Because our 80s toys didn't, and that's what a lot of us wanted.

 

I only want it for MPs. I don't need it for CHUG and actually greatly prefer the Classics/Henkei/United/Reveal the Shield style of being different.

 

Guess I'm one of the outliers now who even as a youngun knew the cartoon was a commercial for the toys & now lean more towards the perfect representation crowd rather than perfect toon because of it.

For a time folk were arguing how having the + series was going to offer figures for both sides so folk shouldn't complain, but we can now see how that fizzled out. don't blame the toon crowd for that, blame takara for half-assing it.

 

I just want Hasbro to include interchangeable heads. Let the cartoon crowd have the cartoon head & let the toy crowd have the toy head. I'm totally pissed off at Hasbro for forcing the cartoon head/faces constantly. They can easily include a toy accurate head that you could swap out. Customizing a toy accurate face is a pain in the ass. And Shapeways is way too expensive, they charge $8.99 to ship a tiny piece the size of a pea.

Except for Ratchet & Ironhide, I hate cartoon accuracy. I was all about the toys when I was a kid. The cartoon ruined most of the characters by giving them human faces. They're robots not humans. They don't need eyes, noses & mouths. If I wanted human faces I could watch GI Joe, MASK, MOTU or any other cartoon. I fell in love with Transformers because of the toys & the box art, not the cartoon. Hasbro has been totally screwing me with the constant cartoon accurate faces. I don't even recognize my Misfire, Triggerhappy or Slugslinger figures. I never even saw those characters in the cartoon when I was a kid. My only memory of those characters were the toys & the awesome box art. Why did they feel the need to change their faces in the cartoon anyway? Misfire had eyes, not a visor & Slugslinger had a visor, not eyes. Was that change even necessary? What was the point?

 

This is exactly how I feel. The MP line is a perfect line for focusing on toon accuracy. It's just a shame in doing so, they have priced the line beyond my spending limits. But that being said, even if I could afford toon accurate MPs, I don't have to have the accuracy myself. As long as it somewhat looks like the character where you can still tell who it is, is a well designed figure, and won't break the bank, I'm fine with it.

 

What do you mean by lazy transformations?

I think the concept of bad proportions really depends on the character. Gears looks a bit weird, Inferno and Grapple have a bit of a belly, but the Autobots are supposed to be the everyday kinda people so they shouldn't look like warriors.

I assume you're referring to G1 here.

I think other posters have explained pretty well why some of us like cartoon accuracy. But I'm curious about you guys who have mentioned 'realistic' as a goal. I think realistic is pretty subjective, right? These are space aliens, so it's not unrealistic to imagine them having shiny metal sheets of smooth 'skin' rather than designs covered in greebles. I actually feel like the 'greebles' make them seem more like man-made machines, MP-10 looks more like a mecha to me compared with MP-44, for example.

 

IMO the preference to a character's look is rooted in the medium you enjoyed the character(s) in the first place the most.
Example: I love the G1 Optimus Prime toy, but I much prefer the G1 toon look over the toys. If the G1 toon design was slavish to the toy my favorite character might be someone else...like Grimlock. But, the Grimlock toy, as cool as it was wasn't perfect, the bot head sat way too far back, without the tweaks (and freedom) that animation brings his on screen representation would have suffered.
Personally I'm not looking for the best (insert medium here) representation, I'm just looking for the best version of the toy (that I can afford) and if it so happens to be a particular representation so be it.
MP44 (and all the other G1 3P offerings) might be the best versions of the G1 toon OP, and MP10 is the best updated version of the G1 toy, but the BB movie OP might be my overall preferred look for the character.
So, to answer the original post: people like what they like.

 

Yes, it is subjective.

You have the movie versions that does "full realistic", but ends up being overly "cables and gears" exposed that a thrown screwdriver should take them down...

To me, it's more about looking as if they could be real robots with the idea that they are robots. I don't like the faces thing with them moving lips and moving eyebrows and eyes twitching and such when talking for example. Real life engineering would mean a limited number of moving parts for transformation so overly complex robots would have trouble holding together and the transformation would require a fair amount of time to do and not the speed-up instant thing.

When the toy can be taken and taken a picture at an angle that makes it look "real" and it nails it, it really does have an impact on how ones views the toy I find.

So yup, I agree that too much "greebles" as you call it, doesn't really add any more than the movies version that looked more like wires held together with a few parts of covering... I'd rather the robot still look in part with some of the alt mode, and in a way that's more refined than done wrong. Some people had done some amazing CGIs where they did a BumbleBee and an Optimus that transformed, and looked like the cartoon brought to like and looked amazing... regrettably, I can't find them anymore, I should have saved those videos, as they would be a perfect example.

To me cartoon such as TFs, Macross, Gundam, Chogokin, etc. that are more "adult themes", feels more about "can't be done in real world" as it would look weird or off than anything more, but more and more CGI versions being done are coming closer and closer to the realism that I really enjoy.

 

Because toy engineering has gotten to the point where we CAN have screen-accurate figures that are also just damn good toys. We are in the timeline where we can have both boxes checked, so it's nice to have. I think there's room for both styles of figures (screen-accurate vs modern updates) and the pendulum shifts back and forth. If you prefer the latter, we'll get figures like that again eventually.

 

What does Dinosaurs have to do with anything? I never said anything about Dinosaurs.

 

Toys for me. For the early characters, I generally prefer the diacloney charm of those early G1 toys to the flat and bland cartoon look (and I like the cartoon). I especially almost always prefer the toy head to the toon head across the board in G1, with few exceptions.

I want to see modern Ratchet and Ironhide toys based on the G1 toys--I would love to see how Hasbro would sculpt their sticker faces after seeing how well they sculpted the Powerdashers' sticker faces.

 

Because the disguise is usually a man-made machine, so I'd expect that to reflected in their appearance when they transform back. I like it when Optimus looks like a truck that grew arms and legs. I love TR Megatron because he looks like a robot constructed from jet and tank parts, rather than a robot with a few bits of jet & tank kibble.

I'm not talking so much about the random greebly stuff we saw on Siege figures, but the detailing you'd expect to carry over from the altmode. Stuff that adds details that make the vehicles more authentic. Rivets and gas caps and Prowl's police car markings and the handrails you see on MP10 and the more vibrant deco of the original Optimus Prime trailer stripes and the more detailed stripe pattern and racing livery on Jazz. Sculpted fur on Optimus Primal and scales on BW Megatron. The stuff that was (normally) omitted or simplified in the cartoon for ease of animation. All those details would be essential for a plausible disguise, so IMO the toys should have them to a reasonable degree.

And that extends to the robot-only parts as well. I don't see the need for greeble explosion, but I don't like undetailed, either. Or a bland deco. My favorite official Optimus of last year was Star Convoy, because the basic robot has so much detail - character! - taken from the original toy. I loved that it had the vents on his faceplate from the original toy, rather than the smooth faceplate we normally get. It's a nice mechanical detail that emphasizes his robotic nature.



I'm not sure I agree with your idea that TF "skin" would be smooth - they'd have to be opened up for repairs. So there would either be seams and access panels or scars from where the skin was welded. Access panels would be the more practical option for a race that is built/engineered. And that's what the layering on SC Optimus' shoulders look like to me.

He's far more believable as a "real" depiction of the robotic Optimus Prime in my eyes than the softer-detailed, less-detailed, smoother MP44. (Plus I just don't care for the plain block shoulders of the animation model.) He may be a living machine, but he's still a machine and to my mind should look like one. I agree that such detailing can be taken too far, but for me an animation focus results in too little detail.


I'm not in favor of random greebles, but authentic detailing that would be needed for plausible disguise, and for a realistic depiction of the character.

One last illustration:


Here we have my current two favorite Primes. Both have a good amount of detailing on them - panel lines, armor, vibrant deco (especially after I labelled ER Optimus). ER has visible side mirrors and wipers, details that would be omitted if he were toon-accurate, but which add character and realism to the toy. He's show inspired, but not really show accurate. Jetpower Revive has more obvious mechanical elements, most notably the articulated smokestacks and wheels embedded in his upper arms, but he still feels like a character to me, not a mecha. For me a more ... visually streamlined show accurate version of either would feel like a serious downgrade.

 

And here's where the first appearance of the Autobot triple changers in the UK comic leaps to mind, because Furman specifically mentioned living metal in a rather descriptive bit of text about their transformation, which left me with a distinct impression of a metallic biology (rather than carbon-based) instead of hunks of metal bolted together. In fact that passage has always suggested some degree of, well, rubberiness to their metal. Which meshed well with the depiction in the cartoon.

And that's where my mental image, and preference for the cartoon look, really comes from  

 

Why G1 Toon Accurate Transformers:
G1 Toon Accurate Transformers are a physical manifestation of the joy and happiness I get, when I watch G1 Transformers episodes, or the 86 Movie. Every time I walk into my Transformers collection room, and look upon all of the amazingly colorful toon accurate G1 figures, I get a rush of joy as my imagination just runs wild with excitement! Only G1 Toon Accurate Transformers figures can do this for me.

Why not Bayformers???
To me Bayformers just look lazy, and completely uncreative. It's like all they did was splay an object open, grabbed the guts and said:
"Look it's a hand or...um...something?! For the legs...um...Fuck!!!...I don't really know how to give this thing legs!...so it can just have...um...wheels for legs...or something...um...fuck!...um...yeah...um...that should work! And this blob of random stuff...it...um...it can be...um...a face!...I think?...oh well...it...um...it dosen't really look like a face...um...at all...um...but who cares because it's...um...an alien!...And for the body...um...dang it!...oh well...it is what it is!...Now lets add a bunch of little details that a mechanical...um...thingy would have!...and now we have...um...Fuck!!...I don't even...um...a...um...Trans...um...a Transformer???!!!! I think???"
I honestly get angry, upset, and frustrated every time I see a Bayformer. To me Bayformers just look like complete meaningless, gloomy, depressing garbage. And I don't think Bayformers should even be associated with Transformers at all.

Why not new Transformers characters???
I will always be looking for more ways to make my Transformers collection even more G1 and Toon accurate. If new Transformers don't help me to achieve this goal, I do not care for them. I will only buy a new version of a figure, if it looks more G1 and Toon accurate than the version I already have.

Final thought:
To put it plain and simple, Hasbro can make whatever they want, and call it whatever they like. But if it's not G1 Toon Accurate, they will never see my money.

 

And majority of the fandom shares the same overly extreme attitude. Which basically forces toon accuracy on everybody.

Most of you fail to realize that not all of us watched the toon much. Where I grew up, my TV station constantly played the same handful of season 1 episodes over & over & over again. Usually the 1st 3 or 4 episodes. I've seen them leave Cybertron & crash on Earth more than anything else. Most of the characters past season 1 never showed up in the show. I had all the toys but never saw most of them in the show. My memories are 90% toys - 10% toon.

Like I said, the best solution is packing 2 heads in the box. If Hasbro can do it for Marvel Legends they can do it for Transformers.

Why do I have to be forced to display every Trailbreaker I get with the stupid human face when I don't remember that face? I remember the toy face. I saw Trailbreaker in the show only once or twice. I have no attachment to Trailbreaker with a goofy human face. But now all my modern toys look like that & I have no choice. The only option I really have is learn a CAD program & make my own Shapeways parts. Which would add to the price of the base figure. But where do I learn a CAD program? I tried a few years ago but got nowhere. Who teaches it? Do I really need to go through all that trouble?

Problem #1 The cartoon didn't use all the characters evenly. Only a handful were constantly used while others got hardly any screen time.
Problem #2 My TV station constantly repeated a small handful of episodes.

Which makes me a toy accuracy guy that has to suffer with nothing but toon accuracy in a fandom that worships & is totally obsessed with toon accuracy.

 

Yeah you definitely make a very good point. I would definitely be down for 2 heads.

 

I was just thinking, the Transformers fans that love toon accuracy always get what they want.
Marvel Legends fans can swap heads so they get what they want.
Power Rangers fans get the human head or the helmet to swap between.
That new GI Joe Baroness came with an alternate Motorcycle helmet.
Does Star Wars Black Series ever come with alternate heads?
Masters Of The Universe Classics also did it. I still want Battleground Evil-Lyn.

Pretty much it's only the Transformers fans who like the original G1 toys that are getting screwed. No wonder I'm always so pissed off & hateful. Takara gave MP Bumblebee both heads that you could swap between so why can't they do that with all the Transformers figures? BOOM! Problem solved!

 

Fair enough. Me, I want the ideal version I imagined when watching the show, reading the comics and playing with the toys, or a reasonable approximation thereof. In general, animation model profile with toy detail, though the mix varies from character to character. Not to mention the occasional "holy cr@p that looks awesome" new interpretation of a character, such as TRPMOP or TR Megatron.

It's interesting that you focus on these two extremes. I agree that Bayformers are way too busy and alien looking. But the basic idea of being more detailed is sound, they just took it to a ridiculous extreme. That's why I prefer something like ER Prime , a realistically-detailed take on the animation model, with enough detail added to make it look plausible as a real world entity. Of course, he's not my primary Prime but he could be if I hadn't already gotten the super posable, nicely detailed and interesting interpretation of Optimus that is Jetpower Revive.

But my basic point is there's a wide range of detail level and style between G1 animation spartan and Bayverse walking techsplosion. IMO the best figures lie in the middle, like the two I mentioned. I thought the initial release MP Prowl was too plain, but Reprolabels added in lots of nice additional deco. And then Takara did the plus release which had an even less detailed deco to match the show! That blew my mind - I just can't see myself ever being happy with a pure cartoon look.

And if it is slavishly G1 toon accurate, they won't see mine. Gimme some visual interest! Like I've said before in this thread, I want the figures to look like the character brought to life in the real world, rather than a walking cartoon. At the very least, I'd want the toy to look like what the cartoon might have done if it had a decent animation budget and schedule. I love the cartoon, but I don't think the toys' look should be limited by Sunbow's tight animation budget back then.

A head swap alone won't do it in most cases. For instance, SS86 Jazz needs door wings and lots of additional deco - his head is fine.

 

I've been saying that all along. Most of the 80's toy lines & cartoons flopped. The animators had no idea Transformers would become so huge. They were just doing a job to collect a paycheck. They were lazy & cut corners (like chopping off Jazz' door wings). Now most fans worship the laziness. Most fans want the corners cut instead of having the best possible figure. They want less paint & less detail.

I can't stand it but what can you do?

They can at least do it when it will work. Characters like Bumblebee, Wheeljack, Trailbreaker, Tracks, Windcharger, Pipes, Huffer, Brawn, Slugslinger, Misfire & Triggerhappy only need a simple head swap.

 

I definitely understand this way of thought. I guess I'm just an emotional transformers collector, in that I am only willing to collect what invokes certain emotional feelings deep within. And I can definitely see how this can also be a problem for other transformers collectors, who don't have those same emotional attachments to the visual aesthetic of certain characters. And I'm sure for people who aren't beholden to the Sunbow animation, some of the characters definitely look like they could use some type of improvements or change. But for me it just wouldn't feel the same if they did change them, And I would just completely loose my drive to want to display them, because they wouldn't give me the same feelings anymore.