Indeed. And I can't stress it enough, but the problem is that, as I mentioned before, aside from Arcee, the new characters get little to no depth, so that is another thing that bothers me (but at least season three made up for that).

And yeah, I also agree about Springer. For me, he always was the weakest of the characters introduced in the movie.

 

I agree that the first 30 minutes is the best of the film. The jarring transitions, though, are what makes the movie memorable to me. And it keeps you on the edge of your seat going "what? WHAT? WHHHAAAATT?"

There's obviously more Autobots in the city...you see tons of gunfire through the night into day scene. The carcasses of Wheeljack and Windcharger pretty much indicate there's plenty of dead Autobots all over the place...it was surprise attack that seemed to have wiped out a good chunk of the denizens from the get go. As for more combiners, the script was written prior to Hasbro making Menasor and Superion. It takes two years to make the film, so the script was probably written during Season 1, with only Devastator being a thing at that point - and why many other late season 2 characters don't make appearances. But you can probably ask where Skyfire was in all of that...that's totally valid.

At best, Hot Rod got him killed by interfering. That's not quite the same as saying he killed him. But really, like others said, Optimus hesitated and Hot Rod was trying to stop Megatron from taking advantage of the hesitation (and only made things worse).

They were established in the Attack on Autobot City. Love them or hate them, you got a lot of their characters in the first 20 minutes of the film.

It's set up for Season 3...but taken in a vacuum, bleh, yeah. It's just world building for the sake of world building - but you gotta remember that Star Wars does a lot of that too, which is where some of the inspiration came from.

Fun fact - the original script was metal as hell in that the Sweeps were supposed to draw and quarter him with energy lassoes but Hasbro took issue with it as being too violent. Part of the animation is still there as the Sweeps shoot out sustained beams rather than "shots".

It's an epic battle that needed more pathos (show some Decepticons, like Shockwave, getting crushed under falling debris and crap on Cybertron)...but at that point, I'd call it blessedly short. Do you actually WANT more movie at this point?

I won't comment on characters. Either you like or hate them.

This was top notch Japanese animation, in league with Bubblegum Crisis, Gundam Char's Counterattack, etc. TOEI truly outdid itself, which is why the AKOM animation in Five Faces of Darkness was so horrifyingly jarring. Anime is in a different place now...but I really miss mid-80's TOEI and Sunrise animation.

Buttrock? Okay Zoomer.

What happens in space, stays in space.

Again, Staaaar Waaaaarrrrsss!

It's still a Marvel superhero movie with robots.

 

I knew this was coming sooner or later.

That still doesn't stop it from being tone deaf.

Not much to say here, my OG point was a nitpick after all.

It still counts. I don't know why people keep saying Prime hesitated. He was done with his speech right before Hot Rod jumped in. He had his gun aimed at Megatron with his finger on the trigger. There's no way in hell megs would've had enough time to not only raise but aim the gun at Prime.

Ignoring the fact there's not much to even get from their characters (Blurr is fast, Hot Rod and Springer are boring, Kup is old, Arcee is a woman, etc.) Most of them just show up out of nowhere as if we already know who they are. No proper introduction is giving. Kup and Hot Rod are debatable, but the others? No, I wouldn't call that establishing.

Doesn't matter if it's set up for another season. I'm not watching season 3, I'm watching a movie. This is like when Marvel puts too much shit in one movie for other movies (Age of Ultron.) Just doesn't work.

And instead we got Wreck Gar, probably the lamest, ugliest Transformer out there with the worst voice. Lovely.

I'd rather just cut out the sharkticon and Junkion stuff out for things that actually matter.

Again I don't know what the standards were at the time, so if this is the best they could've done that's fine. However I still find it pretty ugly to look at. Probably the most yarring thing being the weird unnecesarry movement.

ok boomer

 

I'm not going to defend it much...it was definitely a product of its time and something we hadn't seen before - and therefore a novelty in its day. But the dancing dinos and such is really...embarrassing for us older adults now...

But yeah, I will debate Optimus/Hot Rod/Megatron. Optimus should have simply taken the shot instead of chatting with Megatron while he was on his knees - which led to Hot Rod interfering. But I'd also argue Optimus wouldn't have taken the killing blow had Hot Rod NOT interfered, as well. It was Megatron using Hot Rod as a hostage that pushed Optimus over the edge to finally put an end to him. Otherwise, Optimus would have just stood there pointing his gun at Megatron until he ran away, like he did for two prior seasons.

 

It's one of those movies where it really helps to watch while you're still a young, impressionable kid. The music's wonderful and there are some scenes that are really nicely done (Unicronus devouring Lithone, the death scene of Optimus Prime, Megatron being reformatted into Galvatron, the underwater part with Hot Rod), but ultimately it's not that good. It's not terrible, but even as far as simple, mindless fun goes there's just so many movies that are much better, be it live action or animated. Loved it as a six year old, and if gave me nostalgic bliss when I had seen it for the second time during my late teens, but I'd imagine I would've been pretty underwhelmed by it had I watched it for the first time as a young adult. Still, I always have a blast revisiting it every once in a while.

 

I had this weird trippy dream that I could write a better version ....

Not that that ever came to mu ... oh, hang on.  

 

Okay now we know the yardstick. Feed him to the sharkticons.

 

My personal nostalgia aside (for me, this was my G1. I was too young to have grown up with Optimus Prime et al on TV, so my childhood was renting this movie repeatedly from Roger's Video/Blockbusters), as a singular narrative, it's meandering and goofy as all hell.

However, as an 80s animated rock opera? It freakin' slays.


I have no idea what you're talking about in terms of "unnecessary movement". Is it just because you watch so much anime, that you're too used to its limited movement?

 

The movie was a milestone for me. You can easily say G1, objectively, isn't really that good at all. It's messy, got nothing stories, nothing plots and the '86 movie tries to do this thing called plot but kinda ends up being all over the place.

But I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that for me, I don't love G1 because it was good. I love G1 because it was memorable, and opened up my little kid brain to a whole franchise that I would love as a kid and then later love again as an adult. G1 was inspiration and had just enough character to allow for imagination to take hold. Seeing all of that culminate in the '86 thrill ride of a movie was enough for me! Sure I appreciate media for many, many things, but I'll still remember just how wild of a ride G1 Transformers really was, for all of it's ups and downs.

 

I've seen a grand total of 2 animes in my life. So no, it's not that. I posted an example a bit back in this thread that shows Unicron vs coneheads. That looked really bad

 

You mean the constant camera panning and zooming? I mean, the animation isn't good enough to handle dogfight tracking, but it's only for a brief moment and fairly effectively conveys the absolute chaos and panic of the sequence. It's not like the whole movie's like that.

 

Finally. Someone who gets what the movie is about (and why its popularity endures.)

Take another genre to cartoon or sci-fi: like gothic drama, for example. People love Phantom of The Opera and people love The Elephant Man. One portrays human deformity realistically with cinematic realism; the other portrays it as a melodramatic fever dream (which ironically Lynch progressed to anyway.) Are the people enjoying the former less entitled to enjoy one because of the other? No. Phantom's soundtrack wouldn't fit in Elephant Man and the kitchen sink Victorian grit of E.M. wouldn't fit the flashy overtures of Phantom.

It's about the brazen, goofball, murderous ride.

As an adult viewer, that's not simply about nostalgia or rose-tinted glasses but about coming back to it matured, or as a storyteller myself, to find a newfound appreciation of how this thing is put together: sometimes with expert skill, sometimes by the seat-of-its pants, sometimes because they clearly had a deadline and that daft sequence had to do. I see its MANY flaws (or that "metric-f*ck tonne of bad" to coin sb's quip above  ) that I didn't as a kid, and then some. But while many of the criticisms in this thread ARE valid, the esteem movies are held in with audiences over the years is very often about the sum total of their parts, not the parts which didn't work.

We all know the rubber shark in the third act of Jaws looks fake as hell, but yet, however many times we watch it, it doesn't break the illusion of the first two acts reeling us in every time, from the second Chrissy Watkins strips off to take a dip past midnight and we get chills from Williams' score. Think of Unicron's attack on Lithone like that as to why, say, Springer's characterisation being thin, Wheelie being childish, or "Dare To Be Stupid" being daft doesn't stop me being pulled in every time. Those moments just don't bother me because the feel and sum total of its parts - even after 34 years - STILL pulls together well where in Bayformers, most of the component parts (script, logic, characterisation, TF's secondary to human drama etc) except soundtrack are in crisis, not one or two letting the side down.

Fine, the Junkions are frivolous. No question (even if I do think Eric Idle's voice lent colour to the character.) The critique of the diversion to Quintessa achieving nothing but ship grab #2, I would probably reject, however. Especially when the movie goes out of its way to use it to: a) firm up Hot Rod & Kup's reluctant bond, and b) give some (albeit depressing  ) payoff/closure to Kranix's story in that mid-section rather than leave him hanging (which it easily could have.) Oh, and he had no toy. Nana. Zilch. So not sure how that fits into the same "soulless toy commercial devoid of artistry" critique I read of TFTM every time. Sure, they work for the big boys, but guys like Floro Dery are NOT devoid of artistry. His fingerprints, visual style and flair are all over this movie, and deserve a bit more respect, I always feel, when people palm this off as kitsch 80's nonsense or bash the visuals unfairly.

The film also has balls like no other children's animation in history, except with the singular exception, perhaps, of Watership Down.

It's the equivalent of Toy Story 3 having the guts to let Woody, Buzz & co burn in the incinerator.

Which again, obvs. wouldn't feel right, and only brings me back to the point of genre or other movie comparison not being a failsafe way to gauge something's worth.

Because love it or hate it, much like Unicron, TFTM owns its own messed up bizarre black hole in space.

.

 

Prime hesitated because: if he didn't give a speech and just shot Megatron he'd still be alive.

Yeah, he does have enough time If he's quick. He doesn't have to aim, he just needs to point and shoot.

 

Or he just wanted to tell Megs to go fuck himself before he offed him.

Buddy, if you have a gun directly pointed at you and you're trying to grab a gun from underneath rubble, you don't have enough time to grab it, raise it and then shoot and hope to god you hit your target.

Granted, after rewatching it, Megatron did show the gun right before Hot Rod jumped on him, but then you could still say Prime got distracted by Hot Rod running in out of nowhere.

 

Yes, Prime did get distracted, but it's not Hotrod's fault that Prime didn't kill Megatron while he had the chance. I will be the first to admit, I can't stand Hotrod and I openly insult him, but he didn't kill Optimus.

 

I honestly don't blame anyone for telling their nemesis to go fuck themselves before they kill them

 

I don't either.

 

I used to be sort of meh on the '86 movie...but I enjoy it more and more on each rewatch. It's a big, fun, colorful space adventure romp with a great soundtrack and just enough edge to give it a unique identity that would never fly in a kids' movie nowadays. Is it a technically great film? I'd say no. Is it my ideal Transformers movie? Also no...part of me is sad that we never got a more conventional movie starring Optimus and co. But I really like the '86 movie for what it is. It's bold and has a great creative vision. I actually find it sad that some people completely disregarded this movie in the '80s. Despite being a blatant toy commercial, I think it's far more than just a toy commercial...it certainly has artistry to it.

 

If you think about it, this movie was like this franchises bible.

 

The 86 movie is usually highly praised, so it's refreshing to see an alternate opinion. I don't agree with everything, but I definitely don't praise this movie as is common.

I definitely agree with you it feels like two very different stories in one movie: the attack on the Autobot City and the direct aftermath, and the rest of the movie. And they're definitely not of the same quality.

The first half is good. For watchers of the cartoon at the time it must've been shocking to see injuries and casualties, but I was more into the Marvel Comics and actually lamented the lack of these in the cartoon (the Marvel comics had regular injuries and often even more graphic than this). You can sadly definitely tell that when the movie was made several iconic characters were still unknown who would play a big part in season 2 of the cartoon (hence their absence).

After the death of the leaders it also takes a downfall for me. I dislike the scenes with the Quintessons and also disliked the Junkion scenes. I found these scenes likewise jarring and even annoying. They are there to show Hot Rod growing, but it could've been better.

What I really dislike in this part of the movies is the absence of a good leader fight. Ultra Magnus goes from thinking he's not worthy of the matrix to thinking he can open it to hold off Galvatron (because being attacked by new Decepticons on a planet made of junk is clearly their darkest hour). He just stands there. There should've been more of a fight, showing Magnus as a capable fighter (if only to make up for his absence during the battle for the city earlier).

Likewise, the Rodimus Prime vs Galvatron fight was non-existence. It was over before you knew it and it could definitely have been a more impressive fight, rivalling the Optimus vs Megatron fight. Sure, there was the bigger threat of Unicron (but that was open matrix and ready). There should've been an epic battle between the very powerful Galvatron (at least, we're told he is because he really hasn't done anything special) and the new Autobot leader.


It's supposed to be the epic G1 TF story, but even in the cartoon I think there are better multiparts (albeit it not as well drawn -- I think it was pretty good for the time).

I posted this elsewhere (several times in fact). It's a shot for shot screensave from that moment in the battle (linky.

If you look at it moment for moment then indeed, as you said, Optimus has his finger on the trigger aiming pointblank at Megatron. But, and it's a big but, there's two to three seconds during which Megatron has the gun visible in the open, Hot Rod is not in the way, and Optimus doesn't do a single thing. And Hot Rod came running in from behind Megatron, not blocking Optimus his shot in any way.

The idea that Hot Rod allowed Megatron to grab said gun and blocked Optimus his shot, simply isn't what the movie shows:
- OP in kill position
- Megatron grabs gun (OP doesn't react)
- Megatron brings up the gun (OP doesn't react)
- Hot Rod comes running from behind Megatron (OP doesn't react)
- Megatron is distracted from aiming/shooting OP by the approaching Hot Rod (the line of sight is: OP - Megs - HR)
- Hot Rod attacks Megatron
- Optimus yells "Get out of the way" (which Hot Rod had been up till now).