I mean, either way it's still a reboot. Whether you choose to accept it or not.

I remember thinking the balls on Devastator was funny when I was like 12.

 

All that bluster you put forth and that's the best you can come up with to refute what I said? Just proves you didn't ever have a firm argument in the first place, especially since you keep acting like nobody can accept Bumblebee is an aborted prequel when all evidence points to the contrary.

 

No one forced the studio or Travis to label anything. They themselves made a conscious decision to label Bumblebee as part of a new storytelling universe. There’s clearly enough differences in the film to label it as such.

This is an assumption you’ve just made. You don’t know if this is factually true.

No one here is denying that there’s Bayverse elements present in the film. Early on the film was clearly intended to be a prequel and some of that prequel stuff was still present in the film. For example, Bumblebee’s face, the camaro, Sector 7, and Simmons.

I personally have not forced Travis to label Bumblebee as anything. Quite frankly, I’ve never even spoken with Travis or harassed him online.

And there was just as much non Bay shit in that movie. If the film is clearly Bayverse then why are we even having this discussion?

Honestly, there’s enough material in that film to call it a reboot and enough material to call it a plot hole filled prequel. You can view it as whatever you want but let’s stop acting like Travis was forced to announce Bumblebee was a reboot. This is getting ridiculous.

 

Well if you believe in calling apples "oranges" then its a reboot. Making something "offical" doesnt make it logical. That just means there was a moron running the show at Hasbro.

On Devys balls, whats your point ? I was 32 when ROTF came out, and at age 43 I still find Devy"s balls to be funny as hell.

"You dont stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing".
- Emgo

 

I hope these posts of yours are intended to be satire. They are quite funny.

 

"Awful" and "bad" are opinions not facts. Most guys who hated TLK try to apply logic to defend their positions, but this kills their argument every time. There is no definitive guide to what makes a movie good or bad, its all just opinions. You cant make an opinion fact.

We could argue all day about this producer or that producer and who said what. We could argue all day whether they were speaking in their own interests, or if they were told to do so by the entity footing the bill. But no producer is going to change a prequel into a reboot more than halfway through production without marching orders. Production companies dont like wasting money. Thats how all this reboot crap came into existence. Somebody in Hasbro or the movie company thought connecting it to the Bay saga was going to loose them money, and they came to that conclusion a bit to late to really change the film. In other words, they told the chef to bake a pie when the cake was already in the oven. Travis Knight shoved the cake into a box that reads "pie" and said here's your pie.

 

Please, do tell me more about how you plan on defending stuff like Plan 9 from Outer Space, Manos: The Hands of Fate, or anything made by Adam Sandler in the past few years as being 'good' films. Because trying to play the 'you can't call anything definitively bad or good' card only forces you to actually have to admit you find worth in films that have absolutely zero good qualities to them.

You seem to be acting like this is all shit people were not fully cognizant of this entire time and was proof the TFCU was a time bomb waiting to blow with how Paramount rushed into production on a follow up to TLK before TLK even released.

No, we all knew.

You, on the other hand, seem to be incapable of understanding that its been confirmed multiple times over that Paramount had no choice in releasing Bumblebee one way or another - they lost so much money on TLK that they legitimately had to make a return on what was already spent on Bumblebee's completed pre-production or Paramount would go bankrupt. Otherwise, had pre-production not been completed, Bumblebee would have been canceled outright - and they did everything they could to distance it from TLK, going so far as to remove "Transformers" from the movie's very title.

Your entire basis for refusing to acknowledge Bumblebee as its own thing amounts to four aspects of the film, all of which are tangential at best and could be written off as mere homages:

- Agent Simmons (who is simply a name that could be changed and it isn't him anymore)
- Aesthetic (which is still significantly different from bayverse since nobody's predominantly gunmetal, you can actually identify their bodies being made up of colorful vehicle components, and the Decepticons have humanlike faces)
- The camaro at the end of the film (which given Bumblebee's been a muscle car in a couple of series by this point no longer is unique to the Bayverse)
- Bumblebee's R2D2 gimmick (which I already pointed out isn't even in line with the 2007 film since Blitzwing completely removes his ability to talk, whereas he actually can still talk normally the entire time in the 2007 film but it causes him great pain to do so)

Trust me, the logic of your argument is about as valid as saying that the G1 Combaticons are actually in Car Robots 2000 because the Ruination team are simply repaints of them and are actually more accurate to the toys than the original Combaticons despite being the exact same molds.

 

To be fair, Uncut Gems was amazing

 

I cant argue with somebody who just doesnt grasp whats in front of their eyes when they watch the actual movie. Your hate for Bay's work and willingness to accept the band aid known as a "reboot" designation blinds you. You would walk off a cliff if an "offical" memo was posted by Hasbro instructing all Bay haters to do so. In one final attempt to help you understand, Ill repost my last quote to another person on here in case you are only reading my comments via the alerts feature. (What I do mostly)

I said:

We could argue all day about this producer or that producer and who said what. We could argue all day whether they were speaking in their own interests, or if they were told to do so by the entity footing the bill. But no producer is going to change a prequel into a reboot more than halfway through production without marching orders. Production companies dont like wasting money. Thats how all this reboot crap came into existence. Somebody in Hasbro or the movie company thought connecting it to the Bay saga was going to loose them money, and they came to that conclusion a bit to late to really change the film. In other words, they told the chef to bake a pie when the cake was already in the oven. Travis Knight shoved the cake into a box that reads "pie" and said here's your pie.

I hope the pie anology helps you understand. Its simple, straight to the point and even a caveman can understand it. Dueces...

I never saw any of those films, so I cant generate an OPINION on those films. To be honest, im a Transformers fan a lot more than a movie fan. The last movie I actually saw was The Rise of Skywalker. And that was a f**king good movie in my OPINION. If you want my OPINION on the last Transformers cartoon on Netflix, I thought it was just okay. The visuals of walking, living toys complete with hollowed out legs and 5 mm weapons ports detracted my focus of the storyline. Just a personal OPINION though. Im sure some some viewers loved it.

 

TLK's one of my favourites, but I don't have the delusion that it's the whole world that's wrong about it. Wouldn't call it nitpicks when it's blatantly an awful film. And you should know that they didn't cancel it because people said it was bad. People said it was bad since RotF. They don't care if it's bad. They care if it makes money. Bumblebee made money. It's a shame because I always wanted to see how the Bayverse ends. Maybe they'll do a comic or animation someday about it. There's been a thread about making a similar direct-to-video series like DC Universe Animated Original Movies, which is a great idea for any film that's too niche for a theatrical release.

Bumblebee's still listed as part of the same series as Transformers, which will also include any future films that they add to that loose canon. Continuity isn't as important as stories that stand on their own. But people typically refer to the films that Michael Bay directed as Bayverse. BB's produced by him, but it's also produced by Lorenzo di Bonaventura; "producer" is a vague term. And why is it "sucking up to G1 fans" by making something that they like? When they made Titanic, were they "sucking up to boat fans"? The fandom's pretty big; they can "suck up" to a number of things over the next few years. Beast Wars is coming up. Why are you hating on Travis Knight? You seem unfamiliar with his work. If you knew the difference between how Knight and Bay approach films, you'd know that Knight's a deciding factor on BB's outcome. They're nothing alike. The fact that you can't tell even structural differences between the two explains a lot. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but you think that people's complaints are "nitpicks" or just "complaining about everything." Tonnes of people who love the films will agree that the mistakes are much more than nitpicks or just complaining about everything. Have you ever tried listening to these complaints and understanding how they apply to the films on a technical level?

When did I say that it's a fact that it's bad? It's my opinion that TLK's blatantly awful. What did I say to back that up? There are clear structural problems that even fans of the film keep bringing up that you seem to be glossing over. My argument isn't the structural problems themselves; it's that even fans of the film agree that they're more than just nitpicks, hence the word "blatant." I'm making a conscious choice not to discuss these structural problems with you because I'm assuming that they've been brought up to you countless times, but you seem to think that "logic kills arguments."

Here's a fact: you're in the minority who thinks it's good, and you're allowed to be.

Here's an opinion: You're not well adjusted. I literally agreed with you that Bumblebee is the same series. I'm just saying that when people refer to Bayverse, they mean the ones that he directed. Why are you writing me a paragraph about the meaningless reboot/not reboot argument that I know you've been having for months on this website?

You can't say that a film is factually bad, but if you're literally not registering what I'm saying, then your argument is factually bad.

LMFAO, after all that ranting, you're still gonna make this claim? Alright.

 

I didn't even know Adam Sandler was in that. I was thinking more stuff like Pixels honestly.

Wow.

I mean, even Galvatross couldn't justify calling Rise of Skywalker a good movie, and he liked TLK more than Bumblebee!

 

Clarification: I have never actually said that.

What I have said is that the ideal Transformers movie would be a happy halfway point between Bumblebee and The Last Knight, and that neither is my ideal TF film, albeit for different reasons.

 

People gonna like what they gonna like. Im easy to please. I dont believe theres such a thing as "unwritten guidelines" that make a movie good or bad. Thats just peoole using the bully pulpit to try and pass their opinions off as fact.

 

Berserker before he became a generic dread

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Missed our chance to get the Overload design onscreen.

 

I prefer that much more than the Dread head he ended up with, at least this makes him look more distinct.

 

Overload is missing his other set of eyes. But seeing him for the first time, even for a moment would've been rewarding.

 

Oh wow, that’s beautiful.