Says who? Because others couldn't figure it out like MMC did?

Just because it's the norm doesn't mean it's automatically accepted.

Not until an integrated set is released, no.

 

To be fair, and to me, personally of course:

MMC is the reason WHY we should have parts forming. And again, I want to make this clear that this is just my opinion: but their Bruticus looks terrible.

Hell, even they were like “uh.... maybe we’ll give him a parts forming upgrade set pair of shoes after all...”

And how weird is it that these robots now have feet and hands shoved inside of their bodies. Please tell me how this doesn’t comprise anything?

They’re also ALL TOO SMALL*. The combined mode is also too small*.

FT’s Menasor will be about Constructors height, yes? And XTB’s. Logic dictates FT’s Constucticons will be around the same height as their Menasor... which again is around the same height as constructor.


Annnnnnd then we have MMC’s. Whomp whomp.





*my opinion and my preference on the XTB/TW/FT/Zeta combined mode sizes

 

I would say it’s widely accepted because it’s how Fans Toys, DX9, XTB, TW and Zeta have all decided to create combiners.

On the other side there’s MMC. They seem to have a second combiner coming but weighing that against all future combiners from every other third party, it’s a blowout.

Also, how do you create an all in one Menasor? Does he have skinny car-only legs, big blocks under the cars for legs or is the central bot the size of Menasor and the other bots just tab on?

 

I'm going with X-Transbots stunticons, so when they are uncombined, they'll have a base to interact with instead of a loose trailer or pants in a box.

For the other combiner teams, there should be an intermediate solution, like Onslaught/Hotspot being MP10 sized bots that turn into cabs, and the pants becoming the trailers. For Superion, pants turning into whatever.

 

Pantsformers suck.

 

How long before one of them figures out the 3rd way to do it? Release all the bots separate for people who want them. Just bot to alt mode, sacrifice nothing for combine mode. Also release a one piece combined figure. That would solve many issues and allow for so many more display options. I would love to display the whole team standing in front of the combiner, without having to pay for two full sets of figures

 

It might be good for accuracy, but it does defeat the point of a combiner as a concept when the figures don't actually combine. Plus, a lot of appeal in most combiner team characters comes from the fact that they're part of their respective combiner. Take that away, and there's a lot of toys who probably won't sell since the character they represent is not very interesting on their own. Except maybe in the case of the Stunticons (who are all crazy in their own, fun way), the Constructions (since they enjoy a lot of exposure from being the first), and First Aid (for his role in MtMtE).

 

I mock you with my monkey pants.
 

 

So many people are already fine with combiners that don't combine though. The "overalls" are a hub add-on piece so most of these combiners never actually combine anyway. You could try and keep the scale right for each bot this way, and the combiner could have the proper proportions everyone always wants. Think how stable a big single piece combiner could be, and how all the parts would actually stay on and not get in the way. If Hasbro and 3rd party can do solid large scale bots like Omega, why not have a solid large piece combiner. It would also be easier to make a scale and stick to it that way. All your bots in scale with each other and with the combiner. You wouldn't have the Super thin Dx9 Atilla, or Capones cab. Generation Toy did a great job with Devastator as pretty much all inclusive, but some people want cartoon accuracy. Imagine a inscale Devastator but built with the detail and articulation of 3A's Prime.

 

The same thing was asked about an integrated Bruticus at one point or another.

Someone will figure it out. That's their job. Mine is to buy it.

Lastly, "accepted" is such a loaded term. Some of you have merely settled.

 

I buy combiners just for combiner form so if pants make them look better and sturdier I’m all for it

The original g1 devastator which was the first ever combiner and I believe the only first series combiner actually had the pants forming Elements

So these are true to G1 combiner engineering and I am a fan

 

G1 engineering belongs in the 80's. With 30 years of advancement, we should be able to do better.

I agree. That being said, I can accept combiners that do have various extra bits. But, I prefer if the extra bits are able to do something when not in combined mode. For instance, Warbotrons's Bruticus had the waist piece as Onslaught's trailer. To me, any part that is exclusively for combined mode that does nothing else means the designers failed. I know various Menasor figures do this, but to me, the worst offender is Zeta's Superion. Almost all of the combined mode torso is just a chunk of junk that does nothing when it isn't the combined mode torso. This is just lazy, sloppy engineering. At least make it turn into a base, or some kind of tank, or a Macross style booster pack for Silverbolt, or something.

I think, like anything, pantsforming combiners can be executed well, or handled sloppily.

 

Or since they are 3rd party and can do whatever they want, make it a bot of their own design for the team. This way they put their own unique stamp on it and create something original at the same time. Instead of headmasters they can call them hubmasters

 

Make a good figure first and foremost, then make the pants do something. Have them be a flightstand plateform for your figures.

 

Dislike the pants forming. Lazy design.

 

And Zeta are abandoning that idea...

Because companies realized that a good amount of fans would settle for less in the same price range as non pantsforming combiners.

And that's like not wanting smartphones, because there are selling phones like the original ones with rotary dials. Nothing wrong with that, but to me, that is a "strange" excuse for not having something better.

 

I’ve yet to see a decent MP scale Combiner that doesn’t pants form so it’s kind of hard to say.
To me, MMC’s looks like ass. I have no idea if that’s entirely due to their insistence on the all-in-one gimmick or if they deliberately designed them to look that way but it looks way more Titans Returns boxiness than sleek MP styling.

But hey, show me an MP quality combiner that actually fits into an MP collection with accurate styling and scale, and if it does it without pants then that’s cool. But so far nothing even comes close.
YMMV.

 

Modern engineering isn’t wizardry. All-in-one is a gimmick that comes at a cost. Like MP44’s voice box backpack or MP Hound’s visor that leaves a gap in his head. The cost is paid in compromises to the individual bots, combiner size, team size (1 huge torso bot with 4 children) or stability.

It can be done, but having to fit all kinds of extra hands and bits inside each character is going to weaken one or more of the modes.

I want the best possible individual robots that combine into the best possible combiner with the least amount of sacrifices. Sometimes (depending on the team) that might work well as an all-in-one but it will always work well and give the developers more leeway to nail the important stuff with a nice pair of pants!

 

If you expect Bruticus to look exactly like this (which is fine if you do)...


...then sure, MMC's doesn't look like that.

But MMC's (and even the Combiner Wars one, and to some extent the Iron Factory one) do look like this:



Or this:



I guess what I'm getting at is that I understand if a toy/OX look isn't up your alley, but I don't think "looks like ass" is far when it's accurate to the source material, just not your preferred source material.

Please tell me how it does? Can't comment on Brawl or Blast Off, but for Swindle his own feet and heels tab together and extend a bit to make Bruticus' foot. For Vortex you see something like an upside down L from the hand itself and the first knuckle of the fingers on the inside of his legs, but a flap covers most of the fingers. You could just pretend it's mechanical detail; just my opinion, but it's far less distracting than all the flaps and panels just dangling off Zeta's. And despite having halves of hands stuffed into his legs he's still got ankle rockers. The only one I can honestly say really suffers for the all-in-one gimmick is Onslaught. His torso is too long and too rectangular, and his head is a little too small.

Anyway, I'm not saying that you or anyone else who doesn't like it should. I'm not trying to change your mind. If you think it's too small or too OX-y or whatever then ok, it's not for you. But I do think the pro-pantsforming crowd is a little quick to dismiss it as compromised by the all-in-one gimmick when, as individuals at the very least, two out of three are MUCH better than Zeta's and not particularly compromised at all.

 

I like transformers for clever enginer

except zeta's individual Bruticus bots, alts and combined mode all are inaccurate so pants are only solving scale.