Stop saying Baformers Optimus is sadistic

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Tetrajet_WFCTX_129397, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Posts:
    4,678
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +1,655
    I literally had no idea what a war was until I saw transformers revenge of the fallen. I thought PTSD was a financial term. Now I know it’s a very serious issue that many trucks have
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Venixion

    Venixion Its always the middle of the night in Moonside

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Posts:
    25,385
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Location:
    California
    Likes:
    +40,795

    Pissed-off truck syndrome
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Posts:
    4,678
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +1,655
    Partly Truck Serious Dad

    Pretty Serious Truck Dyslexia
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  4. Sablebot

    Sablebot #thinkitaintillegalyet

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Posts:
    1,735
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +1,800
    As many have pointed out, bayverse Optimus is sadistic. . .He's acted much like Sark in the original TRON film- brutal and needlessly sadistic - and that's putting it lightly. Even Peter Cullen himself expressed that he had issues with the dialogue bay & co. gave him to deliver. . .

    And when the guy who has voiced Optimus for 3 decades and some change says that, it's pretty telling. . .And the bayverse writers never thought much about Optimus showing much (if any) remorse for his psychotic murders, and they definitely didn't even think about having Optimus proactively deal with his PTSD tendencies.

    At least some of the comic books had Rung, an Autobot psychologist, to help his Autobot comrades proactively deal with the effects of a long, long conflict. . .bayverse films couldn't be bothered to care about things like that; But I'll stop now, before I derail the topic. . .
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
    • Like Like x 3
  5. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Posts:
    8,076
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Likes:
    +5,029
    Ebay:
    This reminds me of discussions of how moral is Batman for not killing the Joker. The Joker keeps getting more chances to kill more people. Batman not killing him is letting many other people die.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
    • Like Like x 2
  6. electronic456

    electronic456 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Posts:
    5,026
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    282
    Likes:
    +5,313
    You missed out on what happened in the 90s then when the original movie; cartoon and stuff came out. There was a huge kid demographic.

    Honest so he snake away and plan another takeover?

    I mean in AOE, you find out Megatron survives and uses KSI to get back to his deeds.

    If he survived, he probably still go to KSI and be like 'I want your resources and stuff; but don't worry it's all for the greater good.' ; And that's called a Decepticon right there.

    It be like if Sonya Blade let Kano live and then...Gobsmacking news, Kano goes back to his old bad deeds.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Posts:
    4,678
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +1,655
    The Joker is able to continually escape from Arkham Asylum because we want to tell more Joker stories. In real life when someone is locked away there's a pretty good chance they'll stay there.

    People who make this observation are dragging a story about hardened criminals being frightened by a man dressed like a karate bat kicking and screaming into the real world where it doesn't belong and it doesn't work. It's similar (but not quite the same) as people getting really worked up about all the fictional lives at stake and saying "Optimus HAS to execute unarmed prisoners! Where are they going to put them?! Robot prison?!" which we later find out they had anyway, but that's besides my point. What's missing in that take is that they could have just written a different ending where the apparently defeated bad guy pulls out an unexpected weapon and Optimus shoots first, western style, or where the bad guy is mortally wounded in the fight that preceded... Really anything to get away from executions in the middle of the street in stories that aren't really about that and don't have anything to say about the subject.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  8. Fafnir72

    Fafnir72 XYxInfinity

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Posts:
    7,402
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Location:
    Heart of a neutron star
    Likes:
    +11,415
    He fatally took than nearly a dozen 'cons who earlier massacred an shuttle crew and the entire population of Autobot City. Yup! sadistic indeed!:lolol 
     
  9. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Posts:
    18,156
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    382
    Likes:
    +8,255
    I'll give a fuck about that when the obviously stupid and bent guards stop accepting bribes from other criminals like Black Mask to break him out. In fact that goes for Gotham as a whole.

    This happens with loads of IP who's primary fiction is nowhere near kid appropriate. See also; Aliens, Predator, Terminator, Robocop. It doesn't make comparing Transformers and Mortal Kombat in any way valid.

    Except that the comic or novel with that ending were written with absolutely no intention of making a fourth movie. And calling what happened to Megatron 'survival' stretches the definition to a pretty absurd level.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2019
    • Like Like x 5
  10. cybeast

    cybeast Freelancer Pun Maker

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Posts:
    3,659
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +7,266
    Yes! Lack of context, and the fact that he's basically curbstomping The Fallen makes him more of a maniac than a fighter. If you want to talk about Fighter, Megatron in the first movie did the best, he efficiently ripped Jazz in half, quickly killing him before moving on to his real target. And he is the villain.

    Symbolic as it may be, given the situation it comes off as no more than a cold blooded maniac. He can say like "YOUR EVIL ACT ENDS HERE" or other heroic lines.

    Yes, OP should be on toe, eye level with Captain America (or Supes). They're the symbol of bravery, hope, wisdom, and leadership. They're who you gonna call in times of darkness (in case of something strange, call Ghostbuster instead).
     
    • Like Like x 8
  11. 96megatron

    96megatron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Posts:
    2,635
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +6,053
    Slight dark humor. What if Optimus meant to rip off The Fallen head but slipped up and accidently ripped off his face.
    Optimus: Give me your *Rips off Face*...face?
    Minor joke on the topic, not making an observation for debate.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  12. Shadow25

    Shadow25 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Posts:
    7,247
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +19,365
    I don't really mind Optimus being a brutal fighter, it's really just the execution-style moments that are a bit off-putting. Namely Demolishor and Sentinel Prime. Also probably could have done without things like "You DIE!".

    That said I do appreciate how AOE kind of embraced this as part of the story, even if the movies had never been great overall about building up things over the course of the films.
     
  13. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking The world has moved on...we've always said.

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Posts:
    20,771
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    372
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Likes:
    +26,849
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    No, what I'm saying is that this doesn't apply here. You are talking about the original inspiration. I'm talking about Bayverse interpretation. Apples and oranges.

    This has nothing to do with the fact that the Fallen's face looks like the Decepticons symbol. You are arguing arbitrarily, hence the red herring.

    Thank you. The execution can be debated for another time. That's not what my original post was ever about.

    The fact they went in full retreat would imply disheartening - and in hiding in the next film.

    Arguably different contexts.

    Continuity really isn't the heart of this debate.

    No argument from me there.

    Again, I won't defend bad writing.

    um...okay. so, what did that poor aircraft carrier ever do to him to warrant revenge? Lol! This movie is just so badly written...
     
  14. electronic456

    electronic456 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Posts:
    5,026
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    282
    Likes:
    +5,313
    Fair. But why do it in the first place?

    I call BS. There was always going to be that intention in the end.

    Why else would people do stuff like the Matrix 4 or post-Endgame MCU?

    They just want to keep things going.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Posts:
    97,683
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    462
    Location:
    agile house
    Likes:
    +98,714
    Instagram:
    This is a point I don't see brought up enough.

    There's no actual reason to write Optimus this way. If they want him to kill someone they could come up with better ways for him to do it. They choose to make him a violent murderer who kills seemingly for the kill itself, rather than in defense of himself or others.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  16. Tetrajet_WFCTX_129397

    Tetrajet_WFCTX_129397 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2019
    Posts:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Likes:
    +51
    Yeah, Cause they were wounded beyond repair, Also I don't know which episode exactly but Optimus was escaping Cybetron and he was just shooting endlessly at Decepticon after Decepticon
     
  17. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    45,102
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +40,126
    They chose to make him a violent murderer because it was flashy.

    Compare any high profile kill from bayformers to Bumblebee's three kills in the reboot. The former always involve graphicly ripping enemies apart - including the only kill that the Wreckers get in DOTM (was it really necessary to draw out that pilot's death like they did?). The latter boils down to Blitzwing getting blown up by a missile, Dropkick getting eviscerated from the inside out by his very nature as a shapeshifting robot turned against him, and Shatter is obliterated when she gets pancaked between a heavy barge and a drydock wall. Of those, the only one that's 'gory' on the level of bayformers is Dropkick's death, and even then it's done quickly and Bumblebee obviously gets it done quick by yanking the chain hard enough and not drawing out the kill or even doing it close up.

    At the same time, what do the Decepticons do? Cut Cliffjumper in fucking half lengthwise. Now, which of the four kills from Bumblebee seems to be closest to what a normal kill by Prime was in bayformers? Might be the latter one performed by the sadistic Decepticons - since keep in mind they seemed to really enjoy their job while doing it.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  18. PaxStarkist

    PaxStarkist BAY-TALITY

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Posts:
    275
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Likes:
    +282
    I do remember making the argument that Bumblebee's fatalities were "Brutal when they need to be "
    but then asking if Dropkick's was anymore brutal than the other 3 that we see.
    Thanks for clearing that up.

    not to get off topic (at least any more off topic than this thread seems to've gotten)
    but did Prime really kill all those seekers on Cybertron?, 'cuz They looked like some pretty big named ones.
     
  19. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    45,102
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +40,126
    You do realize that the most common, generic Seeker type all look like Skywarp, right? Plus, the definitive answer you want does not exist, which logically means that no, anybody who died on Cybertron wasn't important because if they're needed later, they'll just show up anyway and thus weren't present in a scene full of nameless generics.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. PaxStarkist

    PaxStarkist BAY-TALITY

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Posts:
    275
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Likes:
    +282
    breathes a deep sigh of relief okay 'cuz I was like
    "no way They're gonna kill off big named cons if they know fans will ask for a sequel"