Yup.
Ko, UL3P all rip off other people.

And I have some wonderful pieces that illustrate that point.

 

So, basically what you are are saying is buying KO’s in unacceptable under ANY circumstance, unless you see a flaw in the design, or you have an issue of the quality of the figure. That’s very selective rationalization on your part, and anyone could use that justification to purchase anything. It’s all one’s perception.

 

Well, people in America buy land all the time despite the ethical problems in how the land was obtained.

The circumstances in my American land example, either never cross people’s minds (so, you’re not alone), or if they do, they come up with some type of reasoning to justify it. (e.g. “it’s been X amount of time,” or “my circumstances only allow me certain options,” or other types of responses that can parallel to reasons people give for KOs).


But to those staunch defenders of HasTak:
Props to those of you that haven’t succumbed to the defamation of the entities & subsidiaries of takaratomy, “Hail Hasbro!!”
As reward, you may treat yourselves to discounts in the deformation line of transforrr...errr converting robots, vehicles, etc. These treats might not only be a better value, but they may even improve on the engineering, aesthetics, size and/or design of what we initially gave you!
*insert fine print warning about the possibilities of lead paint, sharp accessories, sharp panels/objects on figure itself, firing parts, coronavirus, plastic crack addiction to wanting more,sooner, etc.

 

To be clear, what I am saying is that KO is not "justified" by the official definition. There is very specific difference to the meaning of "justification: being lawful, righteous, or correct" and "rationalization: attempting to explain and action or behavior". The original post was asking about "justification" and therefore the "lawfulness/righteousness" of KO. This is also an opened forum for debate. I do appologize if anyone feels I am "attacking" them. I don't feel that I am. I am voicing my opinion, however judgmental or hypocritical it may come across and I stand by everything I have said and how I have said it.

So,... "rationalization", yes. "justification", no.

My "rationalization" is not "very selective" as you have put, implying that it is a sliding scale, but is in fact very specific. You even point out 2 of my main 3 criteria for "rationalization" that I have mentioned in previous posts. Very specific of you.   And, no, I am not "justified, lawful or righteous" in any way in the very rare and very specific situations I have "reason" to go KO. Major (I would say "catastrophic") flaw or some other "deal breaker" (this may be poor materials or half assed paint just as an example. As TT has been doing lately) and poor QC (also, as TT has been doing lately). The third rational is that there MUST be an alternative that fixes/addresses/improves the issue. Buying KO when the official is perfectly fine is not in my moral flexibility playbook. Nor is KO simply for price. If it is expensive, I save up, take on freelance or track down a better deal. If I deem it too expensive or not worth it, I pass. As I have done with the last few MP's. Something I took with much gravity as I have been a MP collector since 2004 (since 2001 if you count Binaltech which MP-1 was original part of) and I have every release except Starsaber and Beast Wars... Until now. Skipping Bumble v2 and Hound and probably skipping everything else from now on. I stand by my judgment, yes, I am being judgmental, that price for price sake is not a "justification" OR a fair "rational". That is just being a self righteous, entitled brat. Sure it is nice to get a good deal and I'm going to spend the time to get the best price I can. But not KO. And I don't think others should either. But people are going to do whatever they want. This is just a discussion/debate. If I can swing someone, that yea for me.

I have said it before. I take issue with the KO for KO sake culture, the "I'll wait for the KO" and "<insert company name here> is a billion dollar company so it's ok (robin hood mentality)" attitude that is plaguing the hobby and just seems to be growing. I can certainly "understand" why this movement is growing as prices of official product are skyrocketing due to cost increases of materials (plastic is going through the roof and is affecting my job too), Child safety testing, the cost breakdown of assembly operations and paint decos (the dam factory does everything it can to screw us) and, in the case of MP, the fanbase demand for more complex designs (that damn "toon" for "toon" sake aesthetic is a pain in the ass and IS making everything more complicated). I can "understand" but I still dont think it is "justified" to go KO for KO sake. If a company F'ed up with their product, as TT has done with the last few MP releases, AND there is an alternative that is improved, than I may consider. They had their chance. However, the vast majority of the time, KO is NOT an improvement (which does involve at least SOME work on the KOer part) and is merely plagiarizing (like making a photocopy vs drawing something by hand. A pale shadow of the original) someone else's work, claiming it to be their own with the intent to deceive the market. Even when a KO is an improvement, it is STILL plagiarism, but I may or may not be able to find a "rational" for it (example: Improvements). I stand by that. I avoid supporting KO whenever possible and am NEVER "justified: lawful or righteous" if I do so. I may "rationalize: bend my morals to find a reason" when the official gives me no other choice under my very specific criteria and I am a hypocrite that way.

 

I like buying KOs because people on these forums lose their goddamn shit over it.

 

I'm surprised by how many people are in agreement with KOs being cool.
But I'm not surprised by the text walls written here

 

A lot of people just don’t care for the legality of it all. People just want cool toys man.

 

When are KO's justified?

When I want the original, but it's too small, too expensive, and too hard to find.

 

*thumb up* Well said, sums it up, works for me. Worse than the legality to me is the guilt mongering behind the wall of legality. It's like some folks do not consider the assumptions involved with the concept of guilt, and what is implied. In the context of this thread guilt is already assumed, therefore justification is needed, but I think not. Many many reasons have been laid out throughout this thread, many if not most have validity and or understandable and all good to me. This is like do I or should I feel guilty for receiving a traffic ticket in an area where the speed limit is constantly changing, pissed of is more like it, knowing I'm not one to go out of my way to drive excessively fast for the sake of driving over the speed limit rolling the dice with whether or not I get caught, those days are long over, lessons learned. *grin*

 

the first thing that comes to mind is "when you can't find the original to buy", but I feel the real reason is "when I feel like buying one"

 

Semantic debates aside, if what you're really asking is, "When do you personally feel willing to buy a KO?" for myself the answer is: a) when I already own the official product but really want it in a different scale, b) when the official product is unacceptable from a QC or design standpoint and the KO qualitatively improves on and remedies those issues, and at a substantially lower price, and/or c) when the official product is no longer available at all (or at anything remotely approaching a reasonable price e.g. the only way to get it is via an ebay ransom or insanely high markup lol.)

That's pretty much it for me, though. I won't do it solely out of pricing convenience without those other factors generally speaking and will always at least make a reasonable attempt to get the official product if I can.

And I don't care whatsoever what anyone's opinion of me for good or ill with respect to any of the above is either for the record.

 

Imma buy even MORE knockoffs.

 

I’d like a number of accessories KO’ed. Would that be frowned upon?

 

Cheap tyres are generally KO’s...

 

since I do not have any moral ground on the ethics of toy buying, if they are a better price and of higher quality than the original release, that will warrant a ko purchase for me.

think the best example so far were the mp megs kos. several upgraded the figure at a pricepoint that was a fraction of the originals cost. thank you may I please have another.

 

I started MP collecting with the ko carbots because that's what i could afford. I could get three ko for almost the price of one Takara. But when I could eventually afford it I switched over to Takara/3P

 

NEVER. There is a direct relationship in the rise of Knock off sales and the increase in Takara’s pricing. The end result will be Takara deciding to give up on the line due to poor sales due to rising prices. So the cheap collector that is waiting to get that next Takara KO is directly causing the death of the line.

 

...what

 

Could you please give evidence of this direct relationship of the rise of knockoffs and Takara’s recent price increase, when ko’s have been around for years. I am skeptical that people who choose to buy the knockoff, who would never pay the outrageous price tag for say, MP Beastwars Megatron are affecting Hasbro bottom line.

 

I’m going to buy even more KO’s just to spite you.

Have you ever considered Takara and Hasbro, corporate entities, just want to get more money out of you?

(it’s hilarious people still think this.)