Hmmmmm...
The way you worded: "the matrix wanted to..."
Makes it sound like the matrix is a life form. Definately the case in g1 comics. (If my memory serves me correct....i believe in the g1 comics....the matrix was or could be more dark or evil.....and could create life out of non living metalic objects)

My guess is that in animation....the matrix is more like a device with artificial intelligence. It seems to be receptive to only a select few autobots. It is a medium that has some incredible powers. It can mutate and change certain autobots into more powerful beings. It is associated with enabling leadership. It can be used as a medium to communicate with spirits of long dead autobot primes that holded the matrix in the past. And... it can unleash destructive or powerful energy.

 

Yeah, but still... considering the "power of the matrix", it shouldn't run out like that... if the shield is produced by it, it shouldn't go away so easily after just a few shots. The matrix is powerful enough to reformat Hot SHot, and destroy Unicron, and later cure a madness illness across the universe but can't handle a few more pew-pew-pews?

Yeah, but sticking to just the G1 animation.. it's all opened to interpretation. So it goes back to plot device and nothing more... no different to Star Trek where all solutions consist of reversing the polarity.

 

Except there’s no solid evidence Optimus was given the matrix when he was rebuilt by Alpha trion

Sure looks like it did considering how quickly Optimus was throwing him around, how long did you say that was?
......about 3 seconds.....

sorry bud, an effective tackle in a fight that might lead to Megatron having an advantage should have kept his Opponent down a bit longer

Sounds like a failed attempt to me

And again this is NOT a ethical judgement......It is strictly a strategic judgment in a fight

And thank you for your advice are usually do my best to stay out of physical confrontations but there are many occasions in which where they are almost unavoidable

But “Fighters” with rage and recklessness can be Extremely clumsy and not focused, Sometimes stumbling under their own feet to reach their target, if you are ever in an unavoidable fight situation with such an individual Trying a raged fueled tackle, My advice to you would be to try and step out of his way.......You might see him fall flat on his face

You are 1,000,000% right
You are 1,000,000,000% right
In fact you are right to infinity numbers

See the mistake you made with me a lot is that you think I am having a biased position or that I’m playing favorites to one particular character when I am most certainly not

Many many fans blame hot rod for prime dieing, but the only person to blame for Optimus dieing is Optimus himself

He knows what kind of dangerous,tricky and dishonorable character Megatron was, Optimus was 100% stupid for not pulling the trigger when he had the opportunity

He lucked out and still won the fight but his stupidity lost in his life, not to mention that it could have gotten every single person he cared for killed if he hadn’t gotten in that one last lucky punch

He was 100% stupid and And reckless

And you’re right Megatron does deserve a point for taking advantage of that stupidity, although he did do it under handedly that is what he does best, but we already gave him that point when we started this Assessment

this is what you said:Megatron grabs a gun plus uses hot rod as a shield and hostage. He fires 4 lethal shots on optimus (4 points since there are 4 shots that hit prime)
Shot 1 hit prime in abs
Shot 2 and 3: again in stomach area.
Shot 4: hit prime in headlizing on

and I replied with :For the record I refuse to give megatron Individual points for each shot he took while holding a hostage

1) they were all part of one over all action

So he already got that point for Taking advantage of primes stupidity, so he doesn’t get another one now, so no change in the score

It’s fighting tactical device not ethical, and you’re right there’s no evidence of that here because Megatron had no control of his emotions and attacked recklessly

so, not only have You failed to make your point, You pretty much made mines

Megatron was on his ass soon after his tackle move, that alone shows that megatrons attack was not good or Advantageous to him.

You just contradicted yourself

Earlier you said that the image was too blurry and you could not make out his hands and what they were doing largely based on his canon being in the way.......And yet now you are claiming that you can clearly see that Megatrons was not holding onto anything

Changing gears like that in a debate doesn’t win you win any points, In fact it counts as a fail

and you are wrong





You can clearly see that Megatron’s hand was closed and gripping onto primes upper back

You were the one that claimed they were autobots there to make a point.....And now you’re trying to double back on that claim Because you can’t prove your point

How were they unwanted intruders?
Unicron went out of his way to eat some of them.... Intentionally.Sorry again buddy but you haven’t made any point

Sure you can assume that, but you know what they say about making assumptions

Besides that you claimed it was a fact, but you failed to provide any proof positive of that Claim

nSo wrong

Because you are willfully being blind

This is when they first hit the ground...You can see primes upper back is Angles in such a way that it would be the first thing to hit the ground of his body




And now the impact on the ground

.
And now the close-up


Do you see the dust being kicked up?
That’s The point of impact on the ground

And that’s his upper back and shoulders hitting the ground and you can clearly see that his lower back is still a bit in the air

Wrong again

Of course you do you need the ego stroke

So tell me this, if he expected Galvatron to get rid of any “virus”......Why wasn’t Galvatron already hard at work,Getting rid of the virus, before hot rod came on the scene?

why wasn’t Galvatron getting rid of the other robots/unwanted intruders already inside of Unicron?

Again you need to ego stroke but let’s see how you answer the questions above

 

As much as I like to believe that OP won the fight but given the time gap between him dying and Megatron getting jettisoned out of astrotrain. Then going on to have a chat with Unicron after floating about in space for a decent amount of time and getting reformatted. 86 fight went to Megatron

 

Can I ask you why you think dieing after a fight is something to even consider as relevant?

particularly when the question only pertains to the fight itself and not what happened afterwards

 

It's not a boxing or MMA fight that has judges with scoring cards. It's a street fight. Fight to the end. Fight to the death. Etc etc.
The conversation has gone in directions that didn't cross my mind when I posed it. I thought I would be the only to vote Megatron lol.
Victory isn't clear cut when mortal enemies are involved.
Meg's fought a dirty fight. Prime kept it clean. It got him killed. Id argue the the double fist upper cut blow Prime delivered didn't cause the main damage to Megatron, it was the fall. Yet he was still defiant when facing Unicron. Had Megatron known that if he stood his ground and gotten "eaten" by Unicron there's a good chance he would survived like Jazz, Bee and Spike. Lots of what ifs of course.
But hey everyone is interpreting the fight as they see it.
Maybe if I asked who won the fight between Prime and Megs in the first Bay movie, I think majority would've said Megatron as well.

 

I am right? thats the first time i heard you say anything like that. I am probably speaking to an imposter. This can not be. Wait....i got it. Its because i used your logic. Now you can claim to be the author of righteousness.
Anyway. I prefer my method of measurement. A point for every hit that did damage.
Prime scored 6.
1 megatron gets slammed against wall
2. Megatron gets punched in head
3. Megatron gets uppercutted
4. Megatron gets slammed/thrown to ground
5. Megatron gets double handed cross punched.....
6. Which sends him flying over a cliff....he falls around 72 feet to the ground
Megatron scored 8
1. Prime gets tackled and pinned
2. Prime gets speared in abs by a sharp object
3. Prime gets slashed by a short lightsaber
4. Prime gets dropped kicked
5 prime gets shot in abs
6. Prime get shot in stomach
7. Prime gets shot in stomach again
8. Prime gets shot in face

Then their is attempted strikes but which missed or failed.

I might give prime 1 point for a brief bear hug he gave megatron. It did no damage but he took nice control with this move.

Megatron on the otherhand..
1. A point for one fusion canon blast attempt
2. Another fusion canon blast attempt..2 points
3. A flying samuri slice attempt .... 3 points
4. A sweep attempt...4 points

Megatron launched way more attempted attacks and actual strikes as well

In foolishness:

You say megatrons first strike was foolish. (I dissagree...i say it was well done.) But even if we assume your logic.....the foolishness of prime was far greater. He hesitated to finish the fight. Those 2 or so seconds cost him victory and his life...
So prime wins here in foolishness.

Either way you look at it...the results say megatron won.

I do not clearly see. But yes.... his hand seems to be gripping primes upper back while airborn. .
Upon impact to the floor...he does not seem to have a grip. Your evidence does show that megatrons hands and maybee his lower forearms too....did hit the ground...


but.....
The dust cloud surrounds primes back mainly....
Then there are those sparks. The origins of the sparks are most numerous around optimus primes lower back.

In this frozen picture prime is still technically airborne...
But he must be mere micro seconds away and milliliters away from impact to the ground.
At impact we can see dust and energon sparks all around primes lower back.

All you proved was that megatron may have had some kind of grip while airborne.....and that his arm did touch the ground...

So what? What difference does that make?

I do not know.

We are not actually told unicrons motives in swallowing galvatron up alive. We know that he reacted only when galvatron started to blast him.
My best guess is that ideas came to his mind at that moment...

As soon as galvatron first appears inside unicron....it is within seconds that unicrons voice and torture manifests. And whats the instructions? To destroy hot rod.....
Why? Not because of any matrix. I think it is reasonable to assume it was because he was like a foreign virus inside unicron....and unicron wanted him destroyed. All of unicrons insides also behaved this way towards foreign bodies inside unicron.

 

I never really said it was a boxing match

And just to be clear.....a fight to the end...a fight to the death?...that was never really confirmed, it can be said every fight they had should have been to the end....it is a war after all

excusing Primes words when he reached the city as bravado.....he certainly would have never killed megatron if megs got knocked out

And even a street fight is normally judged by who was standing last at the fight......not who died later on

and even if you believe the fall did the greater damage and not the punch....the fall was still caused by the punch

It’s been too long since I saw that film

but from what I recall movie megatron was clearly in the better position in that fight

And that is a flat out lie.....I’ve told you several times you have been right, particularly in our last debate.....but only when you actually were

So let’s stop the nonsense

Your point measurement system is faulty , it awards points for Technical errors and missed moves not to mention sloppy ones

the degree of foolishness is irrelevant, and Megatron already got a point for Optimus’s mistake

Either way you look at it...the results say Optimus won.

I would disagree but anything is possible and besides that wasn’t the point you claim he had no grip whatsoever

And you were wrong

thank you.

On impacting the floor, the dust only is in the area of his upper back



And it still look to me like Megatron was gripping prine in this pic but I can let that one go

I can agree with that, but that pretty much proves my point even though you don’t seem to notice it

If he was attempting to get rid of a virus it would’ve been something that came to mind earlier

On the other hand if the idea only just came to his mind it was likely a result of the siding Galvatron need a punishment for firing on him

Correct, but Galvatron was already inside of Unicrons body for quite some time

And if the intention was to get rid of the virus he would’ve already given Galvatron instructions, which again indicates swallowing him had nothing to do with taking care of unwanted intruders

And yes he later orders Galvatron destroy hot rod.....Why?

Because of the matrix......because the matrix was “the one thing THE ONLY THING that could stand in his way”

as long as there was an autobot near the matrix, Unicron was at risk....Unicron may not have known HotRod was the chosen one, but he knew he had to make sure that the matrix never fell into the hands of any autobot again because he might be destroyed

unicron did not order Galvatron to destroy every “Forein body” inside him.....only Hotrod.....Why?

because Hotrod landed near the matrix......and that’s a risk he could not
Allow

 

Bad logic.....very bad....anything is certainly NOT possible.

I only agree that their was a grip because the evidence you presented shows a grip while both are airborne.
But this shows what? Nothing. Are you using this to actually make an argument? Apperently not.

both warriors might still actually be airborne here. In physics by the way.....you do not need contact to draw up force that draws up a dust cloud. The wind caused by the velocity of 2 flying bodies in close proximity to the ground can do that. megatrons hands could also be touching the floor here. It could even be his fusion cannon. Whatever the truth.....this detail does not seem to be really significant.

Lightning bolts or electric currents have points of origin and they behave like veins and plant roots that go all over the place. If you get megatrons arm out of the way....the points all come from optimus primes back. (Not megatrons arm....his upper arm in this area of interest is not touching the floor)
If we slowed down time and played this fall in super slow motion.....we see that optimus primes upper back hit first......followed up by his lower back. Sparks begin as small....but eventually grow large and surround the 2 warriors.
Are you making any point with all this? It seems irrelevant. Unless you are going somewhere with all this...i am droping this irrelevant issue about the tackles nature.

It was not that long ....before unicron communicated with galvatron.

Ooooh my.....you got to be more careful...
You made a big error. Galvatron had the matrix. So the order to destroy hot rod had nothing to do with the matrix.
Galvatron had the matrix even when swallowed. Hot rod is way weaker than galvatron. The g1 toy tech spek says his strength is 6. While galvatrons strength is 10. Pretty similar in the g1 animation world too.

Proximity.

I could agree with this. But the movie clearly also shows that unicron was concerned with foreign tresspassers within him.

 

This is fiction, Anything the writers choose to write into the story is certainly possible

So it’s your logic that is bad....very bad

It shows that you were wrong when you said megatron was not gripping optimus

And since my goal here was to show you you were incorrect, I have succeeded

Except that when you slow down the video you could see this is when the skit began and the rest of their body spell to the same level position

So no they were not still airborne, I will give you credit for a very creative attempt here but no cigar

That information was offered to disprove your claim that it was his lower back to touch the ground first first, so yes it’s relevant to that

The problem with that thinking is that Megatron’s arm was actually covering up that part of primes back when it hit the ground



.As you can see by the yellow marker, primes back is still off the ground, the shadow on the floor marked in yellow proves that

now look at the red marked area.....that is the fist/Knuckle of Megatron’s hand, It was the first thing to impact the ground, and also the point of origin of the electricity

Sorry bud but you are just dead wrong......That shadow proves it

real world time it was 2 minutes from the time Galvatron entered Unicrons mouth and the time Unicron Communicated with Galvatron

And two minutes is actually a pretty long time When you think about it, besides that there’s a good chance that was some time lapse photography going on here

Did I really? Let’s examine the events

Yes Galvatron had the matrix.......And how did the events actually play out?

Hot rod gets the matrix, is transformed into Rodimus and proceedes to destroy Unicron

So where is my mistake?
Unicrons order to destroy Hotrod was to prevent the possibility of the matrix falling into the hands of an autobot that could possibly kill him

that’s Unicrons entire reason for “offering” Megatron that deal......to prevent the matrix from being used to kill him

exactly
Hotrod was very much weaker, and Unicron knew that, so why bother telling him to kill Hotrod when there are stronger autobots around.....Kup,Springer,Ultra Magnus......

Galvatron having the matrix at the time was Irrelevant to the situation,he ordered Galvatron to kill Hotrod because Hotrod was the only autobot In close proximity to the matrix at that particular moment and he feared what would happen if he got his hands on the matrix

Which is exactly what happened
Thanks for proving my point again

and how was that clearly shown?
1)Did he say to anybody get the intruders out of me?
2)Did he express any Disgust about having introduce inside of him?
3)and if he was concerned with foreign bodies inside him, how would adding yet another foreign body into his system Handel that problem.....no less a Foreign body he already knew he could not trust and try to kill him twice

In fact it wasn’t until near the end of the film when they were fighting inside his stomach doesn’t even seem to notice there were any foreign bodies inside of him

Sorry buddy but that is a complete and absolute failure of an argument

On the other hand throughout the movie he expresses great fear of the matrix and how it could harm him, On many occasions he Orders Galvatron to complete the job of destroying the matrix....And that was made quite clear

also this is from the scripts basic lay out

If you can’t read what it says I can spell it out for you

But it proves that the writers intend it that it was fear of the matrix that motivated Unicron to order the killing of Hotrod


And as I said that was made

 

Please Ignore Me.
Optimus Died. Megatron Lived. For me I think that's a easy wing for Bucket Head.
Again. Ignore me.

 

I'd say megatron technically won, but Optimus definitely had it if Hot Rod didn't jump in.

 

I was not talking about the writers. Why are you focused on this extetnal issue that is outside your jurisdiction? I am talking about interpreting works of art of artists. (Not artists themselves) unlimited possibilities implies that everything is true or false. ....very bad logic..

Incorrect yes....but this detail is irrelevant. Are you just concerned with showing my incorrectness? Too bad you are not concerned with establishing some kind of argument which makes a good point or shows a good truth.

I did say "possibly" i remained open to your idea. Even if you are correct about this detail....what are you trying to prove with this?

Okay. You convinced me of this detail. If we freeze time super slowly ....into micro seconds....the upper back hits the ground first....followed by the lower back.
What are you trying to prove?

If its a shadow. It could be of megatron.
And I only see primes legs as not completly flat on the floor. Furthermore, backs of humans or transformers are not perfectly straigh and flat. Humans have curves and robots like prime have backpacks.

The evidence in the red marker is poorly interpreted. Only one spark of electricity reaches megatrons hand. But there are at least 4 spark bolts (depicted as electric light blue lines)....that surround optimus primes back.
Again...why are you so focused on these trivialities?

2 minutes is not a long time at all! Considering the fact that unicrons body is planet sized. Even if like a small planet...thats still huge territory....

You jumped right to the end of the movie.
I thought the issue of interest here was unicrons motives for swallowing galvatron.

The mistake is your flawed reasoning. Hot rod was not in possession of the matrix. Galvatron was .....(at the time unicron decided to swallow galvatron.) I do not think unicron had powers to see the future.

Unicron never claimed the matrix could kill him. (He believed it was the only thing that could stand in his way. He even showed no fear of the matrix at one point. You are stating a fact that did happen only at the end of the movie. Technically, even that is not a fact....because unicron did not die.

And i repeat i accept that explanation of unicrons motives. But my argument is also valid. Unicron was concerned about things going on inside him.

You are a rebel. No one needs to say anything to prove something. Although that does count. Are you saying unicron was not concerned about what was going on inside him?

Your reasoning here is very poor.
...we are shown that inside unicron....that he had a variety of security and defensive mechanisms that immidiately attack and foreign body in unicron.
We are shown a kind of pit of lava designed to terminate foreign bodies.
We are shown behaviour of unicron that shows concern about tresspassers inside him. He looks at his own stomach for instance during the big battle against all the cybertronians.
He tells galvatron to kill hot rod. (And galvatron held the matrix ....plus is stronger than hot rod) logic says this was not all about the matrix. Unicron wanted the Autobot virus eliminated. (Regardless of the matrix). But like i said....close proximity to the matrix could also be a great cause of concern as well.

 

Outside my jurisdiction? I don’t even know what you’re talking about their

I spoke about the Writers because we are talking about the film, which is a written work of fiction
You said not everything is possible and In a written work of fiction everything is possible As long as the Writers want it to be....so you have very bad logic..

”Oh I must be talking to an imposter, you never admit beinging wrong”

See how that silly that sounded
Anyway no I’m truly not too concerned with how you see this at all or whether you are right on the facts, you were the one who stooped to that level earlier

As to my argument, , I’m not perfect but I normally pick what a claim to be accurate very carefully, I’ve provided evidence proving every single statement I made, too bad you’re not up to that test

If that’s not obvious by now you obviously haven’t been paying attention to the conversation

it is a shadow and It’s likely both of their shadows since one is on top of the other, either way it proves prime was not ruching the ground yet because if he was on the ground we Could not see the shadow beneath

And it just wasn’t his legs, it was his legs, but and lower back that was still lifted since the shadow extends that far

By you maybe, because it completely proves your argument wrong

The one spark of electricity starts at megatrons hand .... And then travels and multiplies throughout both bodies

His hand was the original point

BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT THEM ALL UP

You were the one who brought up all of these so-called little Trivial things trying to Prove your argument when you were giving points hit for hit. That’s right you were the one who brought them all up, you were the one who tried to use this as evidence,

And now that it’s all failed to prove your argument you want to try to change gears and claim you’re focusing on other things

The hell it ain’t, Ever been in a life or death emergency? Every second feels like an eternity, and two minutes long forget about it

again, you were the one to bring up the order to destroy Hotrod and that Unicron had no fear of the matrix

I’m just replying to your post, that mistake is your flawed debating skills

That’s actually something to consider. In The G1 comics, Unicron could see into the futures, and even bring people from those futures to the Present

I can’t Say that the cartoon version had the same ability but he certainly knew enough to know the matrix was a danger to him

He knew it each could stop him he knew it could hurt him......And that caused him to fear the matrix

That’s close enough.....And by the end of the film he was nothing but a head again that’s close enough

How can it be valid if you’ve provided absolutely no evidence that even suggest it’s a possibility?

If you’d like you can try to find some evidence that at least supports the thinking but so far you haven’t posted any

You Do you like to pass judgments.....But it never helps you

If you are going to claim that Unicron was Concerned with what was going on inside him then you’re going to have to provide a reason for that line of thinking

And why would he be concerned with what was going on inside him at that moment?Jazz and the others Causing any damage, they weren’t performing any activities.

In fact they were exactly in a very safe place as part of his “digestive system.” /Smoking pit.They were being held captive inside of his stomach just like people from every other planet he’s ever eaten, at the moment he swallowed Galvatron everything was going on like it should inside his stomach

Your reasoning For thinking he was concerned with what was going on inside of his body is not only Extremely poor, what is completely devoid of any logic at all

you are right we are shown that inside a variety of security and defensive mechanisms that immidiately attack and foreign body in unicron.........And it looks like they had already done their job when it came to jazz and the others because they are already being held at the smelting pits

So why would he need to swallow galvatron to take care of the tresspassers inside him When his internal defense systems already did the job?.

oh yeah I forgot to mention one thing,Jazz And the others had already been inside his stomach for at least two days, So if he was concerned with them being inside why would he wait so long to do something about it?

Sorry your argument is not valid

He only swallowed Galvatron to punish him or get him out of the way, he later. He tells galvatron to kill hot rod , and only Hotrod because he was an autobot In close proximity to the matrix.And he couldn’t take the risk of allowing an auto bot to get his hands on the matrix

The galvatron held the matrix and that Hotrod is weaker are useless points to make since none of that prevented Hotrod from getting the matrix

That might be one of the weakest point you ever made

All that proves ,Logically, that it was all about the matrix. At the time Unicron swallows galvatron there wasn’t any autobots inside him to be considered a threat because they were already Restrained at the smelting pit

Game set and match[/quote]

 

Why focus on the personhood of a writer? Are you one? Do you know one? What they where thinking some 35 years ago.....okay its evidence. But its much better to focus on the actual art work itself. It's like a toy review. Do you care for the makers mentality and intentions? I mean sure... it is relevant (example: what the creators of haslab unicrons motives are....but i think having the toy and judging it for oneself is superior.)

What i mean is that i care much more about the plot of the movie.....much more than the intentions of writers....some of who might not even be alive now for all we know.

So what? Prime is still the looser here. He got tackled and pinned.

All these details you wish to prove does not support your argument that prime is in some kind of advantage. He got tackled. He got hurt. He got pinned. All these details do nothing to support your delusions.

This is exactly your inferior style. You focus on every detail of what i say. And attempt to refute it. But you do not make very good original arguments of your own. The only thing you did was say megatron was reckless. Yet the evidence shows him tackling, hurting, and pinning prime. A great move and attack against his hated foe.

Yes thats correct.

Correct.

I am not going to repeat myself again.

Why don't you just provide your counter argument: that unicron was not concerned about what happens inside him.

I did. Twice i believe...i gave you many actually. You might as well provide your alternative counter argument.

Hey great. You actually did acknowledge my argument somewhat.

You are repeating this again. And again i tell you i aknlowledge this. What you need to do is prove unicron is not concerned about his insides. I suppose by your logic unicrons immune system must have some other design? Since it can not be about internal security according to you.

You can not prove that. The movie does not focus on other characters. Does not mean they where not there. We are shown that many other souls where there....very breifly....but it can be seen.

 

I actually appreciated this section of your post so I want to thank you very much......But I’m sure you will see some childish attempt at an insult before I finish reading this post

I guess I’m a bit more overly analytical and most other people, and sure I care about the finished product, whether it be Art ,music, Film.....or Whatever

But once I have an appreciation for that piece of art (I like/love it) I find it impossible not to wonder what the artist was thinking of when he produced the art, What era was he living in, what culture.....the state of affairs If society at that particular moment.

Knowing these type of things usually helps answer these “what if “conversations and debates that go on on fansites like this one

So what?
Prime is still the WINNER of the fight
One tackled does not determine any fight
and he was never pinned.

[quite]All these details you wish to prove does not support your argument that prime is in some kind of advantage[/quote]

The amount of time it took Orime to throw megatron proves that argument

He was not pinned, He got tackled. He got hurt and he recovered and threw Megatrons around in just a few seconds

if the tackle was truly a successful one then Prime would not have recovered and gotten the upper hand so quickly

Just like I predicted that the childish behavior and insults

Such behavior is not going to give any support so you’re losing arguments

There it is again more childish and weak behavior , What a shame

Let’s look at your style, You make claims of facts you failed to back up, You rely on your faulty memory and fail to do research to make sure you know what you’re talking about, and you will fully deny facts that have been provided to you......And not just buy one person here on the side

your debating/argument skills break down do insults And claims of your superiority

All of this is the behavior of a very weak ego

[quite]The only thing you did was say megatron was reckless. [/quote]’

because he was
Yea he tackles Prime , but he fails to press the advantage due to the nature of that reckless tackle
the evidence shows Prime very quickly recovered and threw Megatrons across the field

If the tackle was A great move/attack Prine would not have recovered that quickly, Megatron should have been able to keep him down more then a few seconds

It was a sloppy tackle, which failed to give him a position of advantage and he does not deserve a point for it

That’s fine, but it’s not like you provided anything that came close to suggesting your theory had any merit

I already did....In a nutshell , there was nothing fir him to be Concerned about at the time he swallowed Galvatron

Whatever robots were inside of him at the time we’re already in his body for at least 2 days and had already been dealt with by his automatic defense systems

They were not free to do any damage

Actually you really didn’t, Yeah you mentioned all the defense systems to deal with foreign bodies but You didn’t seem to not notice the inherent flaw of that argument

Those defense systems do not prove that he was concerned with foreign bodies because they are no different then the auto immune system your body has.....

And while you might be concerned with foreign bodies in your system, the existence of your auto immune system does not prove that you yourself are concerned

Because your auto immune system is not something you have any control of and it seems likewise for Unicron

There’s no reason to assume Unicron would be in conscious control of his immune system

I have addressed everything you said

[quite]What you need to do is prove unicron is not concerned about his insides.[/quote]Actually that’s not how the art of debate works

The art of debate:101, If you make a claim and call it a fact, It fall for you to be able to prove it is actually affect

And I actually already just approved your statement

While you might be concerned with foreign bodies within your innards, having an Immune system does not prove that you are concerned about the issue

Your immune system is out of your control and operate freely to defend your body from the inside, at least when it’s working correctly since sometimes it doesn’t and actually causes illness

There’s no reason to assume it’s not the same with Unicron , his immune system would not be something he would be knowing in control of. There’s no reason to assume it would not be the same as it is with us

There was even a season 2 episode that showed us Megatrons had a similar Immune system, and that one was out of his control to since it was active when he was unconscious

The existence of an immune system is not proof that the individual is concerned with foreign bodies at any given time

Well I’m sure I can I don’t need to because you haven’t come close to making your argument

As I said none of them were free to do any damage
Even the characters we know had been there for sometime already
They were all on track to being destroyed in the smelting pits of his digestive system

There is absolutely zero evidence that there were any other people running around the rest of his body

And even if you want to claim it’s a possibility it would be a stretch, the only loose and free robot we saw Running loose entered his body by different means Then the ones we see in his digestive system

Again you made us claim, it’s on you to provide a logical to consider it a possibility.......Something that at the very least is suggested by what we saw in the film, and an automatic immune system does not prove your line of thinking

 

To dicect this battle in it basic form let us look at what was happening.
The What: Optimus and his army of Autobots were prepping to take back Cybertron. The Decepticons control the Planet its self so driving them off and securing the whole planet takes a great number of resources. That is what Autobot City was for. Autobots do not have the Decepticons Space bridge tech, so shuttles were the only way to get the necessary energy, troops and weapons to Optimus.
The Plan: Megatron took the opportunity to strike the shuttle to get close enough to Autobot City to kill as many Autobots and trash if not ransack the city and go back to Cybertron. With Optimus'es supplies cut off, and Lazerbeaks lintel were to strike. Megatron can take the full force of the Decepticons to the moon bases and kill all the Autobots off. Even if the Autobots put the Decepticons in retreat, The Autobots would be weakened with no resupply and extra troops and the Decepticons have the a Whole Planet to go back to. Resupply, fix themselves up and take more troops to finish the Autobots off.
However they forgot to fix the hole they put in the shuttle and did not get as close as they wanted. Megatron was badly wounded even Daniel could have offed him. The Decepticons won the battle by accomplishing there initial mission. They still razed the city, killed a lot of troops, killed the leader of the enemy troops(Bonus) and during the retreat had 0 fatalities. Sure several of them were kicked off Astrotrain latter, but No deaths on the Decepticons side during the battle and the ones kicked off could have survived if they made it back to Cybertron.
Aftermath: Cybertron is still under Decepticon control. Autobot City crippled, supplies cut off to the main troops, too many troops KIA and moral in a all time low with news of Optimus death. The Autobots cannot make an attack on the Decepticons let alone take back the planet. With out Unicrons interference the Decepticons had essentially won.

 

I could for him which agree with all of this, If the question was who won the battle at autobot city

 

Okay.
But...where do you find a personal insult? I was making a point that had nothing to do with your personhood. The only thing involving your personhood was that i stated that i believed your focus was on less important things like an artist......instead of the artwork itself. Yet you call me childish for that? Who is doing the insulting?

No doubt about it. The tackle was successful. Prime fell to the ground. That achieves a tackles goal. You have a bit of a case with the pin though. You emphasize that since the scene switched to hotrod and kup for 3 seconds we technically can not say optimus was pinned. My responce to this: listen to hotrods words for the giveaway evidence: "we got to help prime" he said. Help prime? From what? From a dissadvantageous situation. He was pinned down!

Your interpretation is false. And my argument is superior. Unlike you i submit to truth. But you are more focused on winning a contest against me.....thus your focus is in refuting my arguments....rather than producing good arguments.

I backed up all my claims. Way more than you.
I agree with you that my memory is faulty. But my focus is on truth.... (not my memory.) If you state a fact and have good proofs to back it up....i will not deny it. And i have allready demonstrated that on several occassions. So you are wrong about me.

Prime recovering had nothing to do with the tackle. To keep someone down is more to do with a pin. And i never disputed the fact that megatrons pin on prime was not the greatest. My argument was that it was a pin. If megatron had a really good pin, then obviously prime would not have gotten out of it.

Okay. Fine. Now you admit that unicron saw the matrix as a threat. And galvatron began to attack unicron. Why did unicron not destroy both galvatron and the matrix on the spot? That would have demoralized decepticons way more effectively. Why is galvatron spared?

That was just one of my evidence that i presented.

It does operate automatically. But we can control it. Example one healthy lifestyle can lead to a better immune system. One can also be concerned about ones immune system.
Furthermore, one can take drugs to counter or destroy infections that are the cause of many illness. In unicrons case, the autobots inside him, even if tied up and preparred for melt down....can still be potential risks that could harm unicron. What if they escape? What if their where others that where on the loose?

I allready stated that this is false. My position is that we can take control of our immune system. Their is sciences (medicine or pharmacology), that is specifically focused on such things.

Yes. But megatron was drunk, unaware, caught off guard, and sleeping, at the moment. Obviously not in any condition to care about his well being or autobot viruses running around in his body.

To repeat: unicron swallowed galvatron alive. Why would he do that? I say galvatron was being used as if a drug or an antibody.
Unicron....during his battle against all of cybertron actually looked at his belly area and displayed behaviour of concern.
Unicron voice and presence was even inside his own body. He said to galvatron: "destroy him now (hotrod) ....or you your self will be obliterated" this shows unicron desired galvatron to be alive for some purpose. It was not because of the matrix here. Because galvatron allready possesed it. He was focused on something else when he swallowed galvatron alive with the matrix.

Only thing that is absolutely zero is your openmindedness. Can you prove your counter argument.....that their was not anybody else running around inside unicron?
You have a point about immune systems as automatic. But i have a point that individuals can and often do get concerned and intervene and affect their immune systems.

 

The insults came later in your post Not in this section.Your comments about inferiority and delusions were the insults

....That’s right the tackle failed To keep prime down for any significant amount of time, and Megatron failed to take advantage of a position that should have been beneficial to him

The tackle was less then successful.

Boy that was a real stretch

Hot rod couldn’t see what was going on at that time, than we could, he was too far away and ad a lower level so there’s no way at all he could tell if Optimus was pinned

he wanted to help prime because prime was his hero And because anything can happen in a fight

How was my interpretation falls when you just now again proved it right by trying to suggest your argument is superior once more?

Only a person who is extremely insecure and has a week personality always brags about being superior.If it wasn’t for all the insults I would almost feel sorry for you

Continue to believe that if it helps your ego

The bottom line is all you have posted is your opinion and interpretation and no solid fats, and a few pieces of evidence from the film we’re actually of no help to you

Sure it does because the tackle was intended to Cause enough damage to keep him down for a bit and it failed to do that

Excuse me what are you talking about?How am I admitting that now when that was something I said from the very beginning?

Unicron was always afraid of the matrix And what He autobots can do with it

Covered that along time ago
1) he wanted to punish galvatron not destroy him
2)There is no reason to assume he could have destroyed the matrix if he tried

I already told you that the demoralizing thing was more of a second option and not my main point, besides that your conclusion has a major flaw

Quite often when you kill the leader of a group you end up making him a martyr, which has a tendency to reinvigorate his followers instead of demoralizing them

Actually it was the only thing that could be called evidence because it was actually something in the film

Everything else you present it was just your opinion on it

You just contradicted yourself and you don’t even see how

You said that we can control it the word can here is a statement of Absolute fact

Then you said a healthy lifestyle Can lead to a better immune system
The word can is a statement of possibility not of fact

Bottom line you can’t back up your claim again

Eating healthy and taking meds don’t always necessarily lead to a better immune system the best you can hope for is that it might improve but there’s no certainty about it

So using your analogy why take that pill a few days later? Why not do something about it earlier?

I already told you that’s incorrect.

There actually is no way that you can absolutely to take control of your immune system.Meds and diet do not always affect change

The best you can do is hope that your immune system might get stronger if you eat better and if you take certain supplements or pharmaceuticals but there’s no way to guarantee it’s going to work

In fact There are many many cases in which were healthy diets medications and supplements have led to illnesses and even death

I actually lost my kidneys due to medicines and a died that were designed to help with my immune system

Which is completely a relevant to what we’re talking about.His immune system still reacted to the foreign bodies in his system automatically just as what happened inside of Unicron

To repeat: the evidence indicates unicron swallowed galvatron to punish him further......Punishing him with something he did several times in the film before
A nice slow torturous death for the slave that betrayed him once too often and even openly attacked him

Yeah I pointed that out already did you forget?

At this point he actually had far more autobots in his body , Running around loose,that were fighting his immune system

And this was well after he swallowed Unicron , so this doesn’t help your argument at all

, right and he didn’t tell galvatron to killed all the autobot inside his body...only Hotrod this shows unicron desired to have Hotrod killed because he was an autobot that was far too close to the matrix ....the only thing he feared the entire film

galvatron having the matrix is irrelevant because there was always a good chance that hotrod could get the matrix because of his proximity to it.

which is exactly what happened a short while later

Again, that’s not how debating works

lesson 1 in a debate
Person A makes a claim calling it a fact when it’s only their opinion
(That’s you by the way because you made the claim)

Person B (me in this case) provides a counterpoint based on what we actually see and here in the film

It’s now on Person A to provide proof positive of his claim with solid evidence from the film itself

not with what you think, not with info about how people take meds.....not even with your personal feelings about why a character did something...

you claimed it was a fact and now you have to prove it’s a fact.....

and you failed in that regard as you proved here....

If the actions a person takes “can” effect the Immune system then your original claim feel because you stated it can be controlled absolutely