I didn't think I really needed a new Astrotrain until I recently whipped out my Legends Astrotrain I bought early 2018 when I came back to collecting after a 5 year absence... At the time I was blown away by it...  

A year later I didn't realize how spoiled I have gotten with Siege.  

Legends Astrotrain (and Blitzwing) are absolute bricks in comparison to Siege Voyagers... No movement in the hips, ankles, and wrists!   How did that not bother me before?  

 

that's kinda funny, since Springer looks way more like a brick  
(as in, he is created entirely out of rectangular shapes)

 

Here's some size comparisons assuming siege astrotrain is around the new seeker height.

 

Oof.

 

Makes you wonder if Astrotrain wasn't a pre-tool for something else too...

S is best remembered for AC Gilbert's American Flyer trains of the 1940s-60s.

 

If it's helpful, here's a couple of screens from a review video as well:

Without "shoes"


With "shoes"


(source):

Spoiler

 

Funny to think that Jetfire is only thirty dollars more.

 

I can’t justify buying the Siege leaders at their price. I’ll wait for a sale.

 

Leader is the new Voyager.

 

except leaders still come with more stuff than voyagers and some older voyagers were just as short as siege voyagers

 

 
Okay. Because they haven't got ankle tilt you can't pose them.
Doesn't that say more about you than about the toys?
Honestly, the Titans Return toyline blows siege out of the water  
And it manages to give us so many characters we never had before while siege just gives us the 84 bums all over again  
I came back to collecting during CW and TR. I tried a few siege toys   but they just don't compare to the immensely superior quality of TR and CW   I bought maybe three mainline toys this year.

 

Classics Prime was a long time ago.
T30 established new sizes that siege just abandoned for no good reason.

 

micromasters, targetmasters, flywheels, impactor, power dashers, apeface, crosshairs, spinister, redwing, cog, chromia, sixgun, brunt, barricade, springer, ultra magnus, galaxy optimus prime, greenlight, lancer, hot shot, nightbird, slamdance, soundblaster and several others dont fit into the "84 bums all over again category", you have had a prejudice against siege from the very beginning and it is causing you to be blind to what the line has to offer

doesnt matter if it was a long time ago or not, the sizes have fluctuated several times since 2006, t30 established a smaller size for leaders than we had previously had and their deluxes were roughly the same size as siege sideswipe (or have you not handled t30 trailbreaker or scoop recently?)

 

There is no reasoning with these posters, it's every deluxe needs to be as tall as Universe II figures or get out. They don't seem to understand that line was the outlier and even then it wasn't every figure in that line. By the time RTS and Generations I came out they were already going back to smaller figures that they had previously.

 

yep, pretty much, dont know why i really bother except i hate it when people ignore facts

 

T30 established smaller Deluxes than the prior Classics Deluxes (which people weren't happy about either), then Primes Wars made them a bit taller again but all a uniform height. Here's a fun fact if you're using T30 as the benchmark for how big Generations TFs should; there was also a lot of variation in height in T30, just like Siege. It's true! It was most obvious in the Voyagers, but the Deluxes aren't all a uniform height either. So I guess what you're inadvertently saying is Siege is back on track with what T30 started!

 

Even Universe II didn't have super tall Deluxe figures. It was basically two molds that I think stood out in height: Sunstreaker/Sideswipe and the Datsuns. Everyone else was basically the same size as Deluxes still are (give or take a millimeter).

 

I've found the "Ignore" feature to be incredibly useful these days.

 

Except that siege Prime is an outlier size the same as Universe2 Sideswipe was back in the day. You are showing pictures of what used to be the shortest sized voyager (from then until now) with what is now the tallest voyager available. All voyagers in the past were that size or taller (often, but certainly not always taller). All voyagers except Prime and Megatron now are shorter than that, and we've never had them that small before.

Deluxes are similar, though maybe not as bad (though I still hate it). 5.5" was around the consistent height, with fluctuations through the years. Now they're under 5" as a norm, with outliers like the Ironhide/Ratchet/crosshairs mold now being the exception. Sure, you can find deluxes in the past about as short as Siege Sideswipe, but not cosistently. And I say about as, because most are still taller even by the littlest bit.

Again, it wasn't consistent. And that's the difference.

For the leader class? It's a jumble. A Magnus-type figure, regardless of size/height, certainly show in parts count and weight to be well worth the leader price point. On the flip side is Shockwave, who in hand is pure rip-off regardless of extra parts. People flustered with Astrotrain and the few little panels he comes with (I'll trade height for those panels any day....7" and I'm in) have a legitimate gripe. It has more than a voyager, more than even old voyagers had...but not by all that much. Even with his platform shoes he's shorter than that unarmored Prime. Who is not as tall as that Prime you pictured.

I'm not arguing about old vs. new leaders, simply because that's not what this line is doing. I certainly am not going to argue about people on this board swearing that Commander class Jetfire is the old leader size (that was never true) or that we haven't had height hits before. But this is now a consistently smaller line, which was not true in the past. Even with T30.

As time has gone on, I'm more open to analyzing my past figures and the ones I've skipped due to their sizes(such as the previously mentioned Trailbreaker). This certainly isn't all new, and I accept that. But acting like "we've done this all before" because of a few small figures here and there in the past isn't very genuine either. Just like comparing the shortest of voyagers with the new tallest of voyagers (again, only two in the line so far!) and pretending everything is the same isn't very fair. That all flies about as well as "leader is the new voyager," when you think about it. Saying "Everything is now CONSISTENTLY smaller, and that's not changing, so deal with it," is at least honest.

 

Siege prime isn’t an outlier because megatron is a bit taller than him. 2 of 5 voyager molds are in line with older voyagers