and 30th century technology. For all we know, they still have access to such technology, but following the Temporal Wars and subsequently became outlawed, is simply no longer used. The only issue they've raised in the series about Discovery potentially being targeted for anything is because of their reserves of dilithium, which is something that doesn't matter what era they're from given the scarcity of dilithium in this century.

Once again, simply adding an A doesn't do anything for such a low registry number, when other ship registries that originated from the same century as Discovery are much, MUCH higher in the alphabet by the 32nd century. As I pointed out before, the Enterprise was up to the letter J in the 26th century. If there is still an Enterprise around, who knows what letter they're up to by now. The Tikhov seed vault ship had the registry NCC-1067-M, which would indicate it's origins also around the same time as Discovery, but yet, has had 14 generations of ships over the centuries. Even Voyager, with a registry that originated in the 24th century, is up to the letter J in the 32nd century, giving it 11 generations as the crew themselves observe. If they were going to add a letter to Discovery's registry to try and hide the fact it time travelled, they would have gone with a much higher letter.

I don't really care to speculate on something there is no precedent for in-universe, when this isn't how we've ever seen a legacy registry like this come about, and even contradicts what we've seen with a refit. As far as I'm concerned, it's simply a mistake.

 

So how does detaching the nacelles make a ship more maneuverable in space exactly?

 

Yes lets remove our engines mid flight. Which is what they fricken are. I'm sure that will go well. When the writers of the show have no idea how the Damn ship works....

 

Well it’s not like they have to worry about falling to the ground like a plane

Keep in mind I haven’t seen any of the episodes yet so I don’t know if they were inside an atmosphere

 

So far, only moored in spacedock. Haven't seen discovery fly post refit.

I don't know how the manoeuvring is helped, nor do i particularly care. Future science technobabble. All i care about is how does the warp plasma and any other streams get from the warp core to the nacelle coils? That's a physical thing that has to cross a vacuum now. Also, watching the trekyards video, seems the crossbeams in the saucer have gone (have personal transporters replaced turbolifts?) And theres holes in the secondary hull. It didn't look it on the show, but that video makes it look almost like a tmp connie level or refit. Hopefully she'll fly this week and we'll get a good look at her.

 

I was thinking about this show today.. and some other things that happened in the history of the franchise. Discovery is working it's way toward the end of it's third season. Not yet sure what the end is going to be. I wonder.. will they even scratch the heels of these season finales?

Star Trek TNG Arguably one of the greatest season finales in all of television history.

Star Trek Voyager Quite attention grabbing.

DS9's was ok.. but a little mundane.

Enterprise's was less grand.. but still somewhat exciting.

 

Warp nacelles are fairly pointedly not manouvering thrusters or impulse engines. The Enterprise D fairly famously could seperate into two sections, and the saucer section had its own impulse engines.

 

Trekyards puts it eloquently. Its 32nd century technology that we cant wrap our monkey brains around. They have to make some attempts to expand beyond Enterprise J thats ONLY 26th century and i cant wrap my monkey brain around including its sheer size