Yeah, I think I'm done with this thread now too.

I'm sorry Focksbot, but I feel you're really not showing yourself in a positive light here. This is just my opinion, so please do not take this as an attempt at gaslighting you, but...if you want to believe Rodimus Prime (the member, not the character!) is the type of person you think he is, you played right into his hand.

I have genuine concerns with the way people have voiced their feedback, which I've already gone to lengths to explain so no need to keep repeating. Do I think Rodimus' post is 100% accurate? No, probably not, but I was already willing to accept it as like...I dunno, 85% accurate, and then slightly colored in by his own perception of events? Everybody does that, whether they're always aware of it or not. Still, it gives me insight on why somebody is acting in a certain way. I don't agree with a consensus that claims 'the fans ruined it everything for us', but I also can see why some people might've become - in my opinion - more vocal and snarky when it comes to criticizing this book. I'm sure that from another angle that's not being snarky at all, but simply justified. It's possible to take one's opinions serious while also taking it with a grain of salt and agreeing to disagree. Then beat the shit out of them later when nobody's watching.

I think you're really going into this with the best intentions, I do. But I also see you doing exactly all the things you're accusing others of. Misquoting, calling other people liars, creeps and gaslighters. You're trying to prove that what RP said isn't true, while literally proving what he said is true.

This is all leaving a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

 

I appreciate your feedback, and will reflect on what you've said. The important point, to my mind, though, is that his narrative is that rabid fans made him act in this way, when the truth is that he's been the way he is since the start. If anything, the guy has mellowed.

I haven't misquoted anyone. I am - it's true - now calling people liars, creeps and gaslighters. That's as a result of being lied about.

But FWIW, I too am done with this thread, and will stick to a more rigid policy of ignoring certain forum users in future.

 

Uh, first, wow...

Second:

Yeah, I really loved MTMTE at the start -- that book is solely responsible for bringing me back to Transformers and the TF community, after being gone for many years. But then Dark Cybertron happened and that really sucked the momentum out of the book and killed a lot of my interest. After that, MTMTE had it's moments, but it just wasn't the same for me. I tried to get into LL, but couldn't at the time -- the art changes certainly didn't help any.

 

I just want to say that while younger me a few years ago would've been gung ho about raging against the PC/SJW/Whatever machine, 2019 me realized how much I was more raging at my internal insecurities than any kind of actual political slight those positions spoke of. While I still don't like IDW and I certainly don't agree with their handing of homosexual relationships, at the very least they have a right to put that into their books if that's what they want. They should be criticized for their execution of those topics, not that they have them there or not.

Comic books have **ALWAYS** been political and that will never change. Hell, Action Comics #1 features Superman taking on corrupt politicians in DC. How's that for politics? I'll give that IDW just wants to be diverse and inclusive. There's nothing wrong with that. As I said in those cases we should be criticizing the execution of that rather than the inclusion of diversity. It's just like, ragging on this stuff...man, have you never read X-Men? Like if it wasn't literally an ongoing story about minority representation, oppression, bigotry, fight for equality and acceptance and all that. You just can't read X-Men without coming to grips just how clear it's political message is.

Hell, even my favorite comic...2000AD's run of Judge Dredd is hellishly political. Steeped in the politics of the era in which the stuff was written. Comics ARE and have ALWAYS been political. Kinda getting upset that IDW would try to get political and insert diversity into them isn't seeing the whole of the industry and, all due respect, speaks to problems of the self rather than of the industry. Do you ACTUALLY think that there's something wrong with the industry or is there a problem of the self that you're trying to grasp and work out?

I know this is old hat judging by the exchanges of some posters here but, as a gay guy...yes, I **DO** want to see representation in media(Good representation, but I can talk for days about that so I'll just keep it at that for the sake of this post.), I **DO** want to see gay guys in media. Simply because of the fact that we exist, and absolutely people see entertainment media as a microcosm of reality. Put yourself in the shoes of any minority group. Or hell, me. How would you feel that if ALL media you consume either had zero gay guys in it, or if they are, they exist soley in passing, insubstantial comments, or they exist only as a joke for characters to laugh at? It'd certainly be disheartening, and only serves to reinforce the idea that you're isolated and alone. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you'll NEVER understand how this feels if you've never been part of a minority. Here's another one that speaks to the core of who I am. Not only am I gay, but I'm also an Asian guy! I grew up watching movies where either Chinese people(my cultural background) either either bad guys to be ruthlessly mocked or killed, or heroes I looked up to played long stints as mere servants and side characters(Kato, anyone?), or watching my heritage co-oped by non Asians because Asians on TV?! No way!(All due respect, late David Carradine) It certainly had an effect on me growing up and in my teen years!

Representation is important. It goes to the idea that minority groups and people are normal and that our existence is just that...existence. It doesn't have anything to do with narcissism, but rather the fact that we just want to exist in media and entertainment because we do exist. As I said, I agree that the QUALITY of such inclusion and diversity should absolutely be critiqued, as my issues with gay relationships in IDW, but that's a topic I'm not gonna touch on in the scope of this post. Just that, yeah. Representation is absolutely important and very much needed in comics, and entertainment in general. I'll stand by IDW on that aspect.

EDIT: One last thing, oops...there's no such thing as FORCED diversity. You're either diverse or you're not. I'll fight anyone on that aspect.

 

I only want for the representation to not do more harm than good.

Think about this - the OldIDW representation for the transgendered people were Anode and Arcee. Of these two Arcee got considerably better with time but Barber had a transgendered consultant for this character so Arcee toned down on the raging psycho part.

But if I was a member of any minority and said minority cast member was someone as charming as Anode? Lol, NOPE.

One could reply that SW Dr Aphra also is a terrible person... But she's not the only lesbian in this universe and it's only Aphra acting the way she's acting, there's also more depth to her than that.

 

I just wanted to pop in to say this as a fellow Asian:

David Carradine died of autoerotic asphyxiation in a hotel in Thailand, so I'm pretty sure he's paid his spiritual restitution for anything he may have done to offend eastern culture.

 

Haha! I suppose you got a point~!  

 

I know you’re just kidding but serious question. How can a whole culture be offended? How can one person on a comic discussion forum claim to speak for a whole culture?

Again, I know you’re not doing it. But some people here behave as if they are.

 

No idea. Presumably it can be done otherwise we wouldn't have stuff like Popes, the NAACP, ACLU, or what have you. I'm pretty sure the Pope's not a Transformers fan so we'll never know. Or if he is, he's not going to out himself as a pope around here since we'd probably complain about the recent changes in the Lord's Prayer and/or the paint apps on his popemobile or something equally as ridiculous such as calling Mormons the OS KO of Christianity.

 

I agree. Poor representations can be more harmful than none. I think diversity is a matter of course so we should be wary in how that diversity is presented.

 

Nah, I liked it alot. I'm all for representation and all that since I'm a black guy. Idk be a bit of a hypocrite if I was against it.

 

I don't know who Dr. Aphra is, but it always reminds me of that screenplay in Scrubs that JD kept trying to hock about Dr. Acula.

I can take or leave representation. Like some people, I'd prefer nothing at all if you're not going to bother doing it with at least an attempt at accuracy. This is presuming that the "diverse" character is there to provide a unique perspective on a particular race/culture/religion/orientation's impression on a particular event, issue, or set of circumstances.

It can also be contextual. Like if the story is set in Whitebreadtown, Mayonnaise County, North Dakota, and the makeup of the characters are supposed to be incidental, I'm not going to expect a town filled with brothers. Likewise, if your story is set in Oaktown, California I'm not going to be looking for a story that includes intensely Orthodox Jews.

Otherwise, it doesn't matter what the character is or isn't to me, really. That said, if someone want to TRY and ends up flubbing it, I think it's better than half-assing it, and that the person attempting it should be cut a little slack.

I guess what it comes down to is that it's cool if people want to try to make diversity a thing and include it in stories. However, I don't think people should feel pressured to do so, especially if they know that they have no idea what the heck their doing or if they're only doing it for cynical, disingenuous, cash-grabby reasons. But that's just me and I perfectly get how some people want any representation no matter how they get it just to have it even if i don't necessarily agree with it.

 

Discount female Indiana Jones in Marvel's Star Wars Comics, with edgy black Chewbacca and C3P0 knock-offs.

 

I don't think anyone should be pressured to add anything. And if I want to see people like me in comics I write them or buy them there's an entire indie black comics scene all over the place. Vote with your wallets I say.

 

I think sometimes it's done as a hip, trendy thing to do, or sometimes done as a forced marketing ploy like how so many big blockbusters now have some weird ass scene involving China in order to get those sweet, sweet Chinese moneys. That kinda makes me look sideways.

Then again, Sam Jackson Fury was probably the best decision Marvel ever made, so what the hell do I know?

 

She’s a bit better than that. She’s definitely not the worst post Disney cannon character. She’s also not the best.

Pre Dark Cybertron both MTMtE and RiD were on fire. Those along with LSotW might be the high point of the IDW run. Barber was killing it with his noir take on post war Cybertron and Roberts has a really solid opening 22 issues.

The books all struggled post Dark Cybertron. MTMtE and LL have their moments still and finish strong. RiD and OP deteriorates to the point OP is almost unreadable at the end. Windblade and TAAO has its ups and downs.

 

I wasn’t going to post because I’ve had super strong feelings about MtMtE and LL, that are pretty well documented.

Just one observation: I don’t post often (and I’m not the most interesting person in the world), and I lurk a lot, and my job makes me travel a lot, sometimes to places that don’t allow this site. Either way, I’ve noticed an ebb and flow, and the most recent flow is that the vast majority of posters who loved these two titles have drifted away, while the people who were ambivalent to cold toward the book more or less stayed. It’s not a hard and fast rule, but just a general observation.

That leads me to a few observations. First, it appears to me the majority of the people who read the book weren’t necessarily pre-existing Transformers fans but identified with the book, read it, commented on it while it was ongoing, and when it ran its course, they left. No harm, no foul. There was another group who read it because they were fans of Transformers and came into the book with a different set of expectations than the new fans. Also, no harm, no foul. Second, those new readers drove sales, and Roberts is many things, one of which is capable of reading his audience, reading them well, and writing what they wanted to read. Third, there was and is a distinct conflict between people who read the comics because they were Transformers fans and those who read the books because they were fans of the title or fans of Roberts.

So, all that to say, there was a lot of complex feelings surrounding Roberts and these titles. Were they good? I’d say the first few arcs were great - great Transformers and great fiction. But they stopped being that and became something else. I can honestly say they stopped being good Transformers stories. They may have still been good stories, and that’s a matter of opinion. What is harder to argue is that these titles truly started bringing out the nasty in people, and that’s unfortunate.

My opinion? I think it’s good these titles ended. While some of these series were great Transformers and fiction, most were not. They are okay as a whole, but not great, though some were phenomenal as individual issues and arcs in some cases. However, I don’t think they are “the golden age,” though they certainly increased exposure of the brand. So, good and bad.

 

Still better than AHM, Costa, and IDW2. Even with its flaws. I’d take it back anyday.

 

That’s all fair. I think it’s very fair to say that IDW Phase Two as a whole expanded the brand in a way Hasbro really hasn’t seen in a while. Much of this brand is either nostalgia based adults (me) or the constant churn of kids 8-12 (my kids). With these books we got something that branched out the brand.

That has its ups and downs. Nostalgia based fans tend to just want more of the same and get grumpy if things change. That’s a huge part of what’s wrong with Star Wars Fandom. But if we don’t expand out to new groups of fans, it all folds up and dies. Balancing those two forces is hard.

 

Eh, as much as I enjoyed a few moments in early MTMTE I'm not sure any moment in particular matched Megatron's heart-to-heart with Starscream about how Starscream will lead the Decepticons one day and that Megatron respects him in AHM. That moment resonated with me more than any MTMTE moment.

That was a side of Decepticon Megatron I really wanted to see more of and why I liked the ROM crossover so much; Starscream was there shitting on the coneheads verbally but when it got and hot and heavy he, the Coneheads, and Astrotrain genuinely cared about one another and had some great camaraderie.

We got a little taste of that in MTMTE when Tarn tested Dethsaurus' loyalty to his own troops. I was really looking forward to seeing that be developed but nothing ever came of it, unfortunately.

I really wanna see that in IDW2. We'll see.