BSF: “4P is a lie”

Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by bellpeppers, Mar 7, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Goregrinder

    Goregrinder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2019
    Posts:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Likes:
    +360
    you don't really know what theft means do you?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. octobotimus

    octobotimus Bad company ruins good morals

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2017
    Posts:
    27,173
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    327
    Location:
    Washington
    Likes:
    +82,504
    Ebay:
    Instagram:
    That's why he said IF
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Posts:
    27,633
    News Credits:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    Somewhere over Macho Grande
    Likes:
    +26,765
    Making money off of other people’s property without their permission?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Reygn

    Reygn Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2019
    Posts:
    2,672
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Location:
    Elk Grove, California
    Likes:
    +3,582
    This kind of theft feels good.
     
  5. Subotnik

    Subotnik Please Stand By.

    Joined:
    May 25, 2003
    Posts:
    1,842
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +2,503
    Are you saying it's not stealing if you don't make money off of it?
     
  6. JJJ

    JJJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2018
    Posts:
    3,775
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Australia's dead heart
    Likes:
    +6,302
    Then you're going to be stunned by the movement to have artists receive a share of all sales of their works, not just the initial one (Resale Royalty Rights).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Goregrinder

    Goregrinder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2019
    Posts:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Likes:
    +360
    theft tends to involve taking something. if you're a pot-maker and i go into your house and steal your molds and then make my own copies of your pot to sell, that's theft. if i made my own pots that look kinda like your pot but are made totally differently, and i sell those, are you gonna call the cops and say 'he stole my pots?'
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. caudex

    caudex New World Pre-Order

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Posts:
    477
    Trophy Points:
    142
    Likes:
    +1,563
    3P and KO are not the same. It's extremely hard win a copyright argument in court. Without infringing on DC's copyright one whit I can publish a comic book about a guy who wears a bat suit and fights crime called Bat Guy, just as long as he isn't also Bruce Wayne whose got a butler named Alfred and whose parents were killed by the Joker. With Transformer toys, that linkage is even more distant. A red and blue robot truck with antenna ears, face mask, visible chest innards and a long gun does not alone an Optimus make. Legally speaking, images of Optimus are protected as a visual representation of the character Optimus. But if my red and blue 3P robot has certain unique qualities dissimilar to official renditions of Optimus, then who's to say if it's a representation of Optimus or not. With KO, it's obvious mimicry, so unquestionably a violation.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Posts:
    27,633
    News Credits:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    Somewhere over Macho Grande
    Likes:
    +26,765
    I could- especially if you got too close to any copyright element on that pot.

    Like a radius of the screen of a cel phone. Or a bezel. Or if the shape of a car headlight comes to close to looking like a headlight of a Ford Mustang.

    A pre-school hand paints Mickey, Minney, Donald, and Goofy on their playroom wall.
    The law is firmly on Disney’s side and they can sue the preschool for damages.

    Disney can- and has- taken legal action because a grieving family put Spider Man on their 3 year old son’s grave.

    Diring RID, Hasbro made a Dodge Viper and got in trouble.

    You can take the easy way out and make a mold of a licensed product and sell it without legal permission, or the hard way out and draw it up, 3D print it, make molds and sell it without legal permission. You know what they have in common? You are selling both without legal permission.

    Any unauthorized reproduction of a likeness is considered theft.

    That’s all there is to it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Goregrinder

    Goregrinder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2019
    Posts:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Likes:
    +360
    the small details also explicitly matter in copyright stuff. there are tons of videos picking apart the differences between TE-01, MP-44, and Magic Square.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Posts:
    27,633
    News Credits:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    Somewhere over Macho Grande
    Likes:
    +26,765
    And could TE-O1 be sold in a Wal Mart without Hasbro’s lawyers taking action?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Alph

    Alph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    Posts:
    4,186
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Likes:
    +10,707
    Right? I was listening to an interview with David Wise shortly after his passing, and in it he mentioned how he doesn't get paid a dime for his contributions to the TF or Ninja Turtles franchises. Writers like him are the entire reason I care so much about these characters that I'm willing to pay hundreds of dollars for a figure that looks like them.

    How much money do Bob Forward, Larry Ditillio, or Ian Weir get when I buy a mastepiece Dinobot toy? How much goes in the pocket of some suit and tie that hired a bunch of creative talent while ensuring said creative talent would get paid the minimum amount possible?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Goregrinder

    Goregrinder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2019
    Posts:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Likes:
    +360
    again, copyright stuff has to be proven in court. you can take anyone to court for anything, and if you have enough money you can make it stick. disney gets away with shit because they have more money than god, and most people settle with them out of fear.

    none of this has anything to do with morality either, as disney are obviously morally in the wrong with any of this shit.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Posts:
    27,633
    News Credits:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    Somewhere over Macho Grande
    Likes:
    +26,765
    Try this one on for size:
    Buy a Joker doll.
    Put a nurse’s uniform on it and sell it on eBay as a custom.

    And watch WB have the auction taken down and slap you with a C&D. It’s happened.

    Hasbro is incredibly cool about this stuff. Just because they choose to not take action doesn’t mean it’s any less illegal.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. CybertronianFan

    CybertronianFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2013
    Posts:
    8,707
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    242
    Likes:
    +2,556
    You could, but the cops won't do squat because it wasn't an actual theft. You could, however, try to take that person to court ...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. cj37a

    cj37a Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Posts:
    4,159
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Location:
    Under-sea headquarters.
    Likes:
    +3,439
    I must insist. This post belongs in the Transformers 4th Party Forum.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  17. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Posts:
    27,633
    News Credits:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    Somewhere over Macho Grande
    Likes:
    +26,765
    Doesn’t matter; Law is on their side.
    And if you make a pot like mine without my ok, the same law that’s on Disney’s side is on my side.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Reygn

    Reygn Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2019
    Posts:
    2,672
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Location:
    Elk Grove, California
    Likes:
    +3,582
    I think all of us here know something like TE-01 is intellectual theft, but we will argue on how morally wrong it is.

    Captain Marvel was labeled as infringing on Superman, because the law ahreed with DC, but does that make it right ?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Posts:
    97,680
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    462
    Location:
    agile house
    Likes:
    +98,700
    Instagram:
    They do, but not the way you're thinking.

    A theoretical lawsuit won't concern itself with specific panel-lines or whether the hinges for the elbows are in the same spot, but things like "does the mouthplate look the same?" or "how many antennae does it have?" Again, the details of construction do not matter, it's the details of design and the overall likeness. And not tiny details, but character-defining things like the colours, colour layout, face, silhouette, etc.

    The hell are you talking about? He got paid when he wrote the scripts. That's how freelance and contracts both work.

    Again, this calls back to "if everyone's going to receive royalties for everything they've ever contributed to, everyone would be getting paid all the time and there'd be absolutely no functioning economy left.

    Nothing, because they already got paid back in 1996-1999 when they wrote the character.

    Unless you want to wholly own your character, don't expect to receive royalties "just 'cuz." And if you want to wholly own your character, don't do contract work for big companies. This is not a secret, it's not a scam or legally shady, it's a very obvious and accepted fact of the industry that makes the most basic and practical amount of sense, and every writer you mentioned was well aware of it when taking those jobs. After all, Bob Forward didn't come up with the name Dinobot or the character design. That was Hasbro, so how can they claim monetary entitlement when they were themselves using someone else's name and character? (they can't, and wouldn't, and would probably laugh at you if they read this post)

    Think of it like this: say you want to sell you MP Dinobot one day for more than you originally paid. (a likely and understandable situation) Are you going to send a portion of your profit to Hasbro or Bob or Larry's family yourself? After all you're profiting off of someone else's work. The answer is of course not, because that's fucking looney and you already paid everything they were owed when you first bought it, just like Hasbro bought Bob and Larry's services back in the 90's and paid them back then.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Goregrinder

    Goregrinder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2019
    Posts:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Likes:
    +360
    it really isn't. you don't understand how civil suits work. 3P stuff isn't illegal till it's taken to court and declared illegal by a judge. Hasbro can lean on people with threats of making them pay court fees, like they did with zeta. a LARGE amount of copyright disputes are based around the bigger party threatening the smaller with taking them to court, which costs money the smaller party can't afford. you can send a cease and desist letter to whoever the hell you like, for whatever reason. 9/10 ip infringement cases are settled not by the law, but financial bullying.

    the rich can literally steal pieces from artists and be fine because the artist can't afford to take them to court.
     
    • Like Like x 5
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.