What will make the Bumblebee film Universe the best live-action Transformers franchise?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by AustinLucas, Jun 7, 2020.

  1. Rodimal Rodimus

    Rodimal Rodimus Agent of Unit:E

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    I mean if it's supposed to be a shared universe, it might as well as share it with something.
     
  2. RobotKnight95

    RobotKnight95 Unamused and Insane

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    Actually focusing on the Transformers and developing the majority of characters so they appear as full-fledged characters instead of props. Giving them a culture that was lost in the war. I could go on.
     
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  3. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    But now you're just suggesting throwing in pointless 'cameos' and 'references' for the most part simply for the sake of chasing this shared universe idea when there is no point.

    These kinds of things should be the absolute least priority when it comes to trying to tell a narrative. Nobody's going to care about easter eggs shoved in their faces if the story itself is absolutely dogshit. If the narrative can not stand on its own, trying to make a shared universe is just going to fall flat. This is exactly the problem that The Mummy had and you're trying to suggest Transformers do the same for literally no purpose.
     
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  4. Rodimal Rodimus

    Rodimal Rodimus Agent of Unit:E

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    Well whatever makes it work.

    Man, talk about pessimism, whataboutism, and resorting to swearing.

    Agreed on that.
     
  5. Galvatron1998

    Galvatron1998 Maximal

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    Transformers has a large enough universe to where it shouldn't have to rely on crossovers with other properties, as fun as some of them could be. I agree with the notion that the films should focus on developing who the Transformers are and give the audience a reason to care about them. I'd like for the average person to know who characters other than Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, and Megatron are.
     
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  6. cybeast

    cybeast Freelancer Pun Maker

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    So basically you're forcing down the idea of "Shared universe" even when it's not even related at all...

    And yet you're the one who's saying that we don't have common sense, and apparently it's in the same vein of Iron Man in Captain America, which is actually wrong since Cap's shield was given by Tony's dad, and his best friend killed Tony's parents...

    And even ignoring all that, to quote it from Wikipedia:

    "After The Mummy was released in 2017 to critical and financial failure, development was halted on all projects. In early 2019, the studio changed their plans from a serialized universe to films based on individualized story-telling and the project reentered development."

    If any, that's exactly what make The Dark Universe failed hard. People went to "The Mummy" to see... well, mummies. Not Jekyll and Hyde.

    That's not swearing, he's saying "the movie is dogshit" as in, the movie is so bad.

    It's not pessimism either, when it's been proven that The Mummy failed hard.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
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  7. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    Its not whataboutism when we're talking about the fundamentals of narrative.

    What happened with The Mummy is that it was so caught up with trying to establish its 'shared universe' that the actual plot regarding The Mummy was treated as a secondary plot at best and the film was rightfully raked over the coals for it.

    You are going on and on about the exact same thing where you just want to shove things into the film simply so it can be called a 'shared universe' even when it contributes absolutely nothing to the narrative. Having something for the sake of just having it is bloat and if the movie spends more time concerned with making offhand references to things that don't really matter to the film, while the actual plot isn't developed and executed well, then critics will point this out and the film will not do well.

    This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say this fixation on the 'universe' term is a bad thing and people need to stop acting like a glorified crossover is the only way forward.
     
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  8. Rodimal Rodimus

    Rodimal Rodimus Agent of Unit:E

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    A large enough universe, maybe. But even then, causal movie-goers aren't exactly going to go in all-familiar with even the most obscurest of characters for instance.
    And again, did I say I was demanding a full-on crossover movie?
    I like how you people forget about my example of Tarantino's film universe, even when I bring it up.

    So what else would 'new storytelling universe' mean anyway? If it even means anything at all.

    Thing is though, that at least served the plot. So it can't exactly be called pointless.

    It can mean anything.

    Maybe so, except there's one difference here:
    Mainly, Bumblebee actually worked and didn't fail and suck in the process.

    :deadhorse: 
    Well son, that's why balance and compromise exist.


    :horse: 
    Again, why is everytime I try to bring up that a shared film universe doesn't necessarily need a big crossover, you deliberately forget it and instead think that I'm demanding a big JL/avenger-style mashup immediately?

    Yes, time and patience are a necessity.

    For someone who critiques bloating, you sure like to bloat part of what I say to the point of out-of-context, while ignoring other points of mine.

    Listen, if it sounds I'm being rude or trolling, I apologise. It's not my intent to start a fight just for the sake of it, just trying to express an idea and how it might work. Emphasis on the might.
    So yeah, I guess you can call me an optimist or idealist.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  9. Galvatron1998

    Galvatron1998 Maximal

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    I wasn't responding to you specifically, just stating my thoughts on the idea of a "film universe" and crossovers in general. And in regards to casual movie-goers not being familiar with obscure characters, it is the job of the film to make characters memorable. So in theory, a character such as Rack N Ruin could become mainstream to audiences if given enough attention and done properly in the films.
     
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  10. cybeast

    cybeast Freelancer Pun Maker

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    It usually means the Director is trying to impress the audience.
     
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  11. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    Case in point: Aquaman.

    He usually was treated as the most pathetic of the Justice League because he can breathe underwater and speak with fish in the Hanna Barberra cartoon.

    He's easily the most popular character from the live action Justice League and has the rare accolade of a non-Batman DC film that people generally agree didn't suck.
     
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  12. Rodimal Rodimus

    Rodimal Rodimus Agent of Unit:E

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    Fair enough point.

    So what, is Travis Knight suddenly a bad director now?
     
  13. Zemah

    Zemah ’Til all are one

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    Yeah, just like how you started talking about other franchises in a thread about designs in the Bayverse:

    And then you complained about the thread going off topic and acted as if I brought those franchises up:
    Like you said, weird :lolol :lolol :lolol .


    As for "What will make the bumblebee film universe the best live-action transformers franchise?" - hopefully more focus on the Transformers, developing them and letting the audience know them fully as characters. Less focus on the humans. Less shaky camera-work with needless explosions and more comprehensible action. An actual good plot and story that makes sense, with no stupid macguffin in every movie. Stuff like that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
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  14. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    To answer the thread question, it's complicated.

    Right now, the Bumblebee "universe" is extremely simple and depicted in a heavily nostalgic light. To be the best live action universe, it would have to "grow up" and grow out of its comfort zone by quite a bit. A lot, actually.

    That's actually one of the best things about the Bayverse. Many people may have disliked the changes that happened as the series went on and may have been unhappy about the series continuing without their robots or humans at times, but the original cartoon and comics also didn't stop just because certain characters were dead or old stories completed. That's one of the things that makes the Bayverse the most like G1 out of any continuity. If Bumblebee's fictional universe wants to be the best, it's going to need to develop in a similar manner. Not do the exact same things or follow the same general timeline, but carve its own path and move beyond "a girl and her car" and endless 80s references.
     
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  15. RobotKnight95

    RobotKnight95 Unamused and Insane

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    That's not exactly an achievement. Bumblebee is a decent film, better than any of its predecessors, but it's not that great a Transformers film. The focus is about Bee and Charlie's relationship, not the war between the Autobots and Decepticons. That just serves as a background setup. Bee is treated more like an animal/pet that cant communicate than a sentient character for the majority of the film. It's a step up from mindless monsters in the Bayformers but it's not a massive leap forward.

    It's like what I said earlier. Make a movie where the Transformers are treated like proper characters then we'll be on the right path
     
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  16. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    Or, in simpler terms, we need a Transformers film that's actually Transformers and not, well, The Iron Giant staring a (relatively) small yellow robot that turns into a car.
     
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  17. Rodimal Rodimus

    Rodimal Rodimus Agent of Unit:E

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    Maybe so.
    Honestly, I wouldn't mind some of the changes/additions in the Bay films if they were tightly and concisely written and competently directed.

    Sure it may not the most groundbreaking film out there, at least on its own merit, but yes, compared to the previous films, it is great in comparison. I'd compare it to something like Force Awakens or Mandalorian.

    Hey, at least it's not Three Hours of Mark & Shia complaining, while occasionally the titular robots show up in overblown fight choreographies.
    Sure, it plays it safe, but let's not deny it's at least a breath of fresh air.

    These points I can agree on.
     
  18. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

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    I think he is asking what will it take to make this a great new film series.
     
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  19. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde Destron Enforcer

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    This. As much as I like and appreciate Bumblebee for being an improvement over what we've gotten before, it needs to keep going. It shouldn't just stop here.
     
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  20. popcorn

    popcorn Well-Known Member

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    If growing up means robots humping, dude with a rape card, combiners with testicles, etc. then count me out. Other than the bots names and some sort of similar designs, I don't see much that makes them "most like G1". Devastator(Constructicons), for example, was featured quite heavily in Sunbow and I think we can agree is fairly well known/popular in the franchise. What does he do in the Bayverse? Sucks some sand, show off his balls and dies. The bots in these movies were props. With a few exceptions we don't get to know them. Many are introduced just to be killed off. What I enjoyed a lot about G1 is that the bots got the spotlight, this was in part due to Hasbro's mandate to sell the new toys, but it made them more enduring.
     
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