That was quite a few years ago though.
The MSRP for Ironhide was ¥10,000. Regardless of whether or not they should be, I can't really see these guys being less than ¥15,000 each if they're car bot size or taller.

 

Agreed!

 

I'd be perfectly content if its the size of CW/UW Devastator. Which is really where I expect it will be anyway.

 

How much it was the recent Soundwave reprint? Just to have an idea about inflaction. Anyway, i'm guessing with the 30% discount already applied, lol

 

MP Arcee is $150. MP LioConvoy is $185. Neither has to turn in to a limb. If these guys are as big as people want and to the same design standard as other MPs...they're going to be like $200 minimum.

 

I'm talking about ironhide level of engineering, not post Sunstreaker one

 

Except part of the reason Ironhide has his level of engineering is because he doesn't turn into a limb. Blackarachnia, Lioconvoy, Arcee, even MP44 cost waaaay more all because of the more complicated engineering that goes in to the transformation.

Like, the leg bots alone are likely going to be spendy because they not only have to be MPs...but they have to be durable enough to hold the weight of an entire combiner made up of other MPs. Like, the hip joints on the poor soul that makes up the waist need to be made of better stuff than MP Dinobot's shoulders and he cost over $200.

 

I'm guessing between $130 and $175 after discount, but I dont think these will be sold seperately, unless they do some other commercial crossover stuff with them. Like @Onilink said engineering wise more Inferno less Sunstreaker/Arcee. Blocky alt modes, blocky bots these may end up being pretty easy design and production wise. A 130000 yen msrp still works out to about $850 right now, with what Fanstoys will probably end up charging for their 5 bot combiners isn't to bad. I guess the other questions is if the trains will be licensed which would be a cool touch, I'm thinking yes if they are trying to appeal to the model train people.

 

I think they will. We saw it with the Seacons over in the Selects line. It's a risky project, so they can do all 6 but sell them separately to help spread the cost out both to them on the manufacturing side, but also to the customer.

Other advantages:
1. Selling them individually means there's hype building similar to SS Devy. Hype helps sell things. If they can get the first figure done, and get it right, that could draw more attention to the product. And if the hype grows they can always reissue older components for people who hopped on the train late.

2. Selling them individually also means people who are on the fence can invest in that one figure and go from there. It's easier to buy one, not like it, and maybe sell it off to someone else who's interested (and got in late) than it would be to get enough people to buy in at $800 before they've held a single figure in hand. Again, we saw that happen with SS Devy. People joined late and bought missing components from people who lost interest as the finished product came together.

3. Hasbro/Takara's been taking lessons from 3P companies, and one of the things they do is slow-roll their combiners. Hasbro following suit would potentially get people invested in their official MP Raiden and cut the legs out from 3Ps also doing one. Get you locked in early, so you don't pay attention to 3P options. Heck, how many people right now are only slightly keeping an eye on the 3P Raiden market as they await info on the Hasbro one?

4. As time goes on, they can use sales of previous components to help gauge the production need for later ones. If there's a big buy for the first one they can scale future production for the next ones in response. And if the buys are low they know to adjust the production of later ones.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they go the same route as with Piranacon and SS Devastator. Hell, watch them even announce a box set after they're all released.

Now, just to touch on your third point rq, T, I honestly almost forgot BOTH Raidens were being done, haha. My guess is that Takara's is most definitely making more waves, besides this being the first official MP-scaled combiner from them, but also that it's a debatedly fringe character not everyone remembers, I say that with all due respect of course. Definitely makes more waves for an official company to touch on a fringe character, if you ask me.

A personal prime example, my dream Figma is of one of my favorite characters of all time, Noriko Takaya from Gunbuster. In which there was only ONE company who made a fully fledged action figure of her, and they went bankrupt ages ago.

Of course I have it in my collection, haha.

Just someone making a custom figure of her (which is actually happening, btw) alone makes a ton of waves with me, but once Good Smile somehow gets the rights to make their own (since the franchise's rights are in a shithole atm with no thanks to Gainax being a shell of it's former self). Needless to say I would still be giddy if today marked a week after the initial announcement.

Not to mention that this time around, Takara was able to give ZETA the middle finger, when it was the complete opposite last time with Unicron.

Either way, i'm definitely keeping my eyes on both Zeta's and Takara's Raiden offerings, but most likely, my eyes are gonna lock more often on the latter. Since to me, when an official product is made of a character, regardless of quality, to me it means more, as it could lead to something correlative to come later on.

 

I think they're two different markets, hasbro's market complains about $20 deluxes and you look at other japanese lines and the buy-in prices start at $100. They aren't marketing this to just people who like Transformers, unlike something Hasbro would do, this is going to equally marketed to people who may not even really care about Transformers,like the train people, or people inclined to pick it up because its a cool robots, people like that most likely have no desire to hunt for releases or play the long draw out game. The Seacons were the first time where the combiner was not a giftset, and was one of the reasons I had no interest in picking it up, as I'm not heavily invested in them. It's one thing when your're heavily invested, but I dont see them trying to stretch this out when they are trying to appeal people who are a lot more casual toward the line.

 

Does anyone kinda just not care about price? If I wanted them to hit a certain price point, I would still buy the mainline stuff. Masterpiece (imo) means it should do whatever it needs to in order to accurately portray the character as best as possible, without making compromises.

I understand that is financially stupid when it comes to making a product, but if it were up to me I would rather pay out the ass once rather than perpetually buy the same character for eternity because each iteration had flaws here and there. Maybe that's why I stopped buying TFs and moved on to art toys...

 

Okay...but they also have done three MP Primes, two Bees, and two Megatrons. I think they've done Starscream twice, too. So imagine having bought MP1, then MP10, and then they reveal MP44.

 

Lots of people not being heavily invested in these guys is a major problem in my opinion. I'm still not sure why they went with Raiden first. I'm terrified that this project will flop and spell doom for the other combiner teams. I will most likely buy it because I'm a certified MP nut and I collect them all. I also want to support the project to encourage Takara to make Devastator before I'm 50. But I'm sure most people are not like me and will not spend a huge amount of money on a lessor known combiner. Even though I'm a huge Takara fanboy I just want Raiden done with soon so we can move on to Devastator.

 

Lesser known where? Because audiences in Japan are probably far more familiar with these characters than any of us. Not to mention trains remain HUGELY popular in Japan.

Also, of all the combiners out there....Raiden is one of the few that no 3P has actually done yet. One is in the middle of it, but they're the only ones. So Hasbro/Takara are hoping to break in with an official one and catch that audience first.

Heck, I can see any MP combiner being compared to a 3P equivalent. Because we already see it now with other MPs compared to 3P.

 

Yes, I realize that. I meant outside of Japan. You are correct and Takara makes figures for the Japanese market, but I'm sure the sales from outside Japan are significant as well. I'm not even sure if the Japanese continuation of G1 (Headmasters etc.) aired anywhere outside of Japan. I'm a pretty big fan and I still haven't seen any of the Japanese G1 shows. I'm hoping to fix that soon and then maybe I'll be more excited for Raiden.

 

Well I actually prefer 10 to 44 and 21 to 45 for aesthetics. I get what you're saying and there's a lot of truth to the fact that manufacturing improvements in the future will allow for much better figures than we could ever produce today. But those improvements would not be as drastic as the comparisons you made, due to the fact that those were produced with many, many compromises. And in the product world, all compromises are due to price in the end.

 

I mean, yeah...the same compromises that may affect Raiden and have already impacted some of the BW MPs (as well as Arcee). And who knows, in 4-5 years when engineering has improved we may very well see Arcee v2. But we could also just as easily see yet another MP Ironhide, or MP Magnus, or god only knows.

It's why I always have to laugh when I hear the phrase "Oh this is the definitive version of this character." It's like, what a foolish way to set yourself up for failure down the road when they release the same character with some adjustments. Look at Seige -> Earthrise. How many people bought those Siege figure because the bot modes were "definitive" and now they're all double-dipping because Earthrise came along. And now people are saying "Oh man these are like mini MPS!" and the cycle continues.

You asked if price mattered to people, and it absolutely does. I had told myself for years the one MP I'd likely buy was MP Dinobot because of how much I liked the character. Then it was announced and I didn't have $250 to spend on the guy. You can say "cost isn't an issue and shouldn't be factored in to MP!" but if Hasbro felt that way the line would go under because customers are only going to be able to bear so much before the money dries up. (Or, as you see with the MP Arcee discussion, the people get waaaay more demanding/picky about the MPs because the cost is becoming a factor).

I mean, sure...but not to the same degree as Japan. That's why we've seen Hasbro stop importing the MP figures and only recently start offering direct purchase via Pulse. There was a market for them outside Japan, but only through the more limited collector space. Takara is, first and foremost, a Japanese company. Hasbro pairs with them to sell stuff outside Japan...but they do their own thing.

Also, it's hard not to already see how they're working towards attracting broader audiences in the MP line. After all, there have been a number of BW figures, which was hugely popular in the US. So if they can give that market some love, why not let them also hit the Japanese audiences with Raiden?

 

I think they have this pretty well planned out, they have had options for Devastator and Superion on their surveys in the past. I think all the other factors( most likely ease of design, train fans, well received G1 toy and the diaclone anniversary) made him a lot more appealing to start off with. All that and he basically sets the stage for the more globally popular Devastator. How they go about afterwards is a pretty good question,but according to the options on the last survey looks like they've gotten enough feedback to seriously debate doing some new stuff.

 

This. Exactly why I think Raiden was a great pick for the first, really works for the market MPs are primarily targeted towards, and builds the foundation for the other more notable combiners to follow suit.