bobby skullface probably prefers statues and non-transforming figures cause he seems to break everything he sets his hands on. guy is basically a professional transformers collector and still can't transform stuff right.

 

Agree.

 

It’s two seperate arguments: “legal vs illegal” is not always synonymous with “moral vs immoral”. That’s the argument many use for pirating movies or copying products. The issue is that legal/illegal is codified and written down. Moral/immoral is generally in the eye of the beholder. Many horrible acts have been done in the name of the greater good. What I may find distasteful and wrong, another may find acceptable or even necessary.

 

So is this the BSF thread?

 

Nah. That’s sophistry. IP theft is theft just as much as engineering design theft is. A 3P is competing and harmful just as much as a KO. Does anyone genuinely think that MS-01, TE-01 and Mp-44 weren’t competing with each other?
Stealing engineering is not somehow worse than only stealing the look.
The team at Hasbro and Takara have invested billions of dollars over decades to build up the value of Optimus Prime as a character. Creating your own version of Optimus Prime is leveraging off that investment.
Why is the work of an MP toy engineer somehow sacrosanct while the creative efforts of Bob Budiansky who actually built the world, stories and characters of Transformers free for anyone to steal?

 

No, you just want to have it both ways. There's always one that does. "I want to feel okay about buying products that rip off someone else's physical product, so I'm going to point fingers at original products that homage characters from a cartoon 30+ years ago and claim they're just as bad." Sure, bud. Whatever helps you sleep at night.  

 

Agreed.
Otherwise Core Star wouldn’t have had to disappear for a while.

 

No, even that cherry-picked example was simply due to poor timing, competing directly with Takara. It's kind of common sense to not poke a sleeping bear. Zeta done effed up and got slapped for it. Meanwhile, all other 3P MP figures continue on without issue as they have for years. What happened to Core Star is not at all representative of the norm.

 

No. I’ve said multiple times that KO and 3P are equally bad. I don’t try to justify one or the other. I acknowledge that by buying either I’m doing something shady. You’re the only one making convoluted arguments to try and justify your own needs and desires.
You’ve literally just said that the work of an engineer at Takara last year is more worthwhile than the work of a creative artist at Hasbro 30 years ago. And that attitude is frankly pretty despicable.
Ripping off someone else’s physical Product is wrong. Ripping off someone else’s design is wrong. 2 years or 30 years. Wrong is wrong. Accept that and do it anyway if you want. But don’t climb on a high horse and pretend that you’re somehow morally in the right by supporting the theft of HasTaks creative work.

 

Can we compare the TF situation being discussed here to any other products? Like cereals, movies, cars and their parts, tools, etc?

 

Because it’s unlicensed.
Which makes it theft.
Thanks for helping us with our argument.

 

Right, you need them to be equally bad in order to feel better about your decisions, but that's only your subjective opinion. The very reason 3P isn't as frowned upon or cracked down on the way knock-offs are is because they simply are not equally harmful.

 

Superheroes. Batman. DC owns the rights to the character. I can buy a Batman toy from many legit stores but they are licensed from DC and the manufacturer pays a licence fee. I can also buy a knock-off Batman toy from a local discount store or off AliExpress. That’s a KO. Call it a 3P or a KO, it’s the same thing. Skullface paints Batman climbing a banana tree and sells it claiming it’s an original work. But he still stole the imagery and design of Batman. Someone designs a 3D printable statue of Batman and sells it on Facebook for $10. That’s also theft.

TF’s are kind of rare in that we try and pretend that a company who designs their own version of a toy is somehow doing something acceptable. If I design and produce a Batman statue that’s standing in a unique pose and has different proportions from other Batman statues, but is still clearly Batman... is that somehow okay? Of course not.
If I create a unique character Nite Owl, who’s clearly not BatMan then I’m fine. And that’s exactly what Alan Moore did with Watchmen.

 

No. Again, blatantly false and again, it’s YOUmaking facile arguments to justify you’re habits. You want it to be okay to steal someone’s IP. Its. Not. 3P and KO in any other industry are synonymous. Making Batman a 400 pound Asian woman does not excuse the fact that it’s Batman. Batman is a licenced IP. So is transformers. There is no argument you can make that will somehow make stealing
Someone else’s creative work legit.
Additionally you’re confusing subjective with objective. The subjective opinion here is your attempts to justify 3P through some nebulous argument that it’s okay because it’s unique engineering. The objective opinion is that Optimus Prime is Optimus Prime. Making an Optimus Prime toy without Hasbros licence is theft. That is objective. They may not choose to enforce that but it doesn’t somehow make it right.

 

To add to this:
Make a Batman and try selling it- and watch WB come down on you like a hammer.

 

How is ip theft on par with engineering theft.
Someone thought up an idea, and may have also designed something to go along with it.
Someone took their time to make one specific item.
The law isn't always the moral high ground.
You can steal someone's invention and patent it before them, is it wrong, yes, is it legal, yes.
Ideas in the public domain are no different from those protected by the law, and yet those proctected by law are above those in the public domain in terms of moral worth ?

 

You're arguing against a strawman. I've never stated anything of the sort. I've pointed out the fallacy of claiming that a 3P producing an homage of a character in the absence of a similar 1P product existing is somehow equally as damaging as someone stealing a physical product and producing copies of it to sell themselves. It's a simple concept that even a passing exposure to economics would inform you, though you clearly will do anything to avoid acknowledging the truthfulness of it. Fortunately, you and bellpeppers circlejerking each other doesn't change reality.

 

if bob budiansky or floro dery were making money off every transformer sold i'd probably care about the infringement of IP law, but as it is hasbro is a massive conglomerate that has merged and turned over staff seven thousand times since the transformers were made. IP law these days exists to protect monopolizing corporations, and more often than not seeks to take control away from the actual creators.

 

Now you’re conflating legality with morality. They are two seperate things. Also, You’re now arguing that physical engineering is inherently more valuable than intellectual concepts. I think the software industry may have some thoughts on that one.

 

Just wanted to say I agree with all your points. I too buy 3P products and I acknowledge I am doing something shady.

 

Is it legitimate to steal someone’s IP? Yes or no. Simple question.
And you actually agree with me. You know it’s wrong, you just think it’s somehow less wrong because “engineering” and “30 year old cartoon”. It’s still wrong. You’re just trying to blur the line and make it acceptable because you believe it’s less wrong.