The original STAR TREK was cancelled after 2 seasons. Fans lobbied for its return. Explain to me why this was a bad thing. Fans complained about Movie Meg's face in TF '07. They changed it. Explain to me why this was a bad thing. Fans complained about Sonic. They fixed him. Now it's getting a sequel. Explain to me why this was a bad thing. Listening to the fans is ultimately a good thing. So why take the Snyder Cut so personal? Did he murder everyone's dog or something?
I’m sure they also delayed the movie so that they could make it appear like they were doing something as well. Studios really love it when productions go overtime and go over-budget.
Context matters. When others release concept art and other production trivia, it's usually part of the PR cycle, for the sake of releasing an artbook or other behind-the-scenes material, or maybe some candid moment during an interview session or whatnot. Snyder, meanwhile, teases his material in the middle of a controversy, instead, where it generates the maximum amount of heat, at a point where he's in no position to actually deliver anything. Ultimately, though, the thing is, is that it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. This whole discussion came about because people were discussing directors and other creatives interacting with their audiences in a poor and toxic manner. Snyder was being lauded for not sinking to that level, and I initially just dropped a one-liner to point out that it's possible to fuel that toxicity without active involvement. It's only when asked to elaborate further that the conversation headed in this direction. Sometimes, the question comes down not to "who wins?", but who "wins more"? In all of the previous examples, the fans come out ahead because things worked out in their favour without any active investment (aside from time) on their part. But who wins more here? WB potentially gains a bunch of subscribers to their new streaming service. Snyder has an in back into the industry where he was quickly becoming radioactive. The fans... get to pay again to see the movie on a gamble that it may or may not be "good" this time.
yeeeeeess...now you see the genius of the plan... so what though? he released stuff. stuff that was never supposed to see the light of day "hey guys cool thing to show you" is bad? again...they do it all the time. literally all the time. there's tons of extra marvel crap out there left over from their movies that are released daily. people know that he didn't finish his movie. people before him like his own actors stated there's extra footage and a different direction being taken when whedon took on. other people, not him, were talking about how much snyder had shot before whedon took over. so it got fans taking about it. so what if snyder said "hey guys i know you're really big on this 'snyder cut' and even though it probably won't happen here's a little something" and he shows artwork or a still shot or whatever. maybe the REAL context was "hey thanks for your support here's a little something that could have been". why are you making it out like it's nefarious in any way at all? if this whole thing was about directors cursing out and lashing out at "toxic" fans why is it when a guy that doesn't do any of those things show's a cool little what could have been thing he's the asshole here and he must be doing it to stoke fires and manipulate the masses? what's toxic is all this vitriolic pushback over a cut of a movie no one seems to like anyway. i know it's not really common practice in entertainment these days but god forbid a company gives fans what they want...what utter scum amirght?
He didn't have to, people were asking for it before he even mentioned it was a reality. People were asking for it pretty much as soon as it was released, as they already knew he'd been replaced and their were changes. You keep saying these vague things like "inciting a mob" or "bulldoze his way" but you have no evidence or examples of any lack of civility. You're literally just spinning a straightforward "hey do you guys want this?" "Yeah we do!" "Okay here you go" into some kind of weird conspiracy. Was WB harassed? Were actors attacked? Did the fans launch cyber-attacks? Like what are you actually talking about when you use these vague terms? But that's not what he did. He never fueled or provoked toxicity at all, and you have consistently failed to offer any evidence. All he ever did was say that if the fans wanted his cut all they had to do was make it known. And they did. There was no toxicity with the #SnyderCut thing. Again, cite me examples of any "toxicity" (really doubling down on the vagueness there) Snyder may have even tangentially provoked.
That's probably time for me to duck out on this particular subject. Honestly, the reason why I think the subject tweaks me the wrong way is that the current situation has him painted as a fandom hero, while I still see him as the same self-important jerk who damaged the franchise in the first place.
So it's your own emotional position that colours your analysis of events, then? Because I see him as neither. I don't like Snyder anymore than the next guy, but I'm not going to give him shit for something he didn't do. That's irrational, pointless, and does nothing to further constructive conversation. You're the one trying to incite incivility by arguing and putting blame and negativity onto someone whom it does not fit to, and to me that's what's actually "toxic."
I can take that. If I had to break that down further, I think because of the current worldwide political climate, I'm increasingly wary of people trying to sell me snake oil. And I see Snyder there, poised to cash in on promises that he can't keep, I can't help but be suspicious. And again, my prior knowledge of his character doesn't help in this regard. But you're right in that it's ultimately all conjecture, so I withdraw my hat from the ring.
I have no problem with Pryor's bumbling, it just should have been reduced, instead of making it star him. That is the film's biggest mistake. Best of all, we got that awesome fight scene between Superman and Clark. Oh, can't forget evil Drunk Superman. Superman 1 and 2, are better made films, but Superman 3, has quickly become my favorite Superman film, after rediscovering it, watching it for the first time in decades, about 5 years ago. It's not a perfect film, mainly do to how much it focuses on Pryor, but, it certainly is a great film. It's the one that does the most things I'd expect a movie about Superman to do, too. Like... Ridiculous things, like dropping a frozen lake on to a chemical fire. Now, that's Superman.
Hey- at least you can see that. And I’m not knocking you- I actually do appreciate your candor. I dunno... I’ve read your posts- seriously and not snarky- and... I’m sorry: even taking everything you say at face value I just don’t see any of it as bad. Opportunistic? Sure. But I don’t even see that as bad. Agree to disagree I suppose.
Oh, yea, Superman 4 is still my second favorite Superman film. But, not because it's a Superman film, but because just how big of a trainwreck it is. If for nothing else, other than the awesomeness of Nuclear Man. Superman just got hammered into the moon. It's my favorite disasterpiece film.
He literally says that there are bad faith actors on all sides. They’re mad because the fans are being listened to, and that infuriates them for some bizarre reason. I saw the same anger when Sonic was redesigned. That was sarcasm, buddy.
wait really?! i thought the original was universally hated an the redesign was welcomed. i guess with all the lunacy and 'outrage' over little shit all the time i missed this.
Can't believe people are complaining about a release that takes nothing away from them...their time or wallet. Tired of people feigning outrage for other people.
Anyone who knows me knows I don’t care much for Campea. But I saw the title of this video and so I watched it. I’m almost troubled by how much on the same page I am with him.
It’s a fucking terrible Superman movie devoid of any charm. Completely and epically misses the mark. Look up in the sky....
I mean conceptually I'm pretty sure I understand what Man of Steel was going for, and for what it's worth I don't think it's a bad movie. But I don't think it makes a good Superman movie. I get the purpose of deconstructing what the character is supposed to represent, because ideally that would lead into building him back up, and by the end he truly becomes Superman, but...That's just not what the movie did.
Yeah, that's my biggest issue here too. I also think the issue could have been solved by doing another Superman film and maybe even a Batman film before throwing this Superman in with the Batman we saw in Dawn of Justice. WB was just too in a rush to get there once they saw the success of the 2012 Avengers film. Superman really needed more growth as a character.
