Does science fiction have to follow Gene Roddenberry's vision of technological discourse or can it reject the dominant societies vision of advancement?
For example if I wrote a story about ethnobotanical advancement within social upheaval of non-sustainable material practices in a future of environmental reconstruction, is it still scifi?

 

Yes, we know.

Nope, it's really not and the only reason why you would argue otherwise is to prolong this well past it's expiration date. Both of you.

 

Felgekarb.


You're not trying to wind anything down, you're trying to get the last word while simultaneously saying you're right. Worst of all, you are doing it solely for attention as you'd take it to PMs if you were only interested in proving @Refletor3 wrong. No, that's not good enough. You need EVERYONE to see that you've proven them wrong, and that you are the ultimate authority on all things TFs.

I had you on ignore for almost a year for this same exact garbage, but cleared out my ignore list to give everyone a chance from there to show they have something to contribute. 3 people thus far are already back on because they've proven me wrong in that respect. Are you going to prove me wrong as well?

 

The fight between these two reminds me of this

We’re Ultra Magnus.

 

What's this thread about again? Oh yah Megatron OP movie fight. IMO ultimately Megatron won by inflicting lethal damage to OP. While Megatron was severely damaged, it was Starscream that tossed Megatron into space. You could argue that Megatron fought dirty by taking advantage of weapons in his surroundings/exploiting Op's morals.

 

Op won the actual fight.

Who won the fight? OP vs Megatron '86 movie

What lethal damage Megatron did was all post-fight, the equivalent of Drago, after round 15 and the winner called, walking over to Rocky, knocking him out and then declaring victory.  

 

I'll agree that OP fought more of a clean fight but this was not regulated sporting event. Also, OP dealt the sever damage inflicted on Megatron after the fight was over as well.

 

Well, I imagine Op didn't take too kindly to being shot in the chest four times so what goes around...   Speaking of, like I said in my OP, Megatron got four straight kill shots off and Op *still* sent him packing even after that.

Op won the actual fight which is pretty much from "Megatron must be stopped...no matter the cost" to "Finish him off Prime!Do it now!" By that point, the fight was decided. Megatron started armed and ready to fight. By the end, he was weaponless and tossed aside like yesterday's paper.

After the fight is where Megatron did his lethal damage but again, that was not during the fight.

 

I disagree. Megratron was down but continued to fight on by exploiting OP's weakness(mercy) and using a discarded weapon to his advantage. If Megatron didn't pause to gloat(his weakness), he likely wouldn't have been knocked off the cliff.

 

Yet he was knocked off nonetheless. Bottom line he lost. Both the fight and by extension, the decepticons as well.

Even Unicron called Megatron out on it. "You exaggerate." Lol.

If we're going to play the "woulda/coulda/shoulda" Megatron is the luckiest Con alive. Hot Rod's stupidity kept him alive, Soundwave's loyalty kept him alive and Starscream's treachery by sheer chance brought him back new and improved thanx to Unicron.

Again, Optimus won.

Matter of fact, Op won twice as the Matrix he lived long enough to pass on hope with ultimately led to Megatron as Galvatron losing to Rodimus/Hot Rod. Even with a massively upgraded body, Megs/Galvy lost again.

 

If that’s the impression you got of me then I apologize

But I’m giving you my honest assessment, I never really saw a difference when it comes to the category of “fiction” between Star Wars and Star Trek

i suggested taking it to pms several times, and even sent him a few

I’m not sure he knows how to use them
And I have been trying to make my responses shorter so that it doesn’t annoy so many others,

And I really don’t know how to answer your last question

 

They both won, in the sense that they accomplished their goal.

Prime intended to stop Megatron, which he did.
Megatron intended to kill Optimus, and succeeded.

 

Prime died from his wounds. Megs lived on to become Galvatron.

Vote for Megatron.

 

In the case of star wars....ever since disney bought the rights to this....i somehow feel the 3 latest ones are not as good as the first 6.
But yet i fell it os still canonical when examining the contents of the 3 modern ones.

Dang it. Wish i could read it. Sounds interesting.

I agree. In terms of ideas. The evidence supports this. And intentions are not the same thing as the actual final result of things. It is clear that beast wars is not g1 animation. Blacharacchnia when calling waspinator insane for thinking he was shrapnel, said, auto bots and decepticons lived 3 centuries before them (thats 300 years before beast wars time line). Strong evidence of a continuation.

Now i really want to examine this!

 

To prime ultra:
Looks like this is not just my opinion. Evidence in the beast wars animation itself....(example season 1 episide 13 ....testimony of blackaracchnia.....and this....from transformers online encyclodeia.

Beast Wars: Transformers (titled Beasties: Transformers in Canada),[1] is an American-Canadian computer animated television series that debuted in 1996 and ended on March 7, 1999, serving as the flagship of the Transformers: Beast Wars franchise. The series featured the Maximals and Predacons, descendants of the Autobots and Decepticons respectively, and was set in the future of the "original" Transformers

 

I think Prime is ultimately a failure in that his weaknesses far outweigh his strengths. How can he continually play the ignorant pity card on Megatron after all is said and done?
In that regard he and Ultra Magnus are both related when it comes to personal fault that jeopardize others. Megatron on the other hand is noble and faithful to the will of his cause and people.
I still can’t proclaim one of them “won” per say.
Ill never hit the ignore button on anyone, communities are inclusive, the good, the bad and the ugly. I see that button as a source of self entitlement.

 

You’re so intent on proving your point you don’t even seem to notice how this actually hurts your argument

The Marvel G1 comics book were released before The G1 cartoon
The comics were released in May of 1984, while the cartoon was released in September of 1984

So if we have to pick one and Call it “the original”......It would have to be the first released, not to mention the first to start production which is still the comic

Anyway I feel any G1 continuity that got started in 84 qualifys as original

I wasn’t very impressed

Why would you even think this applies only to the cartoon

There was a “shrapnel” in the Comics as well

yes, to both the comic and cartoon since all that applies to the comic as well not just the cartoon

just 1 correction
The beast wars characters can’t from 300 years after the end of the great war..... but we don’t know when the Great War ended

it could have been a few more million years after both the comic and cartoon ended

Nothing and I mean nothing about G1 cartoon Megatron what is Noble in any sense of the word

And faithful to his people, he had no problem useing ,abandoning or stepping on the backs of any of his people to achieve his goals

Just my opinion

I loved the rest of your post

 

Not sure what on earth you are trying to say here.

Surely you must agree that this at least proves that beast wars is a continuation of g1 timeline....300 years afterwards...

We do not know exact dates. But blackaracchnias testimony is clear. It was around 300 years before her present time. (Not 3 million)

 

The information you cited stated that beast wars “The series featured the Maximals and Predacons, descendants of the Autobots and Decepticonsrespectively, and was set in the future of the "original" Transformers

Which is true
But it never said “the cartoon only”

And strictly speaking, the cartoon was not the original or first continuity to cover the characters

’
A continuation of A G1 timeline but it never says which one

there were s few g1 continuities in the 80s , and the beast wars creators wanted their show to represent them all

from what I recall her testimony said the war ended 300 years before here present time

that’s not exactly saying that it was 300 years from the end of the comic or cartoon

If you have a more definitive statement I’m willing to entertain it but the way I see it the exact end of the war was never really covered