Transformers: Nezha To Debut Later This Year - Might Release Globally

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by SilverOptimus, May 1, 2019.

  1. Stumbles Mumbles

    Stumbles Mumbles New Member

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    Nezha being portrayed as feminine is exceedingly common(especially in more modern materials), to the degree that the character, whenever portrayed in live action, is almost always played by a woman.

    The Legend and the Hero, a tv series which involved Nezha had the role taken by Bonnie Xian:
    [​IMG]

    Heck, one videogame featuring Nezha straight up localized the character into being a woman(possibly on accident).
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Dark Skull

    Dark Skull Well-Known Enabler Moderator

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    I know of Bonnie Xian. I've watched her in a lot of Hong Kong TV Shows. She's quite popular. However I really don't think that helps your point. In the Chinese opera there are men who wear makeup to portray female characters. That has always been commonplace. Their voices they sing with seem very feminine too. And if you didn't know any better, you'd also initially think those guys were women in make up and dress (until they took off their makeup and costumes). But no, it's due to their vocal training amongst other things. It doesn't make them a "trap," which is a derogatory term used to insult transgender people. Now I know you didn't say that specifically, but at this point, I thought I should clarify that at least. The thing is, if you were to call those guys a trap, I think you'd get a severe scolding from them and maybe even labeled as one who does not know how to appreciate "art." Sound silly? To you maybe, but to those who are into the opera and the culture...not so much. Being called "ignorant" would be probably the nicest thing they'd say to someone. They'd be the ones who'd find it most insulting and offensive. The Chinese folklore typically depicts Nezha in a childlike appearance, with note to his stories/legends that he was a playful trickster and mischievous. More commonly in Taiwan, he was a figure of protection. A lot of artist renditions would have him with an androgynous appearance, especially in recent times and in games. Without knowing the folklore or being familiar with it, people tend to think along the lines of what they see based upon what they're used to.

    Here's one where he does not appear androgynous: NeZha 16" Statue . Here's one where he doesn't exactly appear feminine either: 12 16 19 inch station double-wheeled Prince Nezha three Prince Taoist idol middle altar Marshal Buddha statue Decoration . Here's another: Nezha guardian deity colorful statue at Chinese Buddhist Temple Wat Chang Hai, Hat Yai, Thailand. . And here's one with a more demonic depiction: Nezha . With that said, it still stands that the depictions are all based upon the individual artist's rendition of him, especially in modern society where social connotations can or have affected how he is depicted. And yes, you did mention that nowadays in media he is depicted as feminine. Again, modern society and social connotations. It still doesn't change the fact that he is, and has always been, male. And because of the difference in cultural understandings between depictions of deities from one culture to another, people will somehow ignore the constant reiteration that Nezha is male. Not female. For whatever reason, that knowledge that he is male is put aside in favor of what each individual takes from a certain "artist" rendition because we go by what we see. No? It really makes me wonder why people (I didn't say you or anyone in this thread) are seemingly trying to push a narrative that just because modern day artists want to depict a male deity in an androgynous or feminine manner, that it has to be because the person is female, or a derogatory term that's normally used to insult someone when all literature about this deity has always said he is male. No offense meant here, but if someone out there wants to make it sound like I don't know anything about my own culture...one that I grew up with as a child, and was surrounded with up until adulthood, then that's fine. That's their opinion, and I can respect it. But I certainly would not agree with it. Now I'm not saying I know every facet of it, but I do have a good source of knowledge to fall back on. My family.

    Also, there was a very good paper I read once titled, "The Different Faces of Nezha in Modern Taiwanese Culture" a few years back. I cited it (and the sources) in part of a psychology paper dealing with differences in cultures, environments and upbringing that affect how we think and see things as individuals in this small world we live in. I think you can still find it online if you want to read up on it. The only reason I'm not linking it is because, IIRC, there was a picture depicting his birth in it, and I don't feel that necessary to link here.

    Anyway, can we get back to talking about the TF series and not so much an off topic about whether or not a character is a...whatever you want to call him?
     
  3. Rodimus Prime

    Rodimus Prime Sola Gratia, Sola Fide TFW2005 Supporter

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    The problem is that Nezha is only one of the names he goes by in the West. There is also Nata Taishi:
    Nata.png

    And when Nezha is used, it often depicts him as either a robot:
    Nezha.(Warriors.Orochi).full.1635317.jpg

    Or a girl:
    300px-Portrait_Servant_193_1.png

    By the Japanese.

    I don’t know why the depictions are so wildly different in this character's case. I wasn't even aware that I knew of him, albeit as Nata Taishi, when I first read the thread. Usually, there's an overriding image of a character throughout media , even if there are obvious outliers. For example, Sun Wu Kong or Guan Yu are easily identifiable whenever they show up.
     
  4. Stumbles Mumbles

    Stumbles Mumbles New Member

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    Men would portray women in western theater as well for the longest time, as women were not allowed to be actors. Men portraying women used to be fairly common.

    My sticking point was mostly that you made it sound like it was only "one artists" portrayal, when it's actually commonplace to the point of the opposite being unusual.
    I never used trap, and my issue was entirely with the "one artist" line. You seem to think I'm arguing something I'm not really arguing.

    In relatively modern european theater, male youths are often played by adult women because they can more convincingly do those parts. I honestly think this might be a closer match to what is done for Nezha in modern days than anything. Peter Pan is a classic example of a male character commonly played by a woman.

    I'm fully aware of this. Hence why I mentioned modern depiction.

    Again, I don't even disagree with you on this. I simply had an issue with your comment reading as if a feminine looking depiction of Nezha was a one-off thing when it is in fact a very common thing.


    I don't want to call Nezha anything. I was specifically taking umbrage with a specific point.
     
  5. Rodimus Prime

    Rodimus Prime Sola Gratia, Sola Fide TFW2005 Supporter

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    I have to wonder if they chose the character because they are going to depict him as a robot / cyborg .
     
  6. Stumbles Mumbles

    Stumbles Mumbles New Member

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    The one used for the news post is actually a fairly influential look as far as modern Nezha goes, and is usually at least somewhat echoed in a lot of modern depictions. But yeah, it's not as cemented a look as Wukong or Guan Yu.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And yes, those are two completely different companies from entirely different countries depicting Nezha; Koei Tecmo(Japan) and Hi-Rez Studios(USA).

    With this said, I'm gonna respect what Dark Skull said and go back to talking about Transformers. This isn't really a thread about "the portrayals of Nezha" even if I would find that a fairly interesting topic to discuss.
     
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  7. Dark Skull

    Dark Skull Well-Known Enabler Moderator

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    Alright. Ok, I am going to make this the last time I respond to this off topic-ness. That last picture is from a game where the deity was re-written from it's original folklore to be a female:

    Nezha

    I can't even call that the same Nezha as told in stories in actual Chinese folklore. I don't even know why the game devs wanted to depict their version of Nezha as a female. That's on them. As far as the other depictions...again, each individual artist wanted to do their own interpretation. But my whole point being, regardless of that, in accordance with the original source, Nezha is male. Not female. If people want to re-write Chinese folklore...well...I guess that's also on them. I'm not going to say anything more about that here.

    As far as the Japanese name "Nata Taishi", here's a painting of him....as a man, not a boy:

    Monkey (Son Gokû) Watches Prince Nata (Nata Taishi) Fight the One-horn Demon King (Dokukaku Daiô), from the series The Journey to the West, A Popular Version (Tsûzoku Saiyûki)

    As far as the robotic depiction...again...someone's bright idea for a game. And I want to say that's just the game devs taking creative liberties with the original source material. Kinda like what people do with movies these days that are based off of comic books, or other literature.

    Perhaps I should have put the apostrophe after the "s" then? It's only commonplace in modern society, as I had mentioned in my reply to you. Of all the old paintings, pictures, statues and what not that I have personally seen whether they be in Chinatowns here in the US in homes of family members and other relatives, or in Hong Kong or China, it was only in modern day "art" that Nezha seems to appear more feminine than anything else. Why that is...I never gave much thought to it.

    I made it very clear I wasn't referring to you.

    Yup, even in Japanese anime, they have women voicing the characters for young boys. FullMetal Alchemist is a perfect example. If the person playing the role can help the producer/director give audiences the "character" they wanted depicted, then of course they're going to go with that person. And like you mentioned, women weren't allowed in theater back in those days. Not to say that in China, there weren't any. I believe there were female performers almost a hundred years after the Peking Opera's first inception....sometime in the 1870s I think? With the Peking Opera starting at about the early 1770s.

    I was mentioning it for those who weren't. It would seem that there are those who aren't.

    Again, perhaps I should have put the apostrophe after the 's' in artist. However, with each individual artist, their art is from their own interpretation. Maybe I should have added that bit to not make it seem like I'm only going off of only one picture, but instead encompassing all modern day depictions. Sorry if I made you think I was only going off of one depiction.


    Again, my apologies if I was as clear as mud.

    That first pic is rather nicely done! But yeah...like you and I said, modern depictions. But to the point I mentioned earlier, I take it as it's all boiled down to creative liberties because with artistic depictions of this particular deity, no one said you had to draw/paint him in certain ways. And to my knowledge, I haven't heard of any rules either. If there were no prior statues, paintings, etc of Nezha and no info on it, one could paint a feminine character and title it "Nezha" and people would think that's a female deity. However, this isn't really the case. I think it's more how people just want to portray the character. *shrugs* To each their own.


    It actually is an interesting topic. I took a few classes of art myself when I was in community college. The professor I had opened up my eyes and mind to a lot of things I hadn't thought of before, whereas had I not had those discussions with him, I'd probably be one of those guys that would see these modern depictions...and not have as open a mind as I do on it. But you are absolutely on point. This is a thread about the new series...not a discussion thread on how this particular deity has been portrayed in modern times. So with that...carry on everyone :) 
     
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  8. Stumbles Mumbles

    Stumbles Mumbles New Member

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    Just a quick note on Fate Grand Order: That game just wants to have cute girls in it for the sake of having cute girls, so it having an outright female Nezha is not very shocking when you realize that they already turned Emperor Nero into one:
    [​IMG]
    It doesn't really try to be accurate to anything.

    With that, I'm gonna go back on-topic. Sorry!
     
  9. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II Banned

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    Okay, Japan... :rolleyes: 
     
  10. Smitty.1981

    Smitty.1981 Well-Known Member

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    A number of Greek/ Roman gods were "outed" as Transformers by Vector Prime.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  11. Blam320

    Blam320 Assembly Inventor

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    And in the Covenant of Primus as members of the Thirteen. Nezha would need to be a Transformer, theirself.
     
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  12. Smitty.1981

    Smitty.1981 Well-Known Member

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    And...?
     
  13. Crystal Convoy

    Crystal Convoy Huh? TFW2005 Supporter

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    I hope we see images from this soon. I'm very interested to see how this turns out. I think it's a very near idea.
     
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  14. Cheetatron

    Cheetatron Drat, outsmarted by a Lorry, I am disgraced

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    This conversation has helped me to reconnect with the various depictions of this character I have encountered in various media namely an Anime called \"Magic Monkey\" & Saiyuki neither depictions i thought were particularly androgynous.
     
  15. Blam320

    Blam320 Assembly Inventor

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    There's "Ask Vector Prime" and "The Covenant of Primus." In either case, it's still Greek Gods = Transformers, not actual deities like it seems Nezha is turning out to be in this series.
     
  16. Max Tower

    Max Tower Well-Known Member

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    Was it ever established if the Nezha toyline was just reheated Cyberverse toys - or if it contained or will contain new products (or was someone just having a joke with a Photoshopped Bumblebee image?).

    It's been pretty quiet on this since the announcement it's not like they've been presenting things on it at animation or toy events - it's kinda vanished, so much so it makes me wondering if it's still even happening at all ?.
     
  17. Blam320

    Blam320 Assembly Inventor

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    It is strange how silent Hasbro has been about this crossover.
     
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  18. SuperTitanHans

    SuperTitanHans Upgraded

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    This is a weird thread guys.
     
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  19. Digger

    Digger Banned

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    Alright, forgot about this thing. Probably just gonna leave it.
     
  20. Cliffjumper

    Cliffjumper Least insane TF fan

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    Is this out yet?