and?
I’m not the only one to view the issue differently then you do

The difference i see is easy acceptance

And as I said sometimes too much information can hamper understanding

So quick question, your personal measure of validity is not dependent on legality on validity?

 

Yes, and that's a decision we make as consumers of fiction. I could be more nitpicky about small details if I wanted to be, but I choose to be less picky because pretty much all fictional narratives have inconsistencies or gaps in logic or things that don't make sense without some reinterpretation here and there.

A person's individual capacity to understand information doesn't change the fact that the information allows for greater understanding and thus appreciation.

It's like if I say a heavier hammer can smash bigger rocks. Of course you need to be able to lift the hammer in the first place, but that does not change the fact that the heavier hammer can smash bigger rocks.

No, all I care about is judging a narrative in isolation. Legality is not part of a narrative.

 

But there comes a point when you’re not just re-interpreting things here or there but you’re pretty much re-writing the story

I find it much easier to accept the writers intent, the the conclusion derived from that

they wanted the back story to be parts of both the 2 main continuities......meaning it can’t be A or B

conclusion C

yes it does

It’s not about lacking the capacity to understand the information, but of not having the desire for it

In other words, without the want or ability to break rocks, that bigger hammer, it in fact....can do nothing what so ever

But the question was about Validity?

Using your hypothetical, if a bunch of wealthy fans funded a transformers cartoon/comic/novel/movie with great Production values and a fantastic story, not only would I love it but I would recommend it to anyone and everyone who is a fan of the series

But I would not consider that to be just as valid as anything coming from Hastak because it’s is not offically made, it is not made by the company that ones the rights to distribute the material

And I hold to the same pretty principle 3rd party or custom made toys , I can appreciate them for what they are,Beautiful renditions, but they would not be valid toys

 

Using your own fan fiction as evidence in any kind of argument is the equivalent of saying "It's true, because I said so."

 

And it's your choice to look at it that way.

Whereas I look at something like Blackarachnia's flashback, and I see it as something that fits as long as there's at least one interpretation that can fit.

And I wonder, what intent are you going off of? There were lots of writers with lots of intents. Then BM brought a whole new slew of writers plus you had the guys overseeing everything at Hasbro, not to mention the animators at Mainframe who had a huge amount of free reign, and then you eventually have stuff like the 3H comics on top of that. Surely at least some of those writers along the way saw the G1 toon as the backstory of what was happening. Whereas other saw it completely differently. It's like arguing that the intended flavor of a stew made by dozens of cooks is the flavor we actually ended up with.

Then it's a matter of preference, like I said. If you don't want to have a deeper understanding and appreciation for certain narrative elements, that's fine, but it doesn't change the physical reality of what that information allows for.

Same as how a lack of desire to use a heavier hammer does not change its physical capacity to let someone break bigger rocks.

If person A states "this heavier hammer can let you smash bigger rocks", and person B says "no it can't, because I don't want to use a heavier hammer", then person B is missing the point and is making an irrelevant counterargument.

It would be valid to me, officially accepted and endorsed by the committee of one that I appointed to determine such things.

 

As much as it is your choice to just to accept things they way you have

common that had to be obvious by now

The topic was beast wars backstory,not beast machines.Hasbro overseers rarely participate in the creative process, in the end their contribution is usually their stamp of approval.Sequels wouldn’t be part of the equation since they Have to do their best to follow the predecessor.Animation Studios are hired and fired, they come and go and usually work by contract.Even in a team of writers for any project there’s going to be someone(or more) who’s the boss.

Allowance doesn’t always result in reality, And even that allowance can hamper the end result if there’s confusion in some of that other information

Which again is what we got because there’s no reason to assume everyone will end up with the same interpretation

And I wouldn’t consider it an irrelevant counter argument

A Community maybe but hardly a committee.

 

Yes, of course.

Well as I said at the start, I'm judging the totality of the narrative from the beginning of G1 to the end of BM (and sometimes with the 3H comics thrown in when I'm in the mood for it).

And yes, there's typically a head editor (or two, in Beast Wars' case), but they are far from being responsible for every aspect of the show, and it would be inaccurate to say that Beast Wars is a pure reflection of their creative vision. Heck, they weren't even the ones who came up with the core concept of Beast Wars. Like, even things like the existence and subsequent death of Tigerhawk were pushed onto the writers against their intent. Does that mean Tigerhawk doesn't exist?

As Larry Ditillio said in that quote I posted before, only what makes it onscreen actually matters, the writer's interpretation of what's on screen is just as much an interpretation as anyone else's (unless they add it onscreen at some point in the future, which no BW writer is in a position to do any longer).

You're just restating the same point I already addressed. Whether or not someone actually takes advantage of the information is irrelevant to the fact that it's there for someone to take advantage of if they so desire. That's why BW even ties back into G1 in the first place.

Which is why you keep missing the point.

I was jokingly referring to myself as the committee. Because I, and I alone, decide what is valid to me. I don't care what is valid to Hasbro, or the law, when I judge and interpret fiction (or action figures). I care what is valid to me.

 

i this agree, they may not do the work themselfs but as the show runners they are most Responsible for just about everything in the show ,except for the Completely unavoidable

Decisions pushed on them by executives are slightly different but how those decisions to get presented is still within their control

No ll offically produces fiction gets a tv show or film, So at the very least saying “on screen Is debatable”

and as I have said several times, I agree with that school of thought, and feel that their intent in this case made it “on screen”

Because what you were dressed didn’t cover the point

Whether or not someone actually takes advantage of the information is irrelevant to the fact that it's there for someone to take advantage of if they so desire. That's why BW even ties back into G1 in the first place.

We were not talking about if the information exsisted, but wether or not knowing it would lead to a better experience......And while it might for some it doesn’t for others

I’m not the one missing the point, you continue to make generalize universal statement as if they would apply to everyone

and they don’t

Sorry the joke went over my head thanks for cleaning it up

 

Yea, but this discussion isn't about what's important to who, or what fan fiction is, or isn't. It's all about whether or not Beast Wars fits in to the G1 cartoon. And, all this fan fiction is irrelevant to the question. If you want to talk about the importance of fan fiction vs official fiction, make a different thread.

It has no relevance to this topic.

 

They didn't write the majority of episodes, they didn't come up with the core concept or the character concepts or the various forms or things like the golden disk or whether or not the show was set in the past or on an alien planet (that stuff was decided by marketing people at Hasbro), heck they didn't even agree 100% with eachother all the time.

They guided the show, made sure everyone's contributions tied together nicely (in a way they've described as "winging it"), wrote some fantastic episodes, and were certainly instrumental in making the show as great as it is, but they were not responsible for "just about everything". Beast Wars (and the entire narrative including G1 and BM) is very much a patchwork quilt that does not represent any single person's creative vision.

It covered my point, which is what I've been defending this entire time.

No, that's what you were talking about because you keep misinterpreting and misrepresenting my points.

I was only ever talking about having a full understanding and appreciation of the narrative threads. Somehow you misunderstood that to be the same as "enjoyment" and now you won't let it go.

My point is ultimately a simple "if then" proposition. If you are willing and capable of engaging with the information, then you will have a greater understanding and appreciation of the narrative. And if you want this greater understanding and appreciation, then you need to include sources outside of BW by itself.

You are in fact missing my point completely.

 

Irrelevant

as the story editors cut was their Responsibility to make sure everything flows together

If you’re going to give them props for what they did right and you also got to fault them when they mess up

And what makes you think the golden disk concept was Hasbros?

I’m not Misrepresenting anything ,More like you think your point is the only one again

Take a look at the two of us for example, both more than wanting/willing and capable of engaging with the information, and yet we have both come to different conclusions/understanding/Appreciation for the narrative

Im not missing your point at all, All the other sources will not result in the same level of understanding and appreciation for everyone

 

From the reference to Starscream getting blasted by Galvatron to the Bots and Cons being in stasis aboard the ark for millions of years, I have to also go with the G1 cartoon backstory.

That and the fact, I'm not as familiar with the Marvel G1 story to be able to know how well it would synch up to BW.

 

Yeah, they made sure everything flowed together and they did a fantastic job.

It was still a patchwork quilt of numerous creators.

They mentioned it in one of the Rhino DVD interviews.

I don't think it's the only one, it's just the only one I'm talking about. It's the only one I've been defending this whole time. I never said people couldn't enjoy less information or that people couldn't prefer to have less information. That's you putting words into my mouth.

 

in your opinion

Do You got a citation or the actual words?
......I don’t see how the golden disk was a marketing ploy

And that’s the fault in your claims because you present them as if everyone would benefit or see it the way you did

 

You don't think they did a fantastic job?

But sure, in my opinion they did a fantastic job.

I'll find it later when I'm not on my phone. But if you haven't watched the Rhino interviews, I recommend it. The creation process behind Beast Wars is fascinating, so much of it was just a happy accident. Also I've got to give kudos to Ben Yee from BTWF.com, it seems like he made a bunch of important contributions despite only being involved in the creative process in an unofficial capacity.

That's just your interpretation of them.

 

It depends on what the question is really referring to

I think they did a great job of incorporating as much as they did and being able to please to sides of the fandom

ive seen some of Behind the scene interviews but I was given those DVDs a few years ago as a gift and life has been pretty hectic for over a decade for me

Believe me it’s more of the way you’re putting it out there but at this point I see no reason to continue talking about that

 

I think they did an adequate job with it. But, they could have done a whole lot better. Being that the BW writers and animators already had the G1 show/comics to reference, and they chose to reference them very loosely.

Could have done a far better job with it, but they didn't. But, they did a passable job. I'd give them a C at best in that regard. 7 out of 10.

In regards to BW as a whole, it's still the best storytelling Transformers has ever had, and likely to remain the reigning champion throughout the rest of our lives, especially considering the direction Hasbro is currently going with the movies/TV shows. A series that has yet to be matched in that regard.

 

Agreed

 

Well I think they did a fantastic job in general when you factor in how much was out of their control. Like, my biggest criticism of Beast Wars would be the out of place slapstick humor becoming too prominent in season 3, but that was entirely a Hasbro decision.

Other things, like how much they could incorporate from G1, were limited by what the animators could do and what the budget allowed for. It's kind of amazing that fate made it possible for them to work in Starscream and Ravage as significant characters without using completely new character models.

Like I said, Beast Wars exists as we know it in large part because of a lot of happy accidents and bunch of people who were flying by the seat of their pants.

Here's the quote in question, where he describes working with Hasbro and the marketing people.

Well, all I can do is clarify.

 

Animated and Prime were both pretty good. And, you know...if they were to give Cyberverse twice the running time, I think it COULD get close. There's some pretty good stories and character progression being told but it all feels rushed due to the 10 minute time limit. And as far as the named body count is concerned, I think we're at least getting close to the 1986 movie. It looks and pretends to be light and fluffy...but it's probably darker than TFPrime ever made itself out to be. It's like Boulder Media wants to make War For Cybertron instead of Cyberverse...it really, really wants to...

But I agree that Beast Wars is a standard in storytelling.