LMAO. No.

The relationship is that Takara witnessed people paying a high price for 3P and decided they would price gouge because people were paying that high price for a 3P figure, but then Takara got greedy because "it's an official product and people will pay more for it."

Which is true, but with the QC issues that people are getting lately, more buyers are opening their eyes.

 

Whenever it's something I want. In all seriousness though, Takara can stick their prices up their ass. They've been taking advantage of the faithful; those who HAVE to buy official regardless the cost. Sure there's R&D and all the rest of the investment that goes into it all, but $400+ for MP44 is a pisstake. Likewise $150+ for Hound.

 

Just posting this pic, 'cause it makes me laugh.

 

KO got me into purchasing Takara MP’s.
Takara got me out of Takara MP’s and back into KO’s.

 

Exactly, some of us do have a price cap for a single figure, and for me it is around $180 (and only a few characters meet the criteria), which means the official Takara MP-36 is out of the question. So for me, it was a KO or nothing, Takara did not miss out on a sale, they failed to meet my idea of a fair price, and let's be honest, not all of us are into raking up debt to buy toys, some of us have wives and kids to consider. So yeah, I'm thankful for KO's and if Takara cannot compete price wise, maybe they should just bow out while FT and XTB take over, it's difficult to gauge whether or not Takara even makes an effort to compete honestly. Just to be clear, I do not hate or spite Takara, without them, we wouldn't have Third Party and KO Masterpiece, would still be in the CHUG age. Further Takara has put out so many MP's that still hold up well, despite the problematic releases. Finally personally glad to see Takara go more in the direction of toon accuracy, but I understand the anger of people who bought say the carbots over the years and Takara decides to do + anime repaints years later when it should have been an option from the start considering how little is changed. I would be upset too, except I came into this hobby late, but if it continues for years and years, I will surely be able to relate by firsthand experience in the future, just have to accept and decide on a figure by figure basis whether it's worth it personally.

 

The Harmful Effects of Counterfeit Goods – Athens State University

 

That paper doesn’t really adequately explain the relationship between toy sellers cost and KOs. Also Masterpiece figures are made for a Japanese market not American so it’s not really relevant, especially with regards to manufacturing.

This seems to be more about counterfeit goods from American brands and medication. I see that it also has some sources for what it is stating but I don’t see a lot of hard data being quoted.

 

This doesn't prove anything. There's not even any evidence that KO Transformers have any affect on the Japanese market or their employment.

 

Always Save and Best Choice, have to be the kings of KO...oh and let's not forget Amazonbasics. I wonder if my doctor has prescribed KO medications since several of them I cannot afford the main brand at retail price, and then there is the dilemma of medications not being optional. While we're at it, I cannot help but wonder if KO medications are on the government Medicaid approved medicine lists. Admittedly is not something I've looked into, because honestly, I just want my medication when I am in need of a refill. Without researching data, statistics, etc. I suspect the buying/selling of counterfeit goods in America has substantially increased over the past decade. The main problem with this rests with sellers marketing the counterfeit as the genuine product, not the goods themselves. Maybe I should google "The Helpful Effects of Counterfit Goods", goodness knows there are two sides to every story.

 

That's not exactly relevant because 3rd party and KO's are wholly different.

 

Its justified when takara charges:
250 for mp36
220 for mp41
320 for mp 43
440 for mp44

 

One of the people in the image needs to be a robot and it’ll work

 

There's no real such thing as a KO medication though. Every medicine has a patent. The patent just expires and then the generic medication is formed.

And, most medication patent holders will actually wait for their own patent to expire and then create and sell the generic.

And sometimes they'll create the generic, but use the original medication anyway. Symbicort is a good example of this. You buy the generic, but it doesn't say Symbicort on the box, yet the inhaler inside is a Symbicort brand name.

But, it's all legal because they own said patent. And so, it isn't really relevant to this convo, unless HasTak started making 3p figures of course.

 

The only KOs I own are the Takara MP cassettes. When I was planning to buy them, NIB versions were around 100 for each box of 2, with used copies going for around 80 per box of two. In no world would I ever pay those prices for those cassettes, especially after watching several reviews of the real ones that pointed out how poorly they were made. But the knock offs were 20 dollars a box. In that case I felt ok about buying them. But all of my other figures are the real thing, I can afford them and I feel ok about it. However, there may come a time when I would prefer a knock off version to something that costs around 500 or more at this point that would only ever end up in my collection if I bought a knock off.

I do think KOs are shady business and would largely prefer to avoid them. But I can’t help but wonder, even on the official releases, who exactly it is that manages to get a child-sized hand into this area or that area to turn a screw that only a tiny child-sized hand can turn.

 

When you want something.

 

Justified

 

Not really.

 

Honestly..I think asking that question is just loaded..It's either prelude to attempting to justify why you are entitled to have something for other than what the makers of a product are offering..or a prelude to bemoaning how people who are making an "immoral decision that ruins Christmas" by buying knockoffs.

There is a previous comment (from caudex, since it's literally right on top of my posting box) That says " Regarding the moral complexity of the matter, consider that a company's copyright can last no longer than 120 years, so with HasTak having Transformers© for only another 80 years max, KOs could reasonably be considered early-release post-copyright production runs; therefore, completely legitimate, and justified like homicide yo." that encapsulates what is going on here .
(One small after edit: It's more something I'd consider as a Dollar Store ripoff of an existing item. Like if I copied an old Snake Eyes toy, painted it polka dot and sold it for 10 dollars cheaper a few months after someone else did the leg work. Call that whatever you want , I call that stealing. Moral, or not, it's stealing. I'm not sure I'd call a few months after quite enough time to go beyond even the most limited copyright run. Your mileage may vary.

Yes, copyright laws are nonsensical, and yes, I'd love to see them change into something more akin to not outlasting the life of the original content creator..and to limiting how we view business and corporations as individuals..mostly for purposes of both ensuring the inventor/artist/creator/choose your own adventure gets credit and recompense..and is able to set aside some of that for their children/family if they so choose as well as encouraging innovation within a reasonable time frame. For me, that's just common sense , and it's just a net benefit to society as a whole..and is how things worked for a majority of human history up until the 1900s when we see a shift in how we legislate copyright laws. We're innovators and inventors if we're human.

However, that's not what showing a picture of two identical sideswipes is showing to me. What that is showing me is one person creating an item..and then another person creating the same item and selling it cheaper. And , in a world of easier mass production, I can't even make the argument I might make in the case of old school high quality art forgery (to take one example) and say that in both cases each person making the object in question has a level of skill, and that there might be value in that thing because of that. This situation is less someone painstakingly recreating the Mona Lisa through hard work and genuine talent and more someone photo copying the same on a really good printer. Your mileage may vary, but if that led to the original creator losing out some of the value they might have otherwise obtained...I can't see it as anything other than entitlement on our end for supporting. We can package it however we want to make it sound nicer to ourselves, and others...and I'm not really telling people to stop, or to do it..but let's be honest to ourselves at least.

There's also a common statement that runs along the lines .."I'm not going to feel sorry for a billion dollar company that isn't selling an item for the price I feel {without being aware of costs involved} I should be getting it for, so screw them!" . And that's also fine. However, I wouldn't ask anyone to feel sorry for Habsro, or Takara, or Random Giant Corporation number 23. I'd just say "Do what you have to do, it's your wallet, your choice. But be aware that at a certain point, the costs for the creator become enough that they say..'let's not do this. It's not worth it.' " At that point, we don't suddenly start getting things cheaper, or continue to get things. Not in this day and age. We just stop getting things. And KO companies don't have the profit, or skill, to engineer these things from scratch. They're copying a thing, without innovation, and without meaningful change. Making something bigger isn't innovation, I can do that with a photo and basic computer. Changing the color of optimus prime and calling him Bob the Gunwielding Garbageman isn't innovating. Tightening a joint, or fixing a paint job isn't innovating..it's just..exactly that. It's outright theft. I can't really view it logically as anything other than that. And we look the other way, and justify it however we like because we want what we want. The mitigating argument that is made , and validly supported in large part, by saying how downloading a song, or such has actually led to a net positive for the artists themselves while circumventing music companies..can't be made here. There is no net positive for the makers originally..just the people who are stealing an item and the people who are letting it happen.

There is a second, and related question in regards to Third Party. I see a lot of equating of 3rd party and KOs..and the call of IP theft, etc. And legally, I would actually like to see this go through the courts, and there may be a reason why it hasn't. This is where we get to the innovation part, and how I would love to see our notion of copyright infringement be revolutionized. And also where I think we COULD see a net positive in some type of symbiotic relationship between all parties. There's an area which is less grey, and more clear cut than in my less honest moments I like to pretend that it's otherwise..but..if Hasbro, or Takara, etc...did decide to make an actual fuss about 3rd party, it's likely that they would win in court, both because of the weight of their money and because it's strictly speaking, stealing an idea. There is a difference, however, in completely retooling something, or engineering an object in a novel way to obtain a similar result. If I take , to give perhaps a better example of what Caudex was doing (in my not so humble opinion) and put Fans Toys Willis or Make Toys Gun Dog besides Takara's Hound. All three are Hound. None of them are the same. Each one takes a different--and unique in large part--novel approach to getting to the same place, or idea. Is that stealing? Legally speaking, it probably is..but it's also innovative where a KO is not. It's also adding something genuinely different beyond..."omg it's bigger!" The look, the feel, the pizazz..it's all different. The mileage may vary, but I see a difference there in what was done. Rather than straight up copying the Mona lisa, we see a change in the complexion of the picture itself. Is this right? Wrong? I don't know..yes,. no..we'll all come to our own conclusions..I'm just trying to boil it down to what I feel is actually happening.

I've rambled enough, and apologize if this came off too harsh, or not harsh enough..I didn't want to come down on anyone for making the decisions they make, as I'm not in their shoes. But, as Dennis Miller always said, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

I agree here, as a post edit to my last message. I might say that they aren't strictly the same, but at the core..the idea between 3rd Party and KOs still remains the same, even if the result to me ends up different. And legally speaking, there isn't a difference currently.

 

Um, wtf was that article? I thought I was getting into someone’s research paper, a hypothesis and what they discovered, but no, just someone rambling up a list of possible effects?!?