For the foreseeable future; Transformers-comics will be awful

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by FelixORST, Nov 26, 2019.

  1. Focksbot

    Focksbot Skeleton Detective

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    Just want to point out: the 'chap' you're quoting as eloquent here is the same chap you ordered to leave the thread a page ago.

    I didn't call you a homophobe. I was using "I hate gay robots" as a shorthand for the kind of repulsion you're expressing here. You hate the idea of the robots having any kind of proxy for human sexuality or romantic tenderness. How much that is to do with any general unease you have around atypical human sexualities is a matter for you to figure out for yourself.

    For the record, romantic relationships in fiction isn't my thing either. I never go seeking them, and have never marked a story down for lacking them. I just think it's an extreme reaction to loathe them as much as you apparently do, and to base your entire assessment of a book's quality on whether or not it goes into this territory.
     
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  2. Rob

    Rob Prowl Fan

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    So a couple things

    First off that is not a straw man argument it’s a piece of evidence to the contrary . If we accept understand the fundamentals of a economics (either dogmatically or casually) the desire of goods and services are measured based on sales, IDW seems to consider (thanks to @TranslucentBag ‘s analysis) averaging 10k sales is success for IDW. This can Be concluded based on IDW’s willingness to remain with a comic’s format and not relaunch or change strategies.

    Second, you can measure quality, albeit imperfectly based on using wisdom of the crowds with weights placed on professional reviewers (as generously demonstrated by the reference provided by @ismaeel-kamal).

    Third point, you are using anecdotes (the banana story) and what could be perceived as a condescending tone by criticizing translucentbag for “loving graphs”, which may or may not have been your intention. Nevertheless the former (the banana anecdote) is not really enough to put you in a position to then go and criticize translucentbag’s data and analysis; as he did far more work to support his/her argument, using data and all. As for the latter (the negative tone) if unintentional it makes you come off as ill spirited which would be a shame.

    If intentional then it is designed (whether you are aware of it or not) to redirect the attention away from your argument and towards translucentbag to defend his position, which is a sign that you do not have a strong defense of your argument. If you are in fact coming with bad faith and intentionally using a condescending tone to offset the argument, this strategy can be identified and off set by someone pointing out the strategy (which I just did). If that was your intent then you will continue with this strategy (offensive with a negative tone which comes off more as a pseudo intellectualism). if it is not your intention, which I hope it’s not, then the discussion should course correct and we will continue to a more constructive discussion.
     
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  3. SuperTitanHans

    SuperTitanHans Upgraded

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    D2DC6C46-709A-4FD6-A20C-FE402AE0866A.jpeg

    If you don’t like them, don’t read them. Find something else to do with your time. End of story.
     
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  4. TheLastBlade

    TheLastBlade Well-Known Member

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    IDW’s wokeness is already catching up to them. Any company that handles transformers comics is destined to end up worse than bayverse optimus’ victims.
     
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  5. FelixORST

    FelixORST Active Member

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    Yes, it was an eloquent quote. Why can't I acknowledge that you wrote something good? I don't live in a black and white world, like you seem to do.

    Now, you and I both know that "me ordering you" isn't true. You try to make it sound like I bossed you around, when in actuality I told you this:

    "If you have nothing to contribute with, then, please, kindly disengage from this thread."

    And it was in response to you saying:

    "So ... this is yet another stealth "I hate gay robots" thread, albeit one which some people are good-naturedly engaging with."

    Now, what we all can see from this exchange is that you immediately tried to label it as a "I hate gay robots"-thread, which you later tried to backtrack from. As I response to this, I told you, kindly, that you should refrain from commenting if you got nothing to contribute with. I also said please.

    Trying to label it as a "I hate gay robots"-thread is hardly constructive, especially when nothing points to that being the case here. Don't ruin a perfectly decent discussion just because you like the TF-comics. That is fine. You are allowed to like them, but you crossed the line when you tried and still are trying to smear me. I kindly ask you to stop. Intellectual dishonesty does not suit you.


    You did.

    I don't know what you mean by that, because I haven't said anything of the like in this thread. However, a little bird told me that you have been PMing about me. It's cute and flattering.

    If you fail to make the obvious distinction between selling something and something being of quality, then that's on you.

    This beautiful sentence "You can't really get data for whether a comics is awful or not, as it's a qualitative assessment" ended this off-topic post from the get-go.

    This is severely off-topic and it is obvious you are trying to be provocative.

    Now, I suggest you read the rules stated herein TFW2005 Rules.

    I also reported your post. It does not suit a fellow member to be both rude and provocative by trolling.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2019
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  6. Prime time 101

    Prime time 101 Well-Known Member

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    Ah, the good ol’ If you don’t like don’t watch argument, classic
     
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  7. FelixORST

    FelixORST Active Member

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    Posts like that cause unnecessary drama and it is evident he is doing it bad faith. I wish people weren't so rude and provocative. Why can't we all get along?

    I do believe that their "wokeness" is the primary driver of the comics' fall in quality, making them subpar when it comes to storytelling, among other things. Drinking too much of that Kool-Aid can be debilitating.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2019
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  8. TranslucentBag

    TranslucentBag Definitively "Graph Guy"

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    To further clarify my position, I wanted to state that I'm not trying to argue whether Transformers: Ongoing is objectively well written or not. Nor am I trying to argue for or against the OP's subjective opinion of the book being "awful." They are of course free to feel however they want about the story. I am pointing out that their opinion appears to lie in the minority of those who tend to buy IDW Transformers comic books when you actually look at the order numbers. Thus the current series, in the mind of the customers, seems to be much better than OP presents here.

    Secondly I wanted to introduce the data to argue against and attempt to minimize the insistence that almost inevitably arises in threads like this, namely the: "This crappy storytelling, characterization, plot pacing, gay robots, bad art, paper quality, chili-dog that gave me gas while reading, etc will end the comic and destroy the publisher" narrative. I've seen enough of the boards to know how quickly this can develop, and I find it frustrating when folks argue from the "well my three friends and I hate it, so it's obviously failing" mentality. Using actual data works to broaden the discussion and give some sort of perspective on how the book is actually performing.
     
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  9. TheLastBlade

    TheLastBlade Well-Known Member

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    Well, if IDW’s readerbase is anything to go by.....
     
  10. Rob

    Rob Prowl Fan

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    so bad will discussion and weak argument? Okay



    :lol ! And now begins the continued deflection and condescending tone, all to avoid a defense of their own position.
    For what it’s worth I think you are being thoughtful and robust in your data and analysis. I wouldn’t waste your time defending your position then you already have.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
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  11. Grimlock528

    Grimlock528 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think it suffers for being “woke”. I think it suffers for being flat out boring.
     
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  12. Rob

    Rob Prowl Fan

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    So I can see this perspective of it being slow, but I am okay with it. After Unicron’s action packed finale of IDW 1.0 I am in no rush and don’t mind taking my time with a slow burn.
     
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  13. Grimlock528

    Grimlock528 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve done slow burns. I enjoy them. But for me, this isn’t even that. It’s....just boring.
     
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  14. Rob

    Rob Prowl Fan

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    I got you. Maybe it will be more entertaining for you in its entirety or maybe not, hopefully the former, but we won’t no till the run is wrapped up.
     
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  15. Grimlock528

    Grimlock528 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I mean it might be that I invested 13 years in IDW1 so it’s hard to really care about this. Or it can be the art. I do feel that (at least for me) the art can make or break any story no matter who is writing it or what the story entails.
    I’ve already dropped this series. First time since Marvel that I’m not buying Transformers. I dig it for those who enjoy it. We all have our reasons to like or dis like.
    I’ll continue to lurk here and maybe someday something else will come along that can bring me back in.
     
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  16. Rob

    Rob Prowl Fan

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    Well IDW1 is a hard act to follow so I don’t blame you. To me it’s the best Transformers continuity ever made.
     
  17. Focksbot

    Focksbot Skeleton Detective

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    I haven't backtracked. You seem to have created this thread in order to keep telling us how much you hate robots holding hands.

    Sorry, where did I call you a homophobe exactly?

    I really haven't. I haven't been PMing anyone about anything.
     
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  18. Rob

    Rob Prowl Fan

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    I don’t have a problem with romance or hand holding in Transformers. In fact I would argue that the inclusion of those elements broadened appeal to the brand and in my opinion I am sure it brought in way more people than it alienated.

    And for those it alienated, they can leave the franchise and come back when they mature a bit more or simply stay out, it’s their choice. Either way Transformers and the fandom would be better off.
     
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  19. TranslucentBag

    TranslucentBag Definitively "Graph Guy"

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    I think a lot of the problem is the pacing. I know it felt like there was significant filler in the first 7-8 issues. I said this somewhere else but I think the story would have benefited from being initially told from the POV of Sentinel Prime and the others who arrived with him. That way the reader is dropped into the middle of the chaos surrounding 2 murders and political disruption, and we have to figure out what is going on along with the characters. Everything gets fleshed out through investigations or portrayed as flashbacks.
    Indeed in hindsight, the entire Rubble storyline feels unnecessary—apart from being a narrative trope to supply the reader with background exposition.
     
  20. PlanckEpoch

    PlanckEpoch Red and black red and black

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    To be fair though, emotional attacent is at the CORE of war stories. I'm someone who has friends and interacts with people who've had combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. Many, many of these people live damaged lives, I won't sugar coat it. Battle is scary and terrifying. It asks you to methodically take the life of another thinking, conscious human being for hours a day, for the entirety of a 15 month deployment. NO ONE can do that for long. That's why vets come back damaged. That's why suicide rates for vets is so high.

    I've been told stories of kids dying of trauma from bomb amputated limbs, crying for their parents. Of friends being there one second and then not the next. I'm saying all of this because war is the best place to put raw, primal emotion to the forefront. What is war if not the breakdown of reasoning and a return to primal violence? Of anger and fury? War cannot be divorced from emotion.

    I don't think there's anything really homophobic taking place here but I do take issue with the statement of "silly trends.". I don't think I feel happy with the idea of my sexuality regarded as just a mere "silly trend". So I can see where people see the homophobia.
     
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