Transformers G1 created on Earth?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by DaTa1982, Jul 23, 2019.

  1. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Can I ask you why you been by “run a raid” as they did for the creation of both those teams?Not arguing I just don’t see a “raid” in what was done in their creation

    Megatron stole some cars, modified them, and then went to vector sigma to give them life

    And the jets were made from transport ships on cybertron
    The dialog from 5FoD suggest he already had his life program before the film
     
  2. setsuna

    setsuna Well-Known Member

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    Wish there was material explaining in depth why the original combaticons had their sparks stored away in a vault
     
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  3. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see what they did, considering how many times Starscream tried to take command
     
  4. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde Destron Enforcer

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    In the Marvel UK fiction IIRC Arcee was created on Earth and it was hilarious, anyone who hasn't checked out "Prime's Rib" really should, it's a riot.

    Based Furman.
     
  5. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Megatron stole some cars, modified them, and then went to vector sigma to give them life

    And the jets were made from transport ships on cybertron

    Yes but the Autobots had to go to an occupied Cybertron
    to make them and give them Personalities. Essentially behind enemy lines. Hence the word 'raid'. In the end it doesnt matter how you classify it.

    Yes indeed. But in all honesty it doesnt make much sense. He didnt utter a single word prior to his transformation and he was both durring the movie and in 5ffod in deadly peril. He spoke only when he transformed. You can raise an arguement that he was 'offline'but the T-cogs are not a critical (as in life and death or function)system.

    Ultimately I prefer to writte off this inconsistency with the above explanation. Which is not official ofc.
     
  6. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up
     
  7. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I missed something obvious, what I do not understand is that after the Key to Vector Sigma episodes, the Key is destroyed. So, post that episode, even if transformers took robots to Vector Sigma, Vector Sigma would be offline and not able to give new life (unless the Matrix could reawaken Vector Sigma for the Autobots). But given the dialog between Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus in Rebirth, it does not look like Vector Sigma has brought new life to a transformer, since the Aerialbots.

    Off course, this could just be a line which should have been edited out.
     
  8. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Ι am of the idea that the key worked as a temporary power source to Vector Sigma. When Megatron removed it after creating the Stunticons, he removed it and VC entered into a dormant state again. I think this was to conserve its energy till a permanent powersource was to be found (read Alpha-Trion making his way there and the rebirth occurs). Alpha Trion merged with it 'reactivating it' in his own words. It could stand to reason that this type of activation could last a tid bit. Plus under Megatrons rule, Cybertron was extensively revitalised (till Unicron attacked). It was repaired and it seems that all of its Systems were online (even the mass transit). So VC could have been active at the time.

    I also seem to remember that Prime used the shell of the matrix to 'merge' with VC (or at least that how I remember UM asking him if he did). Not reactivate it. To me that meant Prime 'entered' for a lack of a better word, inside and sought out Trions...whatever it is that resides into VC consciousness....
     
  9. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, say Vector Sigma was online all the way from when Alpha Trion merged with it all the way to rebirth and beyond) would Vector Sigma be contaminated from a Decepticon point of view as Alpha Trion has merged with it and may affect programming for the Decepticons?

    The quote is below, to me, in isolation it looks like Vector Sigma is not active at that time, but in the same episode Vector Sigma is passing on information to Galvatron. But how could Vector Sigma consciously pass on information to Galvatron, if it was not active during the time.
    OPTIMUS PRIME
    Right. And with the shell of the Matrix, I may be able to reactivate Vector Sigma, and merge with it.


    Lastly, just wondering if you got my post (3rd last one on the link below), essentially on the fate of the Fembots and any lingering Autobot resistance on Cybertron pre-2005, in the link below (sorry if it was a poor question)?

    What happened offscreen on Cybertron in the G1 cartoon?


    Your response would help me get a clear picture in my head of individual transformer movements, post the Search for Alpha Trion episode.
     
  10. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I don’t see the key as a power source of any kind. I feel it’s exactly what the name implies, a computer key code that opens (activates) VC

    Alpha was able to reactive VC because , Being a first generation robot their computer codes were very similar

    I also think VC remained inactive until the introduction of the Headmasters, based on the dialog spoken by Optimus, he hoped the shell of the matrix would “Re-Activate” Vector Sigma
     
  11. ABrown

    ABrown Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand where the confusion is. "They had no cybertonium in them." Therefor whatever was used, would by definition be a "subsitute" for the cybertonium.


    And again, we already know that they were made with an Earth substitute for the cybertonium. Cybertonium isn't a part within them, like a transformation cog. Cybertonium is what they're made out of. That's why we didn't see one specific part of their bodies failing. It was effecting their entire bodies, as that's what their bodies are made out of. Transformers built on Cybertron were made from cybertonium, Transformers built on Earth were made from Earth materials.

    Actually, there is. They're called the Combaticons. And the Constructicons as well, assuming that they were built new bodies on Earth.

    Which again, we already know that the substitute works as the Dinobots, Constructicons, Stunticons, and Combaticons all function perfectly.


    Well first of all, season one episodes are what came first. So anything that happens in the following seasons is a contradiction of season one, not the other way around. Second, the first season was a standard season size. The episodes were of higher quality than the seasons that followed. The second and third seasons featured far more animation errors, and had so many episodes that the writers couldn't even keep the episodes from contradicting each other.

    I would say that there was even less communication between the writers for the large second than there was between the movie writers and the writers of the post movie episodes.

    I don't exactly see what Hauler has to do with anything. Hauler appeared in the first season. I'm talking about characters who didn't first appear until the second season.

    If the season two Autobots were in that mess, then the conversation in the Dinobots first episodes would've gone like this:

    Wheeljack: "Ya know, I wish we had some dinosaurs working for us. They'd really shake up the Decepticons."
    Ratched: "I'm with you Wheejlack. We could build robot versions of those oversize iguanas."
    Optimus: "Well, don't you think you two should first be working on creating new bodies for the season two Autobots that are lying around on the floor here still in stasis?"
    Wheeljack and Ratched: "NO! WE WANT DINOSAURS!"

    It's always been my opinion that Galvatron learned about the plasma energy chamber (and its key) from Optimus using the matrix in The Return of Optimus Prime: Part 2 (and not from Vector Sigma). In the episode, it was stated that the wisdom of the ages was lost from the matrix, and that they were all a little wiser now. Then in the first part of Rebirth, Optimus says that he's had overwhelming feelings ever since he released the energy of the matrix. And finally, Optimus mentions that every Autobot leader (all of whom would have contributed to the knowledge within the matrix, as the matrix was a receptacle of the wisdom of the Autobot leaders) had been charged with guarding the key. At least that's what I see as having been what happened, based on the evidence presented in the show.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
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  12. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Interesting ....
    But how do you factor in Alpha Trion telling Optimus that it was Vector Sigma that allowed Galvatron to learn of the plasm energy chamber?

    Also, forgive me if I misunderstood you, but we were talking about the Key yo vector sigma, not the key to the plasma energy chamber
     
  13. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Probably not. I believe 'it was meant to be'.
    This is heavy speculation on my part but it ties in with the dialogue from several episodes and the events as they unfolded: I believe the whole Autobot/Decepticon conflict was engineered by VC....as was the rebellion against the Quints....Lets take it from the end: Its boldly stated by Trion in the visions Prime had, that Vector Sigma arranged for Galvatron to learn about the plasma energy chamber...A move that could devastate Cybertron the Earth, the solar System and perhaps the enire galaxy (Vector Sigma included)....And all was hanging in the balance, waiting for the fussion of Mechanical and Robotic life (the masters). He also tells Prime "Do NOT question Vector Sigmas motives, his computation matrix is Godlike' (or somesuch,ill have to go back to rewatching the actual quote). That means it is cabable of calculating every miniscule detail, to the point of engineering events by litteraly forcing and predicting future outcomes. Now lets go a bit more backwards: AlphaTrion Merges with VC because they have similar something (PrimeUltra says its not the power source, but their coding, I dont remember the quote, ill come back to the both of you with that), as a first generation product of VS.Ok, now remember that further back A3 (at the time) had a macguffin that was able to put down the Guardians? Where the heck did he get that thing? Now this is assumptions on my part but: I think VS made that thing and Trion explicitely to serve its purposes, ultimately to overthrow the Quints, cause the civil war and through it, mold the TFs and Cybertron into something. Megatron is also a product of VS, which fits in this overarching arch (and why I take the constructicons as pure animation placeholders and nothing more). He was created to cause the last war, cause Unicrons destruction and eventually the rebirth. To what end? We will never learn. It was supposed that the 4th season would explain the connection between the Matrix, the Quints, Unicron and VS...VS is a pivotal 'shadow player' since the start.

    Aha. Afain my memory fails me in dialogue, but let me ask you the same question you ask yourself: How did he indeed, inform Galvatron? Two answers IMHO: Either he was not really deactivated at all, and somehow pretended to, or Megatrons mind had a sleeper trigger? Something akin to that.

    Will check for your post now, seems I might have missed it.

    I dont think they wiser because they got infused with knowledge. It was an expression. If you want to take it litterally HotRod also stated that the wisdome of the ages was gonne....
     
  14. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    “ waiting for the fussion of Mechanical and Robotic life”?

    Lol just teasing you a bit, I pretty much agree with everything you said.The only thing I question is just how “active” vs is

    I feel there are 2 levels to the awareness of VG.....one being the super computer that can be used by others in the real world and the other more of a “higher power” god like being, which I believe to really be Primus, or what’s left of him

    I have a theory (or head canon if you like) that like in the g1 comics, Primus is the true heart of cybertron, and the quints found what was left of him and created the VS computer to control him and force him into doing what they wanted in the physical world
     
  15. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    Subliminal, but I am thinking of the Join the Navy episode in the Simpsons.

    In all seriousness, yeah, I would go along with Vector Sigma being like the deity of the Old Testament who is supposed to work in mysterious (some would say controversial) ways and is always mentally alert but may not want to grant transformers life for long periods of time. Please note, I do not want to discuss religious matters on a forum like this.

    On Vector Sigma and where it is located. I am a bit fascinated how it worked in the past, especially as only Alpha Trion has a key in the mid-1980s.

    I think that when the likes of most of season 1 and 2 transformers were given life both sides knew that Vector Sigma was available to give life. In addition, Vector Sigma would seem to be in some sort of neutral territory and both Decepticons and Autobots had clear access to the Vector Sigma chamber. When Vector Sigma was online the Centurian (from the Key to Vector Sigma) Droids would just let both parties through to Vector Sigma without offering any resistance.
     
  16. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    I dont know...The Centurions were trying to actively block the Decepticons... And I dont remember the specifics but I think they made an appereance in Headmasters too (which to me ofc it doesnt matter at all since the Japanses continuity is a whole clusterf@@@k of its own).

    The thing is that both factions revere the damn thing: Megatron shut up Rumble by saying to him to show respect. and Trion immediately called Prime in his vision not to question VS's motives with almost religious cannotation.

    The thing, VC (and by extention) the manufacturing process was Automated. Plus if that was the case, the matrix would have somehow reacted to the 'conditioning', as it did and overrode Optimus Primes controls. Plus Alpha Trion too, since it became a part of it, it would somehow influence it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
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  17. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure exactly what you are getting at, If you don’t mind please explain it

    But I’m not so sure how “automated” Sigma actually might have been, and even if it/was I would say that is part of the “Shell program” the quints used to make Sigma do what they wanted

    Again only my speculation but I feel the Quints didn’t so much “create” the first transformers, but more likely found what was left of Primus and found s way to harness and mass produced his life giving abilities
     
  18. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    This is not stated anywhere though. The guys residing in the matrix said that the Quints had made the process automated, because they were too lazy to even bother with that.
     
  19. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    But which part was automated?
    Body building or the programming?

    But even if it was both I can still see the possibility of having to levels of awareness......One in the physical world which is manipulated through the shell program and the other being more metaphysical and God like
     
  20. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it was both. I dont see any metaphysical manipulation. To me it was Vector Sigma who pushed the Autobot awareness. Vector Sigma didnt make a single mistake orchestrating events that spanned millions of years. Its unlikely that it made the mistake of causing the Autobots to rebell by accident.