The process of the transformation

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by daniel 97, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. daniel 97

    daniel 97 Autobots' second in command

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    I buddy of mine and I were recently disguising the process of transformation and it's mechanics. We were talking about the nature of it and the transformers' grasp of it. It's a pretty complex sequence and while there isn't an in-universe explanation I believe it's fun to speculate. We covered some pretty interesting aspects of it but I'd like to hear other people's opinons on it as well. First of all do you really think the transformers actually feel each and every part moving on their body? How does each segment ultimately find it's place? In my view they only have control over the initiation of the sequence and the rest just happens involuntarily, meaning they cannot control each and every little piece of their exo-structure. Of course AOE and TLK contradict this theory. Another interesting thing my friend brought up was whether the transformers are actually affected by the limitations of their chosen alt modes or not. So let's say Starscream scans a ground vehicle. Will he still be able to fly or not? I'd definitely like to see your thoughts on this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
  2. ObakaChanTachi

    ObakaChanTachi woke among sussy soyjak

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    Soundwave lost his ability to fly after dropping the satellite for an SLS AMG.

    Megatron became a tank, albeit a fictional Cybertronian model, in ROTF but maintained his flight ability but not as an Earth truck in AOE and DOTM.

    If Starscream scanned an Earth land vehicle he’s more likely to become grounded like Soundwave than he is not.
     
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  3. Insurgent

    Insurgent The Amazing Tango Mysterio

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    I would say transformation is like humans breathing. It can be controlled, it can be paused mid way, but generally when they do it, it's just done with concious thought. They just do it. But they can pause it if they think about it, like we hold our breath. We don't stop the oxygen going around our bodies, so they can't control where each little piece goes or in what order it all shifts, but we can hold our breath.

    As for the flying thing, I would say yes in alt mode. If it's someone who can fly in robot mode, then they can always fly in robot mode (like screamer or Optimus in AOE). But if they need to be in alt mode to fly (like Straife, or perhaps Soundwave with his satellite?) then if they scan a ground mode, they lose it.
     
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  4. Cryptwire

    Cryptwire Cybertronian Engineer/Sniper

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    I mentioned this before that most likely the shapeshifting process is second nature to them.

    It's like a turtle slinking back to its shell or an octopus or chameleon blending with its surroundings. Or even a human contorting their limbs. Try to hyperbend and hyperextend your limbs. I would imagine this is what Cybertronians feel during transformation, by it is easier for them. They are a shape shifting species. Just as what the poster mentioned above, it is just like breathing to them and they can control it at will (how fast, positions of the parts, etc.)

    My only thing is ground modes, unless they get an upgrade, won't be able to fly. It would take surgical enhancements for them to be artificial fliers with flier alt modes, not just rocket abilities.

    Fliers can easily adopt ground modes if their genetics (sparks) allow them to. These Cybertronians are triple changers or multi changers.
     
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  5. MattDallas

    MattDallas Well-Known Member

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    And obviously when they transform into, say, a car, their vision changes. But where too? The headlights? Somewhere in the drivers seat area (so they can use their mirrors)? They can regularly see if a flyer is above them, which would suggest something else, but then why not use that in robot mode all the time?
     
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  6. Cryptwire

    Cryptwire Cybertronian Engineer/Sniper

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    I'm guessing Cybertronians once they form into their alt modes switch to a 360 degree field of vision (from stereoscopic). Some insects like the dragonfly and chameleon have 360 degree fields of vision and goats have FOVs that are close to it. With Cybertronians, since they are a highly advanced species, that 360 degree field of vision applies horizontally and vertically so they're able to see around them in alt mode.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
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  7. Slaskia

    Slaskia Well-Known Member

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    I haven't really thought much about it. The Bumblebee movie showed Bee having incredible control, able to half-way transform when the situation called for it (cop chase scene and aftermath of the house destroying scene) and to partly transform just a limb out of his alt-move to wave and grab things. This seems to be an exception, as in other media I've seen, it's either robot mode or alt-mode. No in-between at all (not counting minor shifts to change limbs into weapons). I do like what the Bumblebee movie did in this regard, as it not only showed just how adaptable a Cybertronian could be, but it also made them more 'alien'.

    As for their senses when in alt-mode, that was a question I had as well. In Prime, they made a big deal of them using their side-view mirrors to 'look' around, at least behind them, but I think that was just a way for the animators to 'show' the Autobot is 'looking' in that direction. I do like the idea that they have something of a 'field of view' all around them, like really advanced proximity sensors, but somewhat limited depending on the alt-mode (flyers naturally would have a larger/better FoV, for instance).
     
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  8. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    Out-universe, it all came down to Rule of Cool. So it's kind of hard to give a good in-universe explanation when a lot of factors are out-universe (toy design, marketing, writing, etc).

    But for an in-universe explanation, I feel the films scaled the Transformers from robots into disguise into living mechanical shapeshifters who could become, well, any machine that they wished, with size being the only major limiting factor. And over five films both Autobots and Decepticons have wielded multiple alternate modes (Bumblebee, Megatron, Optimus Prime, Laserbeak, Soundwave, Frenzy, Devastator) as a measure of adaptability and pragmatism.

    The closest parallels I can think of are:
    - the Gallifreyans from Dr Who, who change their bodies frequently
    - the T-1000 Terminator, who could change shape easily (in fact TF4 had liquid metal Transformers)

    This concept of “becoming any machine” raises questions though:
    - How can Megatron switch from a jet to a tank/truck easily but Optimus keeps to a truck? Why couldn’t he scan some flight gear into his body instead of needing it as support? Why is Megatron better at changing his environment than Optimus?
    - Frenzy and Devastator were able to function with their body components divided and separate. That makes them multi-component Transformers, I guess. So, what makes them able to do it and why aren’t other bots able to manage it?
     
  9. Slaskia

    Slaskia Well-Known Member

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    First thought that comes to mind is the original origins in G1: Cons were built to be war machines, thus were naturally more adaptable for that reason. The Bots, on the other hand, were designed with only a single role in mind for their function. I mean, a truck's original functioning is to ferry/haul things around...you don't expect it to do anything more than that without some heavy modification.
     
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  10. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    That's what I wonder about too. Some have mentioned the all around viewing, but how? With tiny cameras all over? Why don't they have this capability in robot mode?
    I also wonder if any Transformers are double jointed. I noticed in some fights TFs were able to hurt each other using humanistic fighting techniques. If they could, fort example, bend their elbows all the way in both directions, those techniques wouldn't be as affective...
     
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  11. MattDallas

    MattDallas Well-Known Member

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    Yes! There is no need for them to only bend their limbs like we do in normal movement. They are double jointed but are only ever presented as moving like us except in the odd circumstance. Perhaps their internal circuitry/wires etc. are stuck in a similar way to our bones when in robot mode but these disconnect or something only during Transformation?
     
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  12. daniel 97

    daniel 97 Autobots' second in command

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    That's a great suggestion! But it doesn't concern the ability to transform. Actually in that same G1 episode they also explain that the Autobots were the ones who 'invented' the transformation. Anyway my guess would be that your theory partly explains why the Decepticons are generally more robust and well...tough.
    I do like that idea. Thanks for that! :) 

    It's difficult to come up with a cohesive answer as every other movie contradicted what had been established previously. And if we count other media as canon than things might change slightly. Remember how in the RoTF video game Ironhide mentions he can't fly? If we count that statement as a general truth then maybe some transformers really aren't able to utilize a flying alt mode because their body is not built for flight.
     
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  13. primal789

    primal789 Prime

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    I think that was meant to be a funny comment..Like:"Oh I can't fly..you know that don't you?Okay let's see what you got" at least that's what it seemed to me.As for the transformation and all I think they do control the process like Bee does in Bumblebee..there was always the half-transformation...for me it does make sense.It's like movement to us..there's no complicated command or we don't have to prepare,we can just move different parts of our body at once in a matter of seconds...the parts find the same place every time right?So after scanning the vehicle it was already configurated in some way in them already.Also about choosing a different alt mode yes..some seem more adaptable to change but the way I see it it's only natural..like it's harder to become a doctor after you've been a soldier,you can with effort or maybe you fail but some are more adaptable than others and can do it even better than some who have been doctors all their lives..so with cybertronians and their alternate modes it depends on how open they are to change..if you can get one you're more comfortable in and maybe have much more control why not choose that one?
     
  14. Slaskia

    Slaskia Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to alt-modes, it seems pretty consistent across the multi-verse that they can't change their base alt-mode (ground vs flight to keep it simple, though there would be 'weight classes' in both categories that could be a factor). There are exceptions of course, but from what I remember they are all extreme cases. In general, when a Cybertronian wants to change their alt-mode, they have to keep these things in mind:

    1. compatibility with their mechanical structure.
    2. overall size/mass similarity (though mass shifting/displacement and extend the range)
    3. CNA/Spark coding limits (if present in that continuity)

    So TFP Arcee (motorcycle alt), if she tried to scan a camero, she'd no doubt get a big flashing 'not compatible' message in her HUD. In IDW, from what I can understand (as I never read it), bots can wind up with an utterly useless alt-mode (one of them transformed into a leg, if I remember right?). If changing your original alt-mode was easy, it wouldn't be such a point of contention. So that tells me that changing an alt-mode that drastically is either not possible, or takes really drastic measures/procedures to accomplish and likely not considered worth the expense. Movie Megs could be used as an example here: getting the AllSpark shoved into his spark likely changed him physically (and his spark) in such a way that allowed him to change from a jet-alt mode to a ground based one.

    Even Optimus when he got his 'flight upgrade' (in movies and Prime), was still a truck: his flying ability was essentially an 'add-on'. And that I can see only being possible due to him being a Matrix bearer.
     
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  15. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    I suppose a Transformer's choice does matter. Optimus could stay as a truck simply because he's most comfortable with it, Bee is most comfortable as a yellow car, while Megatron keeps changing his mode as a matter of strategy and Soundwave selects a mode that suits his needs (a satellite for surveillance, a car for stalking prey).

    And in protoform mode, flying in the air is a given, so the option of flight is available for Transformers, it's just that they could choose to not fly, for whatever reason they wish (being on the ground is safer, more comfortable, etc).