Would You Have Preferred Bumblebee as a Reboot or Prequel?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by SuperRock7, Aug 17, 2020.

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Would you have preferred Bumblebee as a Reboot or a Prequel

  1. Reboot

    62 vote(s)
    79.5%
  2. Prequel

    16 vote(s)
    20.5%
  1. TheDude810

    TheDude810 I have an unhealthy obsession with the RotF Game

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    The funny thing is that most of those inconsistencies almost make it fit even better into Bayverse because of the the lack of continuity between those films.
     
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  2. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

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    Thing is, most of the seemingly contradictory things in the films can still be explained, like Megatron's numerous complicated plans as well as the Creators and Allspark being simultaneously involved with the origins of the Transformers. TLK just threw all that away and gave us entirely new mythos with absolutely no way of reconciling it with previously established lore.
     
  3. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    As somebody who actually likes the first three films, Megatron's plans make increasingly less sense per film given how much is going on such that he guarantees he screws himself over no matter which scenario ends up happening.

    I originally wrote up a lengthy explanation, but realized it can simply just be explained by how his plans in ROTF and DOTM are diametrically opposed to each other.

    ROTF: turning on the Solar Harvester destroys the sun, and thus kills all the humans.

    DOTM: enslave the entire human race and drag Cybertron into Earth's orbit to take advantage of the sun being close by.

    Megatron also has been on Earth for ten thousand years, as stated by the S7 guy through carbon dating, meaning not only was Megatron frozen in ice during the entire time The Fallen was around (since the pyramids were built roughly 4 thousand years ago), but he had no idea where Sentinel Prime even was as the Ark doesn't reappear until the late 50s when it crashes into the moon and kickstarts the cold war space race. Meaning it was entirely possible that Sentinel was still awake and would not need to be woken up using the Matrix (which Megatron wouldn't have known was trapped on Earth because it wasn't even there when he crashed), and Sentinel would be very pissed off to see the entire human race destroyed because The Fallen wanted to destroy humanity entirely out of spite - and as a Prime, Sentinel absolutely could have killed Fallen. In order for DOTM to even have plausibly succeeded in the first place, ROTF could not have happened, and DOTM only even was going down because the Decepticons and Sentinel didn't want to stoop low and have to clean up their own mess on their own home planet.

    And that's not factoring in the fact there was a massive Decepticon fleet hiding on the moon that was mobilized in minutes, rendering the whole point of needing Energon for a new army pointless since there already was one close by.
     
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  4. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    Although you have to remember the context in that scene and who said it. It was Starscream who said that, and he wasn't in on the Sentinel Prime plan whatsoever in DotM. And as for the context, we are shown Decepticon hatchlings in "pods" who are dying on the Fallen's ship from lack of Energon. He's talking about a new army, not a current one.
     
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  5. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    And all it would take is Soundwave, who's been around since the 60's and was implied to have been involved with overturning the Apollo missions which themselves were for exploring the Ark, to tell Megatron as early as ROTF following his resurrection that 'oh, hey, there's an army waiting on the Moon for you that I've been keeping secret from the humans for forty years."

    Context means nothing, especially since you're now using Transformers Prime logic to explain why Megatron wants a new army instead of using the existing battlefleet of ships that was apparently there on the moon the whole time (on top of the other existing army he calls down on Egypt from deep space anyway).
     
  6. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    I'm not saying there aren't some questions DotM's events pose. What I'm saying is that Starscream is the one who mentions a new army in the context of hatchlings dying due to Energon in RotF, and consequently, Starscream talking about a new army needing Energon has no bearing on a group of Decepticons whose existence he doesn't know about.

    And Soundwave? He's a Decepticon AND a spy! Even if Megatron seems to like him, who says he reveals everything to his own boss even?

    LoL. You can't be serious.

    Context isn't everything, but it IS extremely important. When things are said or happen, where they are said or happen, and who says or does them are very important things to understanding stories.
     
  7. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    To me and to most people its potato potatoe. The bayverse is too much far gone to be rebootable with any notion of real change, ergo we need new ideas, styles and a completely new storyline (this time we need for the plot to actually exist).

    ?
     
  8. HispasatBot

    HispasatBot Banned

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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
  9. AustinLucas

    AustinLucas Banned

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    Bumblebee actually was released to critical acclaim aka positive reviews and Travis Knight did better than Michael Bay. Bumblebee is a reboot
     
  10. Arrogant Arachnid

    Arrogant Arachnid Banned

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    Reboot.
    Although prequel would be funny given that this would be the timeline:
    "Bee goes to Earth to fight Nazi's-Goes back to Cybertron to fight on Cybertron, relearns about Earth-Goes to Earth again- Optimus and other bots land on Earth- Optimus and the others leave for some reason, then come back in 2007"
     
  11. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    Because its Soundwave, literally the most loyal Decepticon in franchise until Lugnut existed? He's basically the closest thing Megatron ever has to a best friend save for maybe one time in Cybertron and that time was only because Soundwave wasn't a true Cybertronian.

    Plus, what purpose would Soundwave have for not telling his boss about the battle fleet hidden on the Moon, which Soundwave has been keeping secret all this time, when said battle fleet's sole purpose of being there was to attack the Earth?

    Not to mention who's the one who sends in Ravage to get the shard that ultimately is used to resurrect Megatron? SOUNDWAVE.

    You want context? The entire existence of the moon battle fleet is a retcon that generates a massive plot hole. Otherwise, your argument that Soundwave simply didn't tell Megatron literally anything upon helping resurrect him makes no sense, given Megatron promptly flying into space after resurrecting and having the perfect opportunity to rendezvous with his chief intelligence officer in low Earth orbit, who's been doing recon and interference operations for 40 years just to protect Megatron's Earth invasion fleet.

    All you can harp on about is Starscream whining about dying protoforms on some unexplained shipwreck on one of the moons around Jupiter while at the same time you admit that Starscream doesn't know about the moon fleet. If Starscream was subsequently told about the moon fleet by Megatron, then why would any of them bother trying to save a bunch of dying protoforms when there's a FULLY SUPPLIED BATTLE FLEET just waiting for orders on the Moon? And if they still want to fuel the protoforms with the energon from the Sun Harvester, then just use the battle fleet to ensure victory since this is litterally why there is a battle fleet on the moon in the first place and then they can use the Energon to have their cake and eat it, too.

    Soundwave not telling Megatron about the moon fleet is a plot hole that can not be explained without suggesting Soundwave intentionally refused to give his own side the resources available, which itself is nonsensical since what the hell was he doing for 40 years protecting that fleet and then ensuring his own side loses by not reminding Megatron to use those forces?
     
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  12. 96megatron

    96megatron Well-Known Member

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    Given the lore of the Transformers Franchise as a whole from 1984-2020. They could be anyone.
    Generic_Seekers_and_Conehead.png
    Bumblebeebodies.jpg
     
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  13. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    I think prequel would work better because it would give new Paramount a point to wrap up the old live action franchise and then move on to a new Transformers franchise. For us old geezers it might not seem like that long between Bumblebee and when Paramount will be able to get out another Transformers movie but in entertainment it is forever. Might be better to just wrap up the old series with Bumblebee and then move on to an all new all different live action franchise to bring in the kids this sort of movie will target.

    With the pandemic putting the entire movie industry on hold I think studios are going to have to scramble to be something different once you can start filling movie theaters with people again. In some places it has been a long time since people have gone to see a movie so it is almost impossible to know how tastes have changed during that time.
     
  14. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    LoL what?

    Soundwave was NOT the most loyal Decepticon in the brand before Lugnut. He doesn't bat an eye when Starscream hurls Megatron into space. In the Marvel comics, whatever loyalty he had would change depending on the situation.

    The idea that Soundwave was always this loyal Decepticon to Megatron is not true whatsoever.


    Did I ever say there weren't any problems created by it? No. My point was that if Starscream is the one talking about a new army and hatchlings dying from a lack of Energon, and he had no knowledge of a fleet on the moon, then him talking about a new army (the hatchlings) needing Energon was not a contradiction. Whatever the other characters know is not relevant, because they're not the ones saying it.



    Because it's the truth.

    But Starscream WASN'T told about the moon fleet. Megatron doesn't reveal anything about that whole plan until the Decepticons and Sentinel are in D.C.!

    Furthermore, saving dying protoforms doesn't contradict the existence of hidden Decepticons on the moon.

    But you see, not using certain forces is not the same as "ensuring your own side loses." Especially given The Fallen was involved, and he has extreme powers and can only be killed by a Prime.

    My point isn't that there aren't problems created by certain story lines. My point was that the statements regarding a new army of hatchlings needing Energon said by someone who isn't aware of the Sentinel/Space Bridge plans does not contradict there being a secret battalion on the moon.
     
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  15. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    You literally put more thought into defending the trash writing of the films (and I say this as somebody who enjoys the first three films) than the people who actually wrote it in the first place. Like, you badly need to watch the South Park episode the Tale of Scrotie McBoggerBalls. It's truly gotten to the point I can't tell if you keep this schtick up because you actually like the films or you've convinced yourself that they're better than they really are to the point you can't actually recognize quality anymore.
     
  16. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    "Good, good. Let the strawman flow through you."

    I'm not arguing for any deeper meaning here. I'm just using the context to indicate what's actually being said. But apparently to you, using the context in a scene to explain why something you said wasn't accurate is all of a sudden me trying to make some claims of deeper meaning.

    I both like the films and think they're better than given credit...not perfect, but better than thought of in many circles...but what I'm pointing out has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with facts.
     
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  17. Zemah

    Zemah ’Til all are one

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    To be honest, the arguing between @Galvatross and @Autobot Burnout is in many ways better than the movies themselves. I feel like someone should make a five movie franchise about it at this point :popcorn .
     
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  18. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    "Before Bayformers began, there was the film Shrek. We know not where it comes from, only that it holds the power to create swamps and fill them with life. That is how Shrek fans were born. For a time, we talked about Shrek and eventually Bayformers in harmony, but like all discussions about popular franchises, some discussed for good, others for Drek. And so began the flame war, a war that ravaged our fandom until it was consumed by the Drek, and Shrek was lost to the far reaches of space. We scattered across the internet, hoping to find it and reword our posts, searching every thread, every word. And just when all hope seemed lost, message of a new fan site drew us to an unknown website called TFW2005. But we were already too late..."

    "Our text walls united by a history long forgotten and a future we shall face together. I am Galvatross Prime, and I send this message so that our posts will always be remembered. For in those discussions, we live on."

    "We were once a peaceful race of intelligent, Shrek-anical Transfans. But then came the flame war between the Ogrebots who dreamt of freedom and the Deshrektifans who dreamt of true fandom. Ogre-trolled and outflamed, our perma-banning was all but certain. But in the war's final days, one Ogrebot post escaped the trolls. It was carrying a secret topic, which would have changed our forum's fate. A desperate mission. Our final post. A post deleted."

    "There are mysteries to the Onionverse fans were never meant to solve. But who Shrek is and why he loves are not among them. Those answers he carries inside (because he has many layers!). I am Galvatross Prime, and this message is to the Lord of Duloc: leave TFW2005 alone, 'cause I'm coming for you!"

    "These are troubled times. Galvatross Prime has left us to find the Lord of Duloc. Some say he will never return. His sworn enemy, Ogrebot Burnout, vanished. Without swamplords, chaos reigns. Two fandoms at war. One of Shrek, one robots. Shrekformers fans are declared perma-banned on TFW2005. The site has set up a new supermoderator force: The SRF. Except in General Discussion, Jaegertron lets them discuss his manliness. But these fans of green robots keep on posting, endless waves of them, too many to count. We look to the threads with dread and we wonder...how much of our time remains. 100 billion, trillion posts in the Movie forums, and they talk about Drek. Why?"
     
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  19. Cosbydaf

    Cosbydaf Well-Known Member

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    I definitely think they should repair his voice (For the love of God just let him talk like a normal character) and change to a different vehicle (Staying as a Camaro is going to make people think it's more Bayverse).

    One of the most unfortunate things about Bumblebee 2018, is it doesn't really matter whether the next film is a hard reboot or a sequel. BB2018 is going to feel like the movie equivalent of a filler episode, because it basically is.

    The loss of the voice = Happens because the movie started as a TF2007 prequel, will likely be undone for obvious reasons

    Turning into Camaro = see above

    Bumblebee = Despite being his own movie, we don't learn learn that much about him that could be expanded on in a sequel. He loses his memories and spends most of the runtime in a baby-ish state. The most we get to see of Bumblebee proper is during the Cybertron opening and his arrival on Earth. In other words, the next film still has task of "getting to know Bumblebee".

    Charlie = the movie spends a ton of time on her, but from what I've heard, they don't have plans on her returning for more Transformers films. Despite being totally understandable given the circumstances and budget, I can't help but feel like it was a waste of time. Either way, the next movie following this will have to introduce ANOTHER human protagonist...unless they go with John Cena's character?

    Dropkick, Shatter, Blitzwing = Dead. None were even referred to by name in the film, likely will not receive anything more than a passing mention in a sequel. There is a possibility that a more G1-esque Blitzwing could take the name back in a future installment.

    Any sort of details relating to the war on Cybertron, the Autobot/Decepticon conflict = Never elaborated on. A sequel will have to explain to the audience.


    In short, A direct sequel is still going to have to perform most of the same story tasks that a hard reboot would. I suspect that Paramount will go with a direct sequel in the hopes of recapturing the positive feedback that BB2018 had.
     
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  20. Magnum Dongus

    Magnum Dongus @DiddlyDipstick on Twitter

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    Please just no more mute muscle car Bumblebee, and no more nameslaps (including hopefully giving Blitzwing the proper recognizable appearance that everyone else got), and I’ll be fine whether the movies from now on are a hard reboot or based off of Bumblebee.
     
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