James Cameron's Terminator 6 Starring Arnold

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by MetalicGrunt, May 20, 2017.

  1. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Posts:
    9,754
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Likes:
    +1,653
    This is every bit as good a movie as anyone should have expected, and significantly better than the trailers led me to believe. Better than T3, and substantially better than the last two sequels. Anyone hoping it might top T2, I don't know what to tell you, that was never going to happen.

    There were a few nitpicks I had (which may not be the same things that might bother others) but it was nothing I couldn't let slide. It turns out Grace is the last of several genetically altered John Connor clones over a cybernetic endoskeleton. Edward Furlong plays another of these.
    ....no, of course not

    I thought I would hate Grace and the new Terminator guy, but Grace was the best thing in the movie, and the new guy, while not as iconic as Robert Patrick or Schwarzenegger, did just fine. Arnold had some great moments and got some big laughs from the audience I saw it with. It wasn't like in previous sequels where you're sort of laughing and cringing at the same time, he struck the right tone here. Didn't disgrace himself. Linda Hamilton matches Jamie Lee Curtis here in terms of late franchise-return badassery. If there's a weak link here, it's probably Dani, whose character is essentially a macguffin, and not a whole lot more. I don't know if that's a criticism or an observation.

    The movie in general struck the right tone. Some of the comments I saw pre-release accused it of pushing an agenda, but I felt it straddled both sides of the political divide rather deftly, it manages to be culturally relevant without saying anything particularly controversial.

    The action is relentless, as it should be. Those sequences are mad roller-coaster rides, broken up by some very welcome scenes that allow just the right amount of relief and explanation before plunging us head-first back into the insanity. New threads are woven into the franchise, where it felt like the previous three sequels largely recycled/repackaged elements that were already present in the first two films. As such, it was a fresher film than I'd been expecting.

    There's a poignant moment at the end where
    actual spoiler:
    a child version of Grace is observed by the surviving characters and a promise is made.
    One of the strongest endings in the franchise.

    B++

    recommended.

    It looks dodgy in the trailer, but in the context of the film the CGI was fine.

    I can't say how much refinement the CGI underwent between the trailer and finished film, but some of it was extremely good, and some of it got the job done if little more. There may have been a handful of shots in there that were less than they might have been, but when a movie grabs you and pulls you into its world, you are more prepared to suspend disbelief. In terms of the action, I recently saw Gemini Man (a lesser movie with terminator-esque chase scenes), which was far more visceral and impressive to me in terms of pure stunt-work (because you could tell so much of it was done for real). The action in Dark Fate is much larger scale, and a lot of it would've been impossible to stage for obvious reasons. No matter how great of a job they do, the viewer is aware that such scenes are only possible with CGI. With that in mind I would say it was more than adequate. I don't recall anything as phony as the CG helicopter chase from Genisys for example.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Insurgent

    Insurgent The Amazing Tango Mysterio

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Posts:
    9,885
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    Bonnie Ol' England
    Likes:
    +55,774
    Saw it. Liked Grace. Cgi was only funny when they were flipping each other around, otherwise it was solid. I'll put tge rest in spoilers.

    T2 directors cut is my favourite movie of all time. I consider it one of only three movies i have seen that are perfect (i know others won't, and that's fine.) The opening scene of DF legit pissed me off. Seeing the Furlong version of John get taken out in such a punk ass manner felt like a betrayal of John, and sarah from t2. Given who they were, i find it hard to believe they would drop their guard and essentially be blindsided like that. I've no problem with him getting taken out, but at least have it where they are on the run and the t800 outmanoeuvred them or something. And Sarah declaring Dani was unimportant and a nobody because she will give birth to a man who will save humanity. Ugh, again, felt like a betrayal of her character. Her arc in t1 was that a nobody now can be a somebody in the future. Or at least part of her arc. That whole part just felt like the same kind of thing that's been creeping into hollywood. Men bad, women good. That twist that she was a saviour was so obvious, it was painful that they were using it as a twist.

    Not all bad though. I liked Grace, though she could have done with a little more humanity like Kyle had. I enjoyed Carl. Nothing new was added to the lore other than nameswaps except augments, which was a real nice addition. Meant she could fight, but was still vulnerable and still needed meds and healing. It was a nice blend. Rev was not once threatening, even the tx felt menacing and threatening. Overall, a good action flick but an awful sequel to t2.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Posts:
    9,754
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Likes:
    +1,653
    I didn't like seeing that happen either, - because I like that character... but I see no reason why it couldn't happen. Even people who are insanely good at what they do are still capable of screwing up, and it can often be in ways that can seem incredibly dumb; I've seen it too many times.

    Your second point, well I don't think Sarah Connor would be a particularly easy person to be around on a human level. That's just the life she's had to live, and if she's carrying around a lot of bitterness and anger, and sometimes that comes out in sarcastic remarks, I think that's understandable.
    What I didn't like was the suggestion of regular alcohol abuse, which would have impaired her ability to do what she had to do. I've seen plenty of functioning alcoholics, but at that age... I just don't buy it. But it was just one line, so I let it slide.

    The feminist angle, well I have no issue with that if they'd sold it harder. For such a pivotal character the actor has to really bring it. Look at that clip they played of Linda Hamilton from T2 early in the movie. Unfortunately there was nothing they could do with this new character where she wouldn't look lightweight after that.

    I cut them some slack because it can't have been an easy role to cast considering the actor had to play it both ways, while Linda Hamilton had 5/6 years between T1 and T2. A compelling performance makes all the difference in the world, because it's one thing to be told the fate of humanity depends on this person, and it's another thing to actually believe it.
     
  4. Insurgent

    Insurgent The Amazing Tango Mysterio

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Posts:
    9,885
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    Bonnie Ol' England
    Likes:
    +55,774
    True about people sometimes screw up, even the best. At least it was set after the original Judgement Day, so maybe they thought they were safe. But when John saw Arnie, he just froze. It's only three years after T2, and even in that film, when John saw the T800, yes, he panicked, but he still fled straight away. If he had tried to dodge, if he had tried to fight, if he had done ANYTHING except stand there frozen, it would have been better. At least Sarah still had a gun on her. There's nothing wrong with the scene, this is purely a me personal thing, as I am far too attached to the T2 versions of the characters. If John was being played by another actor and it went down that way, I wouldn't have minded. And like I say, I have no issue with them killing John, just it being done in that specific way. Heck, the T800 used a sniper rifle from the far end of the beach would have been fine. Because he would have outhought them. Come to think of it, why don't Terminators ever use sniper rifles or long range weapons?

    I missed the bit about the alcohol abuse. Or was that in reference to the ten packets of potato chips because she likes potato chips? I only remember Sarah being around alcohol when they were chatting to Carl outside his hut and he gave them all Corona's. She was looking at the bottle, almost hesitantly hovering her finger over the lime before she dropped it into the drink and started drinking (that I paid attention to because it was a nice bit of acting from Hamilton, the hesitation to drink, even though she was off to the side and back of the group. I thought it was because the drinnk came from Carl was the reason she was hestitating.

    I have zero issue with Dani or the actress who plays her. She's young, she hasn't grown into the warrior yet (Sarah in Genysis I thought was miscast because she couldn't handle the warrior aspect, but was meant to be). It's the same with Sarah and the change from T1 to T2. It was just the way Sarah assumed Dani was going to give birth to a man who would lead them. It was the phrasing of it that put me off. She specified 'give birth to a man' which sent me that way. If she had simply left it as generic 'child' then it probably wouldn't have blipped my radar, as thinking about it, I guess I can see Sarah thinking she's useless without John there, as she's lost her purpose so anyone else in that situation would be useless. I liked Sarah in the rest of the film, the weary warrior out for revenge. It was just that one specific scene and dialogue that put me off. But give it a few years, let Dani train herself, get some muscle tone (not muscles, muscle tone) like Sarah did in T2, I'd be willing to give her a shot at being the saviour warrior. Although she does need to get a bit better at delivering lines like "I want to fight." because Izzy in The Last Knight gave a much better delivery of that line IMO.
     
  5. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Posts:
    9,754
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Likes:
    +1,653
    - there was a throwaway line about when she's not hunting terminators, she drinks till she blacks out. Probably to highlight that her family's been wiped out, she has nothing left, plenty of reasons to act like that. Sad thing is Terminator Carl has more of a life than she does.

    I was referring to the later scene where Dani saves Grace as a child. I just found it somewhat underwhelming. Perhaps I'm being unfair, but I wanted it to play out where you're left with little doubt that here is the person destined to save humanity. The line about 'giving birth to a man' didn't really jump out at me, I took that as a half-baked self-referential bit about the messianic cliche of John Connor being something of a Jesus Christ analog.

    It was great to see John and Sarah in that earlier scene. I thought the de-aging was really well done. I suppose it wasn't the focus of the story, but I was disappointed they cut it so short. I was enjoying that.
     
  6. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Posts:
    27,637
    News Credits:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    Somewhere over Macho Grande
    Likes:
    +26,768
    Did this installment need to be made, or should they have just started over from scratch- complete and total start over / reboot?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. lars573

    lars573 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2007
    Posts:
    8,477
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +813
    Technically those are deepfakes. They were played by other actors with the T2 faces mapped over theirs.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Bumblethumper

    Bumblethumper old misery guts

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Posts:
    9,754
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Likes:
    +1,653
    - that's just the new buzzword that everyone wants to throw around ever since they heard it last year. It's effectively done.
     
  9. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Posts:
    97,682
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    462
    Location:
    agile house
    Likes:
    +98,711
    Instagram:
    I'm really hesitant to see this movie. On the one hand, a good Terminator movie at this point is practically a unicorn.

    But it just looks so bad.

    Deepfake? No, it's not a buzzword. A deepfake is where you have a different actor or CGI construct wearing a "mask" of a real person, whereas de-aging is the actor actor either digitally touched up or wearing a CGI "mask" of their own, younger face on top.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  10. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Posts:
    16,091
    Trophy Points:
    387
    Likes:
    +7,160
    But it's only a deepfake when it's done by a "deep learning" AI, rather than composited by an effects artist.

    Deep Learning + Fake = Deepfake
     
  11. GoLion

    GoLion Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2014
    Posts:
    8,912
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    242
    Likes:
    +5,767
    Best movie since T2. Still, it doesn't touch either of the original two movies.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  12. Prime Red

    Prime Red Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2019
    Posts:
    913
    Trophy Points:
    142
    Likes:
    +1,283
    I can't really consider "Best movie since T2" as a reason to go see this new one.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. GoLion

    GoLion Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2014
    Posts:
    8,912
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    242
    Likes:
    +5,767
    Fair enough.

    Hmm... I don't want to spoil it too much yet.

    I would say that it's far more entertaining than all of the other movies since T2. Does that mean it's good? I don't know. I'd say it's an average summer popcorn flick.
    A 6 out of 10.

    Overall I enjoyed it.

    Then again, I didn't hate Genysis. I thought 3 and Salvation were complete garbage.

    For me the order of good to bad goes something like this:

    Terminator 2
    .
    .
    Terminator
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Terminator: Dark Fate
    .
    .
    .
    Terminator Genisys
    .
    .
    .
    3000 miles of steaming wet shit
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines
    Terminator: Salvation
     
  14. Incepticon

    Incepticon |-+-|

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Posts:
    17,138
    News Credits:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    387
    Likes:
    +12,265
    Heh, yeah that's been my mindset too. Cool, so... best desperately contrived sequel attempt since the first original sequel from Nineteen Ninety fucking One? Awwwwesome.

    It still doesn't say much. Being less worse than the previous however-many doesn't mean jack squat to it actually being good. And I already learned my lesson with these multiple times.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Prime Red

    Prime Red Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2019
    Posts:
    913
    Trophy Points:
    142
    Likes:
    +1,283
    That's pretty much what I was thinking.
     
  16. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Posts:
    16,091
    Trophy Points:
    387
    Likes:
    +7,160
    I'm glad to hear the movie isn't awful. But I feel like the rule for sequels should be that you either make a better film than the previous installments, or you at least have the decency not to derail the ending. Alien 3 wasn't a terrible film, for example, but it wasn't worth stealing the victory of the Aliens survivors from them. You've made the overall narrative of the series less satisfying in order to create a cheap crisis for the returning characters to overcome, and then you didn't follow that up with a good enough story to balance it out.

    The story they decided to do in this case isn't a problem on its own per se. It's just that if they were going to do it, it needed to be better than T2. Not almost as good, not equally good, better. It's sounding like that's not the case.
     
  17. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Posts:
    27,637
    News Credits:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Location:
    Somewhere over Macho Grande
    Likes:
    +26,768
    In November
     
  18. GoLion

    GoLion Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2014
    Posts:
    8,912
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    242
    Likes:
    +5,767
    Yea, I know.

    For me this movie is one that's supposed to be released in late March through Mid-April. It's a beginning-of-the-summer season movie. Late October is a weird time to release this movie.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  19. Galvatron1998

    Galvatron1998 Maximal

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2016
    Posts:
    1,897
    News Credits:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Likes:
    +6,047
    Every new Terminator movie just reminds me of how much I love the first two movies. T2 is my dad's favorite movie and last year for Chritmas we got him the Endoarm replica with the movie on 4k. Nothing is ever going to top those first two movies.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  20. areaseven

    areaseven Live to Win

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Posts:
    7,643
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +6,641
    Ebay:
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):

    "I'm not gonna remember this movie in T-minus 1 day (Yeah, already forgot)"



    Rotten Tomatoes Rating: 66% - "Terminator: Dark Fate represents a significant upgrade over its immediate predecessors, even if it lacks the thrilling firepower of the franchise's best installments."
    Metacritic Score: 54 out of 100