Transformers G1 created on Earth?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by DaTa1982, Jul 23, 2019.

  1. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    i don’t understand what you meant by saying he didn’t make a mistake, I didn’t say he did

    See I don’t consider anything an accident either but everything you just described I consider metaphysical manipulation.Now maybe I’m using the word incorrectly but it seems to me what we see him do, what you called “pushing the autobots awareness” , seems to be the kind of planning you would expect from someone or something of a higher power

    But, what we saw of Vector sigma in “the key to vector sigma” indicates that vs wasn’t very much more then Teletran 1 , aside from giving a life program that is. Which is why I feel there are 2 levels to what VS truly represents

    1)a god like being, maybe what’s left of Primus , or the name for Sunbows counterpart, that like in the marvel universe, after fighting Unicron throughout the astral plain trapped himself inside a metallic planetoid and began to reshape it into a planet getting it ready for the day of Unicrons return

    2) the glowing Spiracle shaped computer that the quints created to control what was left of “the god like being” and used him to mass produce the robots as merchandise to sell
     
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  2. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    I still hold the quote of Megatron "Show some respect" to Rumble as pivotal. MEGATRON of all said to show respect to something else.

    Plus Trion in the rebirth scolded Optimus for even daring to question VS motives.

    What I meant was that by your theory VS was a Quintesson shell program/manipulated to do their bidding, there was no reason for the Autobot rebellion. VS Programmed the Autobots. There is no possibility for something with abilities that can effectively predict/manipulate the future 9 millions in, to not be able to perceive that the Autobots would 'awaken' and rebel.
    We simply dont know "Before Cybertron was, I was". What does that mean we dont know. The only thing I know, is that the Matrix, the Quints, Unicron, Primacron and VS are linked.
     
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  3. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I’ve been accused of being a stickler to detail before but I’m not sure if you were using the word quote very loosely, and if you are please just clear that up and don’t feel i was insulting you

    but....MEGATRON said NO SUCH THING

    Transcript The Key to Vector Sigma:
    RUMBLE
    Vector Sigma? That's Vector Sigma?
    MEGATRON
    That's it! The megacomputer which gave us all life!
    RUMBLE
    You're puttin' me on.
    MEGATRON
    Silence, you ignorant idiot!

    I can agree he Chastised rumble

    And?
    I don’t see how that effects my theory

    I’ll get more into that in a sec.....
    I don’t think you are thinking “big picture” enough which I admit sounds funny when I say it

    First, vg would have been doing it’s thing far longer the 9 million years, I also don’t think it was so much that he “Predicted” the future but more that he had a vision and manipulated events to bring about what he wanted to happen

    And again, I’m suggesting that the glowing ball we saw in “the key to vector sigma” is a kin to a lock and chain holding someone down and forcing him to do the bidding of the guy with the key

    I’m assuming you know the story of Primus from the marvel comics and how it’s been expanded on.....in short I feel think that things were similar in the Sunbow universe

    A god like being (in marvel called Primus) was battling his counterpart(Unicron) through different realms.......Through physical dimensions and metaphysical dimensions (think of how professor X and Doctor Strange battle through the astral plane ),and near death crash’s into a planetoid.Weak he creates the first robots, not a large number, and it was their their job to help reshape the planet while the “god like being” slumbered and healed till the time Unicron returned, again like the marvel story

    Now this is where the Sunbow story deviates, while he slumbered the Quints discovered the planetoid and the robots.After rendering the robots inactive they find what’s left of the “god” at the center of this growing metallic world

    Learning what the “god” was from the examination of the robots, the devise a machine to control the “god” (the glowing globe) but the “god” sends his astral form into a higher plane leaving what was left of his physical self behind on the planet.

    The Quint machine was able to harness the powers of the “god” and the “god” was able to effect and manipulate events through his connection to what was left of his corporeal self that was connected to the quint machine

    I can fully agree on that
     
  4. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Meh, no offense taken, not the first and not the last time I missremember :p 

    I personally am vehemently against anything that has to do with religion and gods in the tf mythos (as a tidbit of info I am a religious person etc etc I just dont want to mix the two in scifi), that said we dont see any mention of Primus in the Toon. Unicron too was a construct.

    That said, I understood your theory, what I dont buy is this: You say that in sort 'enslaved' Primus power by using VS and in essence VS engineered the rebellion correct? Well I dont buy that because either VS would engineer events to rid itself of the Quint shell program or the Quints would have realized at some point that something fishy is going on. Plus with the two factions engaged in a destructive war and VS still existing and under (partial?) thrall of the Quints, prior to the launch of the Arc it was the best move for them to make their move.

    BTW I am aware of the marvel story, but again I seem to remember that the 'shell' thing was a beastwars era thingie that got shoe horned in the g1 lore. Might be mistaken again.
     
  5. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Lol
    Believe me, I’m no fan of “actual gods” in transformers either , it’s why I keep saying “god like”.

    I prefer to think of Primus (or what ever name) as marvel treats Thor and many of their other so called gods.....as aliens or persons from other realms , that’s why I kept referring to Primus/VS as “god like”

    I can’t understand what you feel the Quints would suspect that something “fishy” was going on with Primus/VS

    They were typical 80’s bad-guysslave master/dictators that underestimate all of their adversaries to ridiculous levels, with the “Oh that will never happen to us “ mentality about just about ever situation

    In fact what we learned in 5FoD indicates that they were aware the the slaves beginning a revolt and it appears they did nothing about it......and the revolt must have taken a few years to plan....maybe decades

    And it’s not like the Quints learned from those mistakes, look at how Grimlock convinced the Sharkticons to revolt as well...sure it didn’t last long but after loosing Cybertron you would think the Quints would have had a way to stop any Sharkticons revolt down immediately on the spot with no need to retreat to a safe position

    I just don’t see the Quints of being smarted then they are Arrogant, I don’t think they could have ever considered any revolt would be successful
    Shoehorned might be the wrong word but more like expanded on like the concept of sparks was expanded on but originated in G1

    Think of the episode “day of the machines”, or any other G1 episode in which where one of the characters had their programs altered to essentially worked for the other team ....or like what Bombshell does with his cerbro shells

    They are basically a form of a “shell program” that “over writes” the characters original programming
     
  6. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Actually...It proves quite the opposite....They didnt understand a thing "What the Quintessons failed to grasp, was that their machines had developed emotions, and that oversight sealed their fate'

    The Sharkticons are stupid...IDK if its deliberate or with lacking VS the quints programming skills are 'as far as it goes' with intelligence, but Trypticon is another 'brick' (remember my theory in another discussion regarding him) that seems to lead some credence to it......

    I will request further clarification with this because I dont understand the argument here.
     
  7. Fretburn

    Fretburn We need Instrument TFs

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    Why not? They're not problematic words, they aren't bigoted, they don't have any complex severe negative history.
     
  8. Mega scream

    Mega scream Tyrannical Freedom Fighter

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    Not all of them.
     
  9. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    That hardly proves the opposite when we actually see one of the robots “revolting” in the same episode.... no less in the same segment.....and part the same testimony you just posted

    The Quintessons also used the robots to entertain them.

    Machine was pitted against machine in gladitorial combat. Some of us, however, found this pointless combat repellent and sought to put a stop to it.

    ANCIENT AUTOBOT LEADER NO. 3

    We failed. But the seeds of revolt had been planted,” [/i]

    Again the Quints were aware for quite some time and did nothing about it Largely due to their arrogance

    Forgive me if I am misremembering or confusing you with other posters but didn’t you also theorize that the quints created the Predacons?

    Anyway while I agree your idea has merit I would argue that the evidence also supports the idea that lower level of of intelligence of the Sharkticons could have been deliberate and not due to a lack of VS or skills

    Do you remember the episode “the killing jar”? That episode featured a Allicon that aside from being able to break his “ obedience programming” Was as intelligent has any average transformer
    Well you suggested that the concept of a shell program originated would be scores and has been “shoehorned” into G1. What I’m saying is that the concept of the shell program was present in the G1 cartoon

    In short “A shell program is a personality altering program that can be installed within a Transformer to change the way they act. A shell program can even compel a Transformer to behave in ways diametrically opposed to what they would do if it were not installed”

    Well we have seen many examples of shuck a thing in the G1 cartoon,

    Megatrons Robo-Smasher
    Bombshells cerebro-shells
    Megatrons Personality disstabilizer device (attack of the autobots)

    Even the autobots used this type of tech on Devestator and on 2 other “super computer” types I can’t renrmber the names of right now

    So like “sparks”....the concept of a shell program was expanded on in beast wars
     
  10. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Aha. True. Never thought of it in that context somehow.


    Again that is true and yes it was me.


    True BUT, Vector Sigma is neither a Transformer, we dont know if it has a 'personality' or simply a directive, or whatever it is, and by all accounts it is capable of extremely complicated thinking/calculations, to the point of predicting/setting up/forcing/causing/name it what you will the future. I doubt something like that would happen.