I feel like ever since Prime ended, they've been playing it safe, i mean i enjoy Cyberverse, but i miss the orginal actors like Cullen, and Frank Weilker, and something new aside from using G1 designs.

 

When it comes time to release new toys then new show/storylines will accompany it IMO. It wont be the same forever

 

basically every show after g1 did at least some things different

Beast wars and machines: you already know why

rid01: the autobots are fighting the predacons

armada: the transformers are fighting for the mini cons

I barely remember anything from energon or cybertron

animated: you already know

prime: made unicron the earth and officially brought the wreckers into tv

rid15: “focused” on a corrupt Cybertronian government

cyberverse: introduced the multiverse in tv

siege: is the first show to actually focus on the war for cybertron

 

I'm very confused by this post... you complain that they aren't doing anything new but at the same time you're also complaining that you don't want anything new.

Every single Transformers series EVER has been something new mixed with elements of what we've seen before.

If they didn't have elements of what we've seen before then it wouldn't be Transformers anymore.

If it didn't have something new then it would literally just be reruns of the G1 cartoon.

Cyberverse is reusing some G1 designs but that doesn't mean there's nothing new. They've never had AllSpark armor before, Cheetor was never a member of the Autobots before, Hammerbyte, Meteorfire, Thunderhowl are entirely new characters that never even existed before. ect. ect.


I just don't understand what the heck you're talking about when you're contradicting yourself like that. This really doesn't seem to have anything to do with new vs. old at all because every series has little bits of both. You need to be more specific what you're asking for or it just comes off as inherently contradicting. You want new things but then complain about having new voice actors? How does that make sense? You're just using far too broad terms.

You complain that Optimus has been sticking to a G1 design lately but what about Bumblebee? He's not a VW beetle in Cyberverse, that is a new design... which kinda looks similar to IDW except for the chest...

They're not playing it safe, they're playing it SMART, doing what they know works and changing what didn't work. That's what they should always be doing. Though I'm surprised it's taken them this long to finally figure that out.

 

I feel like enough people in the fandom can't grasp this simple fact. They appear to believe as long as it has robots that turn into things then it's Transformers, or as long as Hasbro calls it Transformers than it's Transformers, which is absurd.

When someone says something like this, a switch is flipped and everything becomes black and white. "Oh, so you just want the Sunbow cartoon with nothing different?"

I'd like to see new stuff too, as long as it's also well made. I fear too many people would give it praise just for being different, which is really weak. It's like getting an award just for showing up.

They're probably playing it safe because of what happened to the Aligned continuity, while on the one hand I can understand it on the other Hasbro is partly to blame for Aligned's failure as well. The fact that they apparently had no control over Prime is a problem and should've been an immediate red flag.

 

I would like to simply point out that this is the first show that takes place during peacetime - Decepticons as a cooperated faction are nonexistant, unlike Animated, and most adversaries are regular criminals like Steeljaw and Thunderhoof (some of them could even be branded Decepticon by the mentioned corrupt government for one reason or another) and even larger threats like Megatronus, Starscream and Soundwave don't have an army of any sort behind them.

Yeah, it is just as unique as any other show.

 

I do understand where your coming from - but I respectfully disagree.
Theres a reason Hasbro ALWAYS goes back to G1 - its not just the heart of the brand, the highest selling or the most marketable - it is the brand.
Let me give you an example - one of my best mates is a huge Anime/Sci Fi guy. He knows how into Transformers I am, and has wanted to give it a go, but didnt have anywhere to start. G1 is fun but dated and for a young audience, the Unicron Trilogy is all over the shop, Animated and Prime are their own unique takes on the franchise. I tried showing him prime, but he kept asking why nobody looked like they did in "anything else" (he's played the cybertron games and seen Bumblebee).
He recently watched the Siege show, and loved it. Its back to basics, taking the G1 characters and basic scenario and aging it up for a serious audience, and using all the basic tenants and characters of the brand (Autobots, Deceptions, G1 designs, Cybertron, Allspark).
So from a brand perspective, Hasbro has made G1 the centre of Transformers, and they're done it for a reason. Its not like they haven't tried totally new takes before (RID'15). And I'd love to see new stuff again - but it needs a rebooted, solid foundation, using the core of the brand, to build off and spin out from

 

Yeah could care less about design. Cyberverse did do something new with the story. But nobody cared. So why wouldn't they just stick to the same story?

 

I know. I remember when Bumblebee came out, and I was posting somewhere about how little I like the Bayverse designs, because they take virtually none of the defining design ques of the characters their based off.

"Oh, a GeeWunner, you just want literally the cartoon on screen, thats dumb'

No - I just want character's to look like the ones their supposed to be. The reason Hasbro doesnt go the Unicron Trilogy route anymore (ie few returning characters with scores of new ones) is simply because the 'Reuse and Recycle with new elements' method works better for Transformers as a brand.

For me personally, I couldn't get invested in Cyberverse because it was geared so young.

Odviously a brand like Transformers needs that, and I'm all for it. I just think the shows odvious age target, combined with simplistic animation (its great for what it is, but it looks cheap) turned a lot of the fandom off.

 

Personally, I felt like RID2015 felt new and fresh. There were aspects of the show that felt a bit more G1 that Prime (like making Starscream and Soundwave's designs more G1), but as a whole it still felt like it was trying to push new ground and do new things with the designs and characterizations.

I'm hoping whatever comes next is more risky and less G1-oriented. These things tend to go in cycles. Right now we're at a point where people who grew up with the '80s cartoon are feeling very nostalgic for it (because nostalgia for stuff tends to hit really strong after about thirty years), so it makes total sense that the brand would feel very '80s oriented right now. And it also makes sense that Beast Wars seems to be the next big thing, because we're coming up on the 30th anniversary of that soon. Eventually this nostalgic era will reach a breaking point, and we'll start getting more new takes on the brand again. I do hope it happens soon though.

 

The thing is, those different and/or new things are often very minor or superficial.

Like saying Siege is "new and different" because it focuses (kind of) on the actual War for Cybertron when no cartoon has before is laughable. Not only are cartoons not the end all be all of storytelling and the story itself has been told plenty of times before in novels, games, and exposition, but that's hardly a groundbreaking concept by itself. Most TF cartoons have showed the war return to Cybertron, so seeing it start there is hardly groundbreaking when the setting of factions fighting on a wartorn Cybertron is visible in nearly every series.

And even if it was the first show ever to show the war on Cybertron... is that really all that new and different? Ultimately it's the same characters with the same designs and the same basic plot, only without any of the interesting bits that come with hiding on Earth. Sure technically it's not been done exactly this way before, but does that really feel new and interesting? Especially when it's just retreading the same story beats we'd been retreading for literal years now?

How many times is Hasbro going to "restart" the lore with the same beginning? How many times does Batman's parents need to get shot before we can move on to the crime fighting?

Where does he complain that he doesn't want anything new? He says he misses Cullen and Welker, but everything else is a complaint that they're playing it safe and adhering too much to G1. Unless you seriously read "I miss Cullen and Welker" and equated it to "I just want G1 over and over."

I think the proof of Transformers' stagnation is in the mere fact that people mention it more often than ever these days. If it wasn't a problem, people wouldn't be bringing it up, and we wouldn't have the amount of threads on this topic that we do. The fact that fans are more vocal about the lack of new and fresh concept/series speaks volumes given that has almost never been a criticism shared on such a scale before recently, at least not in the over 20 years I've been a part of the online fandom.

 

I understand where your coming from, but being real, people complain about a LOT of stuff that aint true
The reason we see Batmans parents die again and again is that people keep coming back for it. The proof is in the pudding. I'm not saying I dont find the constant repeat in this brand annoying, because I do. But its for a very good reason - the brand performs better with its traditional, recognisable elements.
Transformers without Optimus Prime, Megatron, Starscream, Sounwave or Bumblebee is like Batman without Bruce Wayne, or the Avengers without Cap, Iron Man and the Hulk.
It does happen - but it almost always becomes more niche, doesnt last, and goes back to the tried and true.

 

That’s not really “the multiverse.” That’s just a few slightly different colored versions of Cyberverse universes.

 

What i mean is, while i don't have a problem with G1 Esque designs, i just miss when hasbro does something new with the franchise like Transformers Animated is a good example of that. Siege just left a bad taste in my mouth

 

I think the fandom at large is just annoyed. When the past 5 or so years have been g1 but different, ya would be a little bit annoyed aswell.

 

Fans like to say this because it reinforces their bias to dismiss criticism, but a lot of complaints are valid, especially on the scale this one is reaching.

I think you're misunderstanding my analogy.

My point is that the war for Cybertron is not a story. It is the beginning of a story, and Hasbro keeps retelling the beginning and not continuing it. We've had the WFC told three times now, each more or less the same way, and the previous two were never followed up on and this most recent show is at best going to give us two mediocre sequels that will also likely be dropped and replaced with a new canon.

The reason the war for Cybertron is never told as it's own tale is because everything about it can be explained in just a few words and no show has suffered for it, because ultimately it's just a generic sci-fi war that doesn't get interesting until they leave the planet and start disguising themselves among another race.

Who says it doesn't?

Who said Transformers shouldn't have those characters?

You're default to extremes to try and prove a point. The issue is not that the brand reuses characters, it's that the brand no longer does anything new or interesting with them. TFA had all those characters, but were they anything like they are in G1 or WFC? No, they were entirely new from the ground up, paying homage but establishing themselves as unique entities.

That's where WFC and modern TF shows are failing: no version feels truly distinct. It's all "G1 but." They take established characters and tweak them so they feel like lame offshoots rather than unique characters. The Prime Wars characters aren't remembered as anything but shallow, forgettable imitations, and I have a pretty strong feeling the WFC trilogy won't fare much better. Meanwhile TFA, Prime, even the movies stand out as distinct, different versions of classic characters, sometimes being little more than name reuses that establish themselves beyond the original namesake.

Which is the opposite of Transformers, which has built itself on niche, changing, and unique takes on the brand. Hell, the movies are about as divorced from the core concepts of the brand as possible and they're still part of public opinion.

It's easy to dismiss criticism and complaints by saying "well fans always complain" as if that somehow invalidates it. Or maybe fans complain because they know exactly what they want, and it's not this samey, repetitive lore Hasbro keeps trying to peddle. How many "brand unification" attempts must fail before we realize this, because we're on number three now and even this doesn't feel like it'll stick because it's so damn weak and devoid of opportunity.

 

I disagree. People who are familiar with the franchise aren't going into movie theaters thinking "I can't WAIT to see Batman's parents die." When scenes like that happen it is to introduce new audiences to the character, and his backstory has always defined what kind of protagonist he is. But that only really applies to a title character like Batman. In terms of marketability you do need an Optimus Prime and Bumblebee these days just because they are the faces of the brand, and you need at least someone recognizeable for it to sell. But that's only a single facet of what ultimately entails for the end product, particularly for a universe as vast as Transformers. Optimus Prime's origin truly can be anything, because he has had multiple origins since the beginning. Batman's only had one. Besides, we've had Transformers without Starscream, Soundwave or Bumblebee. Right now Rescue Bots Academy has only half those guys in supporting roles, and the show before then didn't even have Megatron in it. There have been attempts to do new things recently, but shows like Cyberverse and Siege have really fallen back on what has already been done in the franchise to some extent, rather than introducing concepts that are as substantial in their creativity as some of our previous shows were.

 

Even then, Cyberverse covered the full timeline of war, from the very beginning to a peacetime. Also it shook the formula by showing two factions mostly facing third-party threats like Starscream and his seekers in Season 2 and Quintessons in Season 3, as well as introducing diplomacy, so that the end of the war doesn't require the full extermination of the oppossing faction.

 

I hear you man, really. Its just that my opinion is that G1 is what Transformers IS - not the starting point to be built from.
When I look at new transformers content (like this new Siege show) I look for recognisable elements and characters because for me and many others, that's what makes Transformers Transformers.
I mean, is Rescue Bots really a meaningful addition to Transformers Canon? I always saw it as just an entry level show for 4 year olds. (Thats a genuine question, and not me mocking anyone who likes Rescue Bots btw)

I hear you though. I definitely want more of a balance between the new and old.

Woooah, dude! I wasnt trying to dismiss anyones complaints! I was simply pointing out that I personally feel fans complain about a lot of silly stuff.
That wasnt meant to invalidate or undermine your, or anyone elses, opinion. Clearly the view that Transformers needs to stop recycling G1 is a view shared by MANY in the fan community.
I was just sharing my personal opinion that the characters and concepts of G1 ARE the brand. I like Animated and Prime for what they are, but I feel like both stray too far from the core Transformers concepts for my personal tastes (and to be fair, a lot of other peoples). That doesnt mean I dont want new.
Take Beast Wars. Thats a show that is radically different. However, the fact it ties itself to the Generation 1 canon makes me interested. That, combined with the strong writing, makes it a great example of an evolution built off G1.
Listen, at the end of the day, were all fans and all our opinions are valid. If anything I said above seemed like it was trying to disregard your opinion, then I can honestly say that wasnt and isnt my intention. I just wanna have a discussion with some fans about the brand we all love, thats all  

 

You just answered your own question there. He started out by complaining about Hasbro relying too much on G1 but then immediately complains that they aren't using the G1 voice actors as much anymore.

No, but as I said in my last post... EVERY series ever has been a mix of old and new things. This a person who started a thread complaining that Hasbro is relying too much on G1 and "isn't doing anything new" but at the same time complaining about "anything new" that Hasbro IS DOING... in other words, not having the G1 voice actors in every freaking series.

This just reads as contradicting and nonsensical. The OP is using too broad of terms and not really explaining exactly what it is he's looking for. You can't just complain about an over use of G1 because literally EVERYTHING is inspired by it, it wouldn't be Transformers anymore if it wasn't. And even the OP complaining about the G1 reliance is clearly OK with some things from G1 or he wouldn't of brought up Peter Cullen and Frank Welker the way he did. I'm just asking for him to speak more clearly specifically than using such broad terms as anything old = bad and anything new = good because then anything he says GOOD about G1 is going to read as a contradiction.

You're kind of missing the point though. Yeah I've noticed the same complaint from other people, not just the OP in recent years but I've also noticed the same issue every time it's brought up.

Literally every Transformers series EVER has been inspired by G1 to some extent in one way or another. Just saying "Hasbro has been relying too much on G1" doesn't mean anything because that has ALWAYS been the case and ALWAYS will be the case. If they didn't rely on G1 it wouldn't be Transformers anymore.

Literally every Transformers series EVER has also introduced something new into the franchise. Just saying "Hasbro doesn't do anything new anymore" is inherently just WRONG, just because there are G1 things around doesn't mean EVERYTHING is just G1... If it was they would literally just be releasing the Sunbow cartoon over and over again.

Speaking in such broad terms as these really doesn't mean anything, it doesn't relay to anyone what the hell you're talking about and since people have a tendency to complain about the reliance on G1 while at the same time complaining about what they miss from G1... and complain about the lack of anything new while at the same time complaining about the new things we have gotten, it just comes off as contradicting. What exactly is it these people? Why can't they speak more clearly instead of painting everything in such broad strokes that nothing they say makes any gawd damn sense? Do they even know what they want?

I could understand what they're talking about better if they'd actually bother to describe it but this old vs new debate because every series has elements of BOTH is never going to make any sense. What old things specifically are you talking about that Hasbro is relying to much on? What new things specifically do you want to see in the future? Without any specific details I have no clue what the hell anyone is talking about.