Why won't the Autobots just target Megatron?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Caminus Prime, Oct 18, 2019.

  1. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking The world has moved on...we've always said.

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    I think it's a lot of the wording you're using. When you say words like "slaughter" and "concentration camps" -- that's really not the modus operandi of most Autobots who are philosophers and were forced into a war-time situation.

    I could see targeting Megatron, although I think Optimus would prefer him captured rather than killed. I could see the Autobots attempting to round up key Decepticons and putting them into a Guantanamo Bay style prison (well taken care of but removed from the battlefront and Autobot strongholds). But what you are proposing sounds more barbaric and savage than what Autobots tend to adhere to.
     
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  2. ErickCruz

    ErickCruz Well-Known Member

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    "Cut off the head, two takes its place"
    I know that's the Hydra motto of sorts but can be applied here. You kill Megatron so someone has to assume leadership and if part of the Decepticons dont agree with the new leader they could splinter off to form a new faction, now you'd have two threats that will continue to recruit bots to their cause.
     
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  3. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Number One in Boogieland

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    You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the character if you think A) Killing Megatron means "the chips are down" and B) His only solution to that would be actual concentration camps.
     
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  4. TF rocks

    TF rocks Try and stop me! Studio Trigger for Transformers!

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    This is what I have been trying to say. Thanks @AutobotAvalanche!
     
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  5. Slaskia

    Slaskia Well-Known Member

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    One of the problems with just targeting Megatron is that they would risk making him a martyr (which could be one reason why Prime doesn't end him at several opportunities in various continuities), which could inspire the surviving Cons even more.

    "I'm an Idea, and ideas are bulletproof." - V for Vendetta
     
  6. convoy84

    convoy84 misses you like the deserts miss the rain.

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    If you killed Farquaad, who would take his place? Magic Mirror? Thelonious? Jim Cummings Guard?
     
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  7. Caminus Prime

    Caminus Prime Banned

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    The cons wiped out their whole civilization and brought their own planet to a complete shutdown, all in the name of dominance. Once they try to do the same to earth, it'll be a needless fighting circle that Optimus will eventually get tired of. This method is extreme but effective and if the autobots put em all down (starting with Megs) and let primus sort em out, the autobots can focus on bringing back their home planet with no interferences.
     
  8. PlanckEpoch

    PlanckEpoch Red and black red and black

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    Because in all seriousness war is never really about destruction of the enemy. Even in it's very worse prisoners are captured, and combatants typically try to at least play by some rules. Those rules sure do get bent close to breaking quite often and bad actors do break them but the reality is that most people know war is a devastating, awful thing and they try to minimize the personal impact...at least that's the hope

    Big WWII buff here. I'm generally not a fan of the whole "If only Hitler wasn't in charge" premises. That assumes that the only thing preventing Germany from their goal of attaining an Aryan empire was Hitler himself. Germany had so, so much going against them that it was a classic Catch 22. Realistically Germany needed to wait until about '44-'45 to get their business in order to actually have a truly viable war machine to achieve the strategic goals they were aiming for. On the other hand, waiting that long would've given the Soviet Union enough time to iron out their transitional issues in doctrine, and given France enough time to iron out the kinks in the French/Belgian relationships that were vital to the success of the Dyle Plan.

    The German war machine of '39-'40 may have looked like a well oiled machine, but the reality is that it was a drug and technology filled proof of concept that was held together by bubblegum and string. The moment Germany broke the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact they were on borrowed time. With no more raw materials coming in from Russia, and with the whole of the Kriegsmarine not even a match for half of the Royal Navy, there was no real hope for them to attain enough of a raw materials income to fuel the war machine they'd like. Considering that french metal mines were staffed by slave labor and political prisoners, even that meager income was much less efficient because their workforce just didn't want to work and die for Germany.

    Hitler was an awful person and he deserves all the scorn and hate. But to blame Hitler solely on Germany's losses is just fantasy at best. It's easy to forget that the architect of Operation Barbarossa was Franz Halder. He drafted the plans, he drafted the criminal Commissar Order and Barbarossa Decree, and it was he who made the strategic aim of Barbarossa as a northern push to capture Moscow, rather than a southern offensive to take the Caucasus as Hitler actually wanted. Hitler was **VERY** aware that, after the Battle of France and Battle of Britain, that Germany was already cutting into their fuel reserves and that they desperately needed fuel. But Hitler deferred operational command to Halder, trusting him. We all know what happened to Barbarossa after that. Don't forget that it was also von Manstein, not Hitler, that told von Paulus to hold his 6th Army in place in Stalingrad because von Manstein was absolutely certain he could break through the Soviet forces to relieve the 6th.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
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  9. TF rocks

    TF rocks Try and stop me! Studio Trigger for Transformers!

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    Yes, but again, you seem to fail to grasp the core part of the Autobots. Most were not soldiers. They were politicians, artists, scientists, etc. They were forced into fighting just to survive when Megatron attacked. The Autobots are a militia in many respects, even if they are called an army.

    The Decepticons are the ones who threatened their world yes, but what about those Decepticons who joined just to stay alive? If the Autobots did what you suggest, would that mean killing them too?
     
  10. Venixion

    Venixion Its always the middle of the night in Moonside

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    For the same reason the Decepticons don't just target Optimus Prime. They're opposing armies and other people will get in the way.

    Its also a proven fact that killing off high ranking officers did not stop the war dead in its tracks. Both sides carried on the war anyway. Well okay, the cons still had Megatron-as-Galvatron but that's not exactly the point.

    Also death camps are a huge no-no regardless.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
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  11. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    Well, it depends on what you mean by "take his place."

    In terms of being Shrek's antagonist in the films, Fairy Godmother, Prince Charming, and Rumplestilskin took his place.

    In terms of Duloc's leadership? I'm not certain.

    That said, and in the spirit of this thread, let's say Farquaad was really the DeShrekticon leader Drekatron in disguise. There are still other DeShrekticons, like Swampwave or Weed-Ratbat or Ogrelord, who could take his place if he were killed.
     
  12. ABrown

    ABrown Well-Known Member

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    It certainly would've been a good idea to take Megatron as prisoner, if the situation ever presented itself.
     
  13. convoy84

    convoy84 misses you like the deserts miss the rain.

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    That's what I meant! They never make it clear in the first movie as to how Duloc's chain of command works, or if there even is one.
     
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  14. Gaastra

    Gaastra Well-Known Member

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    If you watch the Halloween special his kingdom died after he did!

     
  15. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Number One in Boogieland

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    In what continuity is it established that every single civilian Cybertronian is dead? You're making all these blanket statements about every continuity that don't really fit with ANY continuity.
     
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  16. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    Well if you notice in the Shrek films, other than Charming toward Fairy Godmother, who is his mother, none of the henchmen or minions seem to have any loyalty to the main antagonists, at least not by the films' finales. Thelonius writes, "Aaah!" on a makeshift sign in response to Shrek and Fiona. The Magic Mirror seems to dislike Farquaad from the get go. "Sexy man boy chauffer Kyle" plays the piano for Fairy Godmother in one scene, and then in the final scene, Kyle continues to play the piano for the protagonists as they sing, "Living La Vida Loca!" The Pied Piper is a mercenary who has no problem making Rumplestiltskin dance by playing a tune.

    Transformers also has plenty of characters with no real loyalty toward Megatron or Galvatron or whoever the leader is. You have the occasional guy like G1 Cyclonus or Animated Lugnut, and perhaps some members of smaller teams with loyalty toward their team leader...but the Decepticons are also filled with guys like Starscream, Marvel Shockwave, the mutiny-threatening Decepticons in "Webworld," etc. That, and Shrek, unlike Transformers, doesn't focus on factions in the same way. Transformers is built around factions and their conflicts, to the point that even characters who fall outside the factions are heavily influenced by the war, like AoE Lockdown. The Shrek films are more focused on Shrek's relationships with his family and friends, especially Fiona. Consequently, the strict hierarchy of Duloc isn't really that important in Shrek as far as the films and their focus are concerned.

    I think that's one reason Transformers can still work well if most major characters are killed off or no longer appear. As long as some characters exist to maintain a conflict between factions, as well as within the factions in the case of many Decepticon casts, then the main story can continue.
     
  17. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    "INCOMING!!! ONE ROUND!!!" was a code to get as far away from the offending officer as humanly possible in, oh, about 3-5 seconds.




    The OP starts with some epic level grimderp edgelord shit that wouldn't apply to the Autobot forces in any way, shape, or form. In practical terms, executing an enemy officer rarely leads to the evaporation of their entire regime, if anything it sometimes enboldens them.
     
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  18. convoy84

    convoy84 misses you like the deserts miss the rain.

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    ...well, damn. We are in agreement. I see no holes there! Well done.

    Do you like The Prince of Egypt?
     
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  19. Galvatross

    Galvatross Dom Dom, Yes Yes Veteran

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    Thanks!

    And yes, I love it, although it's been a long time since I watched it. I need to check it out again.
     
  20. Hail Galvatron

    Hail Galvatron Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure that heroes don't run death camps. Only the worst regimes in history have done such a thing. What you're suggesting is moving Optimus Prime closer to a Hitler, a Stalin, or a Pol Pot and away from an Abraham Lincoln.
     
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