Snyder's Justice League

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by Scourgatron, May 20, 2020.

  1. Pharoid

    Pharoid Time Traveling Robot

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    Oh if you go consult your usual SW sources on Reddit I’m sure they’ll lie something up for you to feign outrage about.
     
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  2. ABH1979

    ABH1979 Veteran

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    Just fan speculation, but I’ve seen some suggest that Snyder’s JL may end in a way to sort of soft-reboot the DCEU — which could make sense of some of the holdovers like Gal’s WW, Momoa’s Aquaman, apparently more of Cavill’s Superman, while also jettisoning Affleck’s Batman.

    Yeah, that’s more or less where I sit with this.

    Whedon’s release was a terrible mishmash of a movie. If Whedon would have been allowed to really make his own JL movie, it might have been good (maybe), but he had to play in Snyder’s universe and use at least part of what was already filmed. And what we got was an awkward mess.

    Snyder’s Cut May also be bad, but it will be “Snyder’s bad”, and at the very least, should match up with MOS/BVS better. And for that reason alone, I expect that I will like Snyder’s Cut more.
     
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  3. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Of corse this is for HBO Max.
    Of course if it wasn’t for HBO Max this might not have happened.

    BUT... if it wasn’t for the fan movement it wouldn’t have happened for HBO Max either.
     
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  4. Fenrys

    Fenrys Formerly Tigatron2002

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    Personally I'm hoping Darkseid kills Affleck's Batman, that way the DCEU can continue (on from the snyder cut) without him. I really liked him in the role, but if he is really out then don't leave it ambiguous
     
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  5. Laser_Optimus

    Laser_Optimus Currently no longer giving a shit about the MCU. TFW2005 Supporter

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    The fan speculation of a soft-reboot could be interesting if it happens. Especially since there are rumors that Cavill is in talks to continue on as Superman. I'm going to be curious to see how they handle Ezra Miller's Flash moving forward too with the nonsense currently surrounding him... though we really haven't heard much about it outside of the initial accusations that I've seen.

    Also, agreed that at least this will be Synder's version that will line up better with what came before it. I'm not a big fan of what Snyder but at least his version will be consistent with what he did with MoS & BvS.
     
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  6. Pharoid

    Pharoid Time Traveling Robot

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    I would like to see Cavill continue on as Superman. Despite not being a fan of his Superman movies I do think he is a good Superman and Snyder never allowed him to actually be Superman.
     
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  7. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    The problem is you buying into the supposed numbers/legitimacy of the “toxic” fans. You just assume anyone who disagrees are racist/sexist/etc because that’s what the media say they are. You don’t care about hearing other people, you’d rather just write them off as “wrong” to reassure yourself. There’s assholes everywhere on the internet on every side, but you only seem to acknowledge them as a sizable chunk of a group when it’s advantageous for your argument.

    Where are these harassing trolls that pushed for the Snyder cut? Where are the effects of their wrongdoing? I don’t pretend they don’t exist, I just don’t acknowledge them when I talk about “fans” because they’re so clearly not the people I’m referring to. Otherwise you could always find an example of some shithead somewhere misrepresenting a group no matter what side of the argument they fall on, people who aren’t interested in conversation so much as shouting.

    What I take issue with is how the use of “toxic” or its lesser known cousin “problematic” are used to label people in order to have their opinions dismissed or ignored due to their association with something. It happens everywhere, it’s happened here. It’s an excuse to ignore any and all opposition you want whenever you want because that’s easier than actually attempting to understand the other side because you’re afraid they might actually be right. Snyder cut supporters have to be wrong so we’ll call them toxic, TLJ haters have to be wrong so we’ll call them sexist, because if we don’t label them as something objectively and morally wrong then we might have to consider the fact that they actually aren't.


    EDIT: Oh, and no I’m not a Snyder fan. I hate all his movies, I hate what he’s done to the DC universe, and if the Snyder cut was never released I’d only nod and say “good, let it die.” But I’m tired of watching the same cycle repeat. Group A represents an interest, group B represents an opposite viewpoint, group A argues that opposing view, only for group B to then attack group A’s character because they cannot successfully form a counter argument of their own. Rinse and repeat.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  8. RetrogradeMercury

    RetrogradeMercury Well-Known Member

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    I think you are vastly overestimating and buying into the supposed number of people who act as “white knights” simply to call those they disagree with as wrong. I’m not disagreeing that “toxic” and “problematic” are used disingenuously by some. But there are many of us who do try to legitimately call out toxic and problematic behaviors.

    So your view of thinking character attacks are mostly disingenuous is just as broad and reductive a label as someone labeling a fan community as being mostly toxic trolls.
     
  9. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Tell you what: if I give you a dollar can you give me a break?

    "wathitht and thexith fanz…"... can we cut the crap? Not just you, but the whole f/king planet? There are bad actors all the way around. Always have been, always will be and are continually now bad actors.

    You. Me. and every other a-hole who reads this post.

    Seriously.

    True story: prior to TF '07, I was on another TF message board where a good, wholesome wonderfully progressive lover of diversity and inclusion... wished someone die from a painful death for not liking Bay's bot designs. I even seem to recall the term "robophobic bigot" associated with him.
    He might have been talking about me... I dunno. I've been the recipient of plenty of hate from phony preachers of love. But that's another story.

    Point is, while people here might think their shit don't stink and the other a-hole over there is worse than satan, I can guaran-damn-tee that he thinks his shit don't stink and thinks you are the abomination.

    So lets stop pretending that all you and yours on Rian Johnson's side live in a world where unicorns fart rainbows and are victims of the evil trollz; because the world of Candyland wages war against anyone for wrong-think and not liking a movie. It takes 2 to tango. I've see way too many times where good social justice types hate others who are different.

    We can't keep ;ushing this "toxic fan" nonsense just to control the situation over others. The will be - and is - push back. And its only gonna get worse.
    If people don't like toxicity, then maybe they should quit being so damn toxic. And that goes for fans, the media, and the creatives.
     
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  10. Pharoid

    Pharoid Time Traveling Robot

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    Oh the woes of the misunderstood “fan.”
     
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  11. RetrogradeMercury

    RetrogradeMercury Well-Known Member

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    So you’re just painting all progressive “sjw” posters as being disingenuous bigots themselves? Buddy, all of us aren’t just trying to hate on everyone that disagrees with us. Get outta here with that nonsense.
     
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  12. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    You can think I'm reading too far into the situation, but the reason I view Snyder's actions with a bit of side-eye is his timing in the matter.

    Mostly, that when he jumped on the bandwagon, he was in no position of authority over the movie's development/release. He had no say in whether his vision of the film would ever see release. He'd just stoke the flames by confirming that it existed, and how it was better than the theatrical cut, etc, etc. He didn't exactly promise that his version of the film would ever see release, but by fueling the mystique and furor over his version of the film, he'd have a crowd of fans ready to break down doors in his favour to get it.

    The only other interpretation here is that the whole thing is just a guerilla PR stunt from the Warner Bros. organization as a whole, but I dunno, the whole thing doesn't feel coordinated or timely enough.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  13. Minibots

    Minibots Greetings

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    I’m not really into DC anymore (or even Marvel.) But I’ll definitely be checking out this cut. To me, it sounds interesting.
     
  14. BB Shockwave

    BB Shockwave Behold, Gagatron!

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    Wow, some people really bought a billboard and a plane with a banner for this???
    There are some people with waaaay too much free time on their hand and even more disposable money...
     
  15. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    Or, maybe, he just knew that his version was far enough along that a recut was conceivable, and that if enough interest was garnered WB might give him that opportunity? “Fuelling the mystique,” you mean literally saying outright that if enough fans want it it would get made?

    You seem to insist on alternate motivations instead of the very cut and dry reality that played out. Like it’d be one thing if the Snyder cut was impossible and fans were clamouring for something they could never have, but it is and they can. I don’t see why you keep applying malice when, again, you’ve provided me no examples of negative results from the fans getting behind the Snyder cut, unless the actors on the film are also part of this problematic fan base?

    Snyder said his cut would be released if people wanted it, people wanted it, now it’s being released. I seriously do not see the problem. If, say, a director or creator said that something you wanted could happen if you showed support would you not? Would you just sit on your hands and be all “I mean I would retweet this hashtag, but I don’t want to be toxic.” Again, what separates Snyder from a Fieg or Johnson is Snyder didn’t argue with people online, he didn’t bitch out and block people, and he didn’t antagonize his fans and customers like a petulant child because they didn’t agree with him. Quite the opposite, he engaged in a civil and productive manner and it bore fruit.

    Literally no one lost here.
     
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  16. BB Shockwave

    BB Shockwave Behold, Gagatron!

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    Ummm... why is that a problem?
    download.jpg
    If I subscribed to every damn streaming channel I would literally have no money to spend on Transformers.
    Not that there are many of these that even exist in Hungary. We have Netflix and HBO and that's all.
    I buy shows and movies on BR/DVD that I like. The rest, I will torrent or stream-watch to check out.
     
  17. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    See, the way I see the order of events, Snyder was on the outs with WB. It's no secret that his star was no longer in favour with the studio after MoS and BvS underperformed. But he was still under contract for Justice League, and continued his duties to near completion. But when the tragedy with his daughter happened, the studio execs used those events to force him out, rather than act with sympathy and integrity and push the release date for the film.

    Even after the Whedon cut of Justice League bombed, that's not strong enough reason to hire Snyder back to complete his version of the film and try to claw back some of those lost millions, given Snyder's own failings.

    Of course, the emotional impetus here is purely conjecture on my part, but considering how highly Snyder seems to think of himself in interviews and what not (coupled with the talk of his Objectivist beliefs earlier), I can easily see him as being embittered by the whole situation. By piggybacking and stoking the furor of the Snyder Cut crowd, he use his fans as a megaphone to pressure the studio into giving him his way in the end.


    It's win-win only because he seemingly succeeded. But if the campaign hadn't succeeded? The fandom rivalries over the Snyder Cut would have died out without his input, as WB themselves expressed absolutely zero interest in the matter. But he lends his own voice to the situation, stoking the flames further instead, furthering that fandom divide in the process. That's what I mean by him helping to foment a toxic environment.


    Maybe I'm ascribing to him a nefariousness to him that's undeserved, I dunno. But I can't help but imagine his actions as being at least irresponsible.

    It comes down to how he positioned himself amidst the furor. If he had gone "show me your support and I will campaign to get the Snyder Cut finished", then I'd be with you on this, because that means he put his neck out on the front lines and took charge. But instead, he's remained relatively quiet, putting his fans on the frontline of the attack instead, which absolves him of any form of responsibility if the campaign fails. I see him as being manipulative in that scenario, rather than altruistic.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  18. BB Shockwave

    BB Shockwave Behold, Gagatron!

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    Let's not forget that this is a godsend for WB, who had to stop shooting of all movies do to the virus. This one is half finished already, post production can be done digitally in offices, and they can record the audio from the actors without having them go anywhere. It's win-win, since this 30 million they are spending? I bet they are losing far more by delaying their other movies.

    Oh yeah, Superman 3 (save for Richard Pryor's bumbling) is rather entertaining. I always liked to think the supercomputer was a live action version of Brainiac, and yeah that dude makes for a better Luthor (and even has his Mercy) than the original was.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  19. optimusmegas

    optimusmegas Target-Power-Titan-Prime-Battle-Master

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    football fans do this all the time. they rent a plane and a banner to fly over a stadium during practice with a phrase or stat against an opposing team. they'll put up billboards that can be seen when a team comes into the city or in a location they know they'll see it.

    often times it's a group that organized this thing and they all chip in so in the end it's like $5 a person to do it.
     
  20. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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