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Community Reboot Comics (Rules in first post)

 

Aww how cute, Bonecrusher thinks he’s Devcon!

 

Well, Hasbro does label Sentinel Prime as Decepticon in SS toyline, even though he was labeled as Autobot in DOTM line to avoid spoilers. Lockdown (who hates both Autobot and Decepticon) is also labeled as Decepticon just because he is killing Autobot in TF4. Basically, any Transformer who is killing Autobot and/or helping destroy the Earth in the movie, is a Decepticon.

Just go with whatever the package label the characters and it won’t be far wrong. Even though I put Sentinel Prime on Autobot shelf because it has more space. (And he WAS once an Autobot.)

 

Except his instructions have him as autobot

 

True, it seems like Hasbro is not sure about this either! I think the package should be Autobot while instruction is Decepticon, that would be interesting!

 

Here's the simple solution to all of this discussion of where Sentinel belongs.

"I hereby sentence you to death for treachery against the Autobots and intent of genocide against the human race"

 

And here's my long answer...

The topic of Sentinel being an Autobot or Decepticon should be with regard not only to his deeds but also to his sense of mortality vs allegiance alone. Does he belong with the Autobots?

"Being right in one's own eyes" is purely subjective. The "Sentinel does what he believes to be for the greater good, so he's an Autobot" angle doesn't fly. Or does it?

General Zod (in Man of Steel) had the same convictions as Sentinel, but is there any doubt at all about how VILLAINOUS he truly is? What about Thanos from the Marvel movies? Intergalactic genocide, anyone? Villains are always right in their own eyes. One could say "Megatron does what he believes to be for the greater good, so he's a Decepticon". Maybe that angle doesn't fly. Or does it?

Maybe Mr. Gould is the hero, believing he saved Cybertron!

Sentinel was willing to commit planetary slavery and genocide on the entire human race to bring life back to Cybertron. How's that sit with a moral code of conduct? Sure he worked WITH and not FOR Megatron, but does that not make him a Decepticon? Maybe neither.

Optimus was willing to sacrifice his life for the human race in the first movie, died protecting Sam in the second movie, and willing submitted himself and his team to the American government rule and support with military operations. He is compelled to respect the rule of law. Sentinel deceived many, killed Ironhide and attempted to kill Bumblebee, Sideswipe and Optimus. He betrayed the Autobots. He disregards virtue and morality. An Autobot values loyalty, justice, all life and freedom, which should disqualify Sentinel based on his demonstrable words and actions shown in the third movie.

Is Jetfire considered a Decepticon even though his sympathies lie with the Autobots? He literally stated he switched sides to the Autobots, but is that really black and white? What makes him an Autobot, then? Because he said so? I'd like to believe him! He sacrificed himself to help Optimus defeat the Fallen.

When did Optimus become a villain? When he was shown taking heads without hesitation? The manner in which he killed The Fallen, Megatron and Sentinel? How about when (as Lockdown stated) the "cause" betrayed him? The rules have just changed! Right? When he killed the human Attinger and Lockdown? Or when he was corrupted by Quintessa into Nemesis Prime? Or, do you still consider him the Commander of the Autobots regardless of the actions he takes?

"So Optimus kills Deceptions. I guess that makes him one too." I understand the sentiment which was to illustrate a disagreement - and I agree. What's the cause that drove him to his actions in these movies? What is the difference between a police officer that has to kill vs a criminal who kills? One has a uniform and the other doesn't? One is protected by law while the other breaks it? Was there any kill Optimus did that wasn't necessary? We have to consider the terms of engagement in each and every conflict. When the "cause" betrayed him, the "cause" deemed him a villain. When does loyalty and honor actually bear on this issue?

Sentinel is ideologically on par with Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot and any other human figure responsible for the mass murder of a people. Extremely dictatorial and downright tyrannical. Sentinel made a deal with the Devil (Megatron) for what he believed to be the greater good, and betrayed his Autobot brethren in word and deed as a result, willing to kill anyone who got in his way. The Decepticon warships obeyed his commands. He killed Autobots and even confessed to betraying Optimus after trying to kill him. Is that enough to decide what shelf he should be on? In that regard, that's kind of a funny question.

How do you define one side vs others? Good vs Evil? Without a standard of mortality and a principled code of conduct to clearly delineate right vs wrong and good vs evil, we are only left with extreme subjectivity, chaos and who is right in their own eyes. Might as well be a "You do you", as the saying goes. Maybe he deserves his own shelf like Lockdown does. No faction.

Personally, I would like to see any posts that support Sentinel being an Autobot be substantiated from a moralistic standpoint, beyond his apparent convictions and stated causes.

All in all, way too deep for a movieverse toy appreciation thread about Michael Bay movie character no less, imo. Sorry for the rambling. I consider him to be evil in his spark, like a Sith who only deals in absolutes! His deeds do not align with Autobot ideology. Therefore, not an Autobot - unless you want to consider him an hypocritical Autobot lololol. Autobot in name only.

The question is "Black and White", but I don't think the answer is. Seems multilayered, which sadly gives Michael Bay more credit than I think he deserves. As far as what shelf Sentinel should go on, well, I must borrow from what Jetfire said on Autobots vs Deceptions to answer this question:

"It's a choice. It's an intensely personal decision."



SPACE PIRATE.

 

Studio Series Starscream and Earthrise Starscream.

 

I think the problem is that morality and faction are being conflated by users when they shouldn't be. You can argue that Sentinel doesn't "deserve" to be an Autobot which is a fair point. He does underhanded things and tries to justify the mass enslavement of humanity because it will bring a net good. There's no doubt he acts like a stereotypical Decepticon. I'm just saying you cannot say he IS a Decepticon because that's an objective criteria he doesn't meet. He actively refuses to join them. You can learn to speak Russian, study the culture and folk tales, dress like a Russian, etc., but unless you actively go out and try to get Russian citizenship you are not a Russian.

Sentinel Prime IS an Autobot. He's a pretty horrible Autobot, and a pretty horrible person. Maybe he acts like how you expect a Decepticon to act, maybe he doesn't deserve to wear the same badge as Optimus. But doing shitty things doesn't fill out a form that signs you up for the other army. That dissonance is what makes Sentinel Prime compelling and is the entire point of the character. He tries to walk the line and doesn't realize how dangerous that is. He acts like the enemy to achieve his own goals and never pauses to think he might have gone too far. If he were to just go "blah I'm a Decepticon now" it makes him a generic redcoat character and not the strangely interesting one he is.

"Decepticon" is a military organization, not a state of mind. Sentinel Prime never joined. He literally cannot be one.

 

Speaking of Sentinel, is anyone else kept awake by the fact that when Optimus hands the Matrix over to Sentinel in Dark of the Moon, Sentinel shouldn't actually have any idea of what the Matrix is

No? Just me? Okay...



Nevermind that it's the Earthrise Optimus Matrix, I don't have a Movie version

 

Autobot is also a faction. I do not think that is necessary to wow to defend justice, honor and the freedom of the all sentient beings to join Autobot cause. This is all Optimus' own shit. In the movieverse we saw our share of violent Autobots. Triggerhappy Ironhide or Hound would certainly vaporate humans if they perceive them enemies and if Optimus was not there. Autobots, like all military/political factions, behave as their leader chooses. I don't think Grimlock gives a rat's ass about the humans or earth.

For all we know, if Optimus was killed in Cybertron, Sentinel would made his deal with Megatron openly and will have little opposition among his subjects. If Sentinel had his own way, i think Optimus would start a third faction against Autobot oppressors.

 

In one breath you say he isn't because he never joined the Decepticons yet stand by the position of him being an Autobot.

I never said he was a Decepticon, but by ALL acounts he is not an Autobot. He betrayed the Autobots, but I digress    . I disagree with you completely on him being an Autobot. I think he is neither, and probably deserves his own shelf. Lol.

 

I just rewatched the scene. I think he had the nazi pin to show that he was some sort of VIP, and the reveal in the dust was a symbolic flourish from Spielberg. You're correct in that they're different because Sentinel never wore a decepticon badge, but the character arc is pretty much the same so I feel my point stands.

Imagine this: Some high ranking american general defects to russia and commits some horrible acts of treason. You wouldn't say "they were never an american general because they were a bad person", because they were. They just were. Their wikipedia page will always list the years they were active members of the american military. Sentinel's bad actions will never erase his (probably millions of) years as an autobot. This is a fun discussion though!

I completely agree with this. I don't think it's that hard of a question when you dig beneath the surface. You can debate Sentinel as a character all you want but you can't deny that he WAS an autobot, at least for half the movie.

I would also like to add that we know very little of Sentinel's life before the ark attempted to leave Cybertron and was shot and crashed. He could have been a great leader, and an inspiring figure who embodied all the ideals of being an autobot for countless millennia before he became an asshole. He may have been just as kind at heart as Optimus for a time. Not likely, but who knows! All we really know is that he was considered really smart, and was obviously charismatic enough to be a leader, and that Optimus trusted him enough to basically hand him the matrix, but that towards the end of the war he decided to change. Maybe it was desperation, maybe he stopped caring. We even see this in Optimus for a time in aoe.
I would also like to mention

I think it's pretty clear that they completely ditched the "matrix is just a key to the sun killer machine" angle (which was stupid) and basically retconned it into being similar to the G1 matrix, which I'm OK with.

 

@Shmoptimus Prime I guess the question of IS he and WAS he should be 2 different things also. Lol.

I never said he wasn't an Autobot. He certainly isn't one by the time we see him in action on Earth. If it should be argued, then I say he is ONLY in name.

 

I mean, isn't this all one big discussion of semantics? haha!

 

From now on I'm gonna display my Studio Series Sentinel with my NECA Godzilla figures because I don't play by the rules

 

You know, I would say if it can still be argued he IS and not just WAS... he should have been tried before the Transformers judges for his crimes against humanity, and if he were to be found guilty and given a life sentence, revoke his allegiance to the Autobots as a penalty!!!



But then again, those Quintessons tend to be highly biased!!!

 

Let’s just say Sentinel is a, “deceptibot” and leave it at that.

 

Anyone know the answer?

 

Captured by Lockdown