But none of that is what I'm saying or suggesting… You're saying: if the character is named Starscream, he has to be the Air commander/XO, and wants to de-throne the leader. Because that's what the Original use of this name was and thus has to remain so.

That's not what I'm saying or suggesting.

Because chaning this is what they did in BW. G1 Silverbot was the leader of the Aerialbots, a jet, burdened by his fear of Heights and a very modest character. Then we get a Silverbolt in BW and he's a wolfeagle hybrid, has no issue with heights and is governed by a knight like chivalry. Same name, but completely different alt/robot design and completely different character. And same with Inferno who went from being an Autobot who lived for action and was somewhat short tempered (but a true Autobot in spirit) and transformed into a fire truck...to being an insane fire ant who thought their base was the colony, the troops were drones, and the leader was the queen...and was a bad guy.


Why can't the same apply to the name Starscream? Or any of the other names? Starscream is only the power hungry Decepticon air commander because Hasbro does this over and over again. If they don't assign him this part but another, then for a whole new group of TF fans he'll be this different character.

And they can't just assign a new name, because new names have to be thought up, most good names have already been taken, and by not using a name they risk losing the copyright on that name.​

So, what if we have a new series. And in this we have an alien space vehicle, let's say with a gold base colour, that transforms into a robot (some Wings on his lower legs, one arm is the cockpit) who is associated with the Autobots. He's part of the space team and thus spends lots of time alone in space. Due to this he has a tendency to loudly babble just so he hears someone speak (thus not completely sane in the head). He's among the stars and he screams from loneliness...thus the name Starscream applies (as in G1, a name purely based on abilities and/or character, not on the bagage of 30 years of TF).


EDIT: and although I've said this before: no, I don't think this will happen because Hasbro doesn't want to. They want to re-do G1 over and over again, because they know this will sell and new ideas are not guaranteed to sell.

 

What they did in BWs was a completely other proposition. It was setup in the same universe, but the characters were different by default. That by itself invalidates anything that has to do with the original, and leaves the name as a hollow afterthought. Silverbolt was not popular or pivotal in the lore as well (g1 sunbow at least). Correlating the two is comparing apples to oranges.

You are taking a name that has carved itself to the history of the franchise and you drop it willy nilly with no real need. Name your character whatever and do your job. It will be worth so much more.

 

And that's exactly what I'm suggesting. No G1 continuity, no re-do of G1. Something completely new. And if it's completely new, then everything can be new.

You mean like how Bumblebee was the smallest, weakest of the Aubobots during G1 and a bit chubby...and was reimagined as a bad ass, lean and mean fighting machine for the movies (a change because they suddenly got the rights back to the name Bumblebee when the first movie was already written and in production). And in the recent RiD series he was clearly written to be the potential future leader of the Autobots (a Hot Rod done right). That's not character development, but assigning the familiar name to a new type of character. (Thus exactly what I'm arguing.)

But you can't just make up new names. This was commented on during BW why some had dumb names (Cheetor, Rattrap, Rhinox). And the anwer was simple: all the really good names are already protected by copyright. You have to think up a new name, but there are (apparently) publications just for that: comics/books with just new names name dropped so to claim a name. And if a company uses that name, they have to pay copyright.

If Hasbro wants to use a new name, it will cost lots of research and risk of copyright payments, while at the same time losing the names they already got because they're not using them.

 

I don't see the point since there are plenty of car Decepticons already, just pick one of them.

 

Would be weird

 

If you remove him from his original "skyward" naming intent, then sure, he can be anything. But you are running up against 35 years of original naming intent, too. He is as much connected to his alt mode as Optimus Prime is to being a red truck of some kind. I mean, this is also Optimus Prime:

But how many fans really feel connected to this toy being Optimus Prime?

 

Yes, that much is clear from the replies I've read (and gotten) in this thread  

The possibility for such changes is likely long past us. It has become clear to Hasbro over the years that G1 is what the fans want, and thus they make G1.

(Oh, and I would totaly accept that as Optimus Prime. Or even the G2 GoBot or alternity cars.)

 

Can't tell if you're exaggerating or genuinely don't know the meaning of the word "never". You kinda just disproved the notion that you can't have Megatron without Starscream in the same post you said that. It's rare but it does happen so you in fact ARE going to see Megatron without Starscream as we have already seen it happen.

The different vehicle mode is not why no one would recognize him as Optimus Prime... (Besides the fact that he isn't Optimus Prime at all but I'm going to ignore that for the minute.) it's the robot mode. He lacks the iconic head design and the red/blue color scheme that is iconic for Optimus Prime. Even Primal, though very minimally, sports that iconic look while transforming into something that is very much NOT a truck.

It would of been better to use a picture of BM Optimus Primal because that thing is the only Optimus you're going to find who in no way looks like Optimus. It's not because he's a gorilla because he was a gorilla before that. It's because he longer shares any design elements with Optimus what so ever.

His Beast Wars bodies were still recognizable as Optimus. The original even with the open mouth and slightly different antenna is still very much an Optimus head sculpt. He does have red and blue though not as much as we're use to. Still you can tell it's Optimus even without a Truck mode. TM the general shape of the helmet is still there even if they did give him a more organic look. He's got some obvious blue and little red... which seems a little backwards when Optimus is typically more red than blue but again still looks like Optimus. Optimal Optimus... well the red has now been replaced by orange for some reason... though Optimus has always had a little bit of yellow on him as well and red/yellow make orange so maybe that's why? Anyway... same head shape a little bit different coloration as there's now some orange on the helmet where it would normally be totally blue but there is still blue there and the shape is still unmistakably Optimus. And none of these turn into trucks.

Even the Botcon Pre-BW Optimus Primal transformed into a car yet still ended up looking like Optimus.

There's also the Bat, Lion, and Mammoth two of which are technically never called Optimus but they still very clearly look like Optimus Prime despite none of them being trucks.

There's also this dude.



A little bit odd mostly due to just how freaking small this thing is. Use to Optimus Prime having much larger toys but I can still see this as Optimus.

The picture you used lacks any of the details that make Optimus Prime because it's a picture of Roadbuster not because he isn't a truck.

 

And one of the most hated to boot, and a childs play that pisses people and hides behind tables....If thats your idea of badass and 'Hotrod done right'......Oh boy

Dumb according to you maybe. One of the best names I read was from a fanmade combiner: Titantread. If a fan can come up with it, they can come up with a plethora of names. And drop that copyright thing. I told you how they did and how they can avoid it. Its not an argument.

And thats what it really is about isnt it? Get away from G1 at all costs.....I had a gut feeling about it from the start.
I will never understand whats with this fandom and wanting to cut all connections to the franchises roots. Does it feel threatening to you?

There are a billion continuities out there and there are ample opportunities to create something fresh and new from 0 and yet because of a pathological hatred of g1, all you people want is just to regurgitate its aspects and stoop them low in a bad copy pasta that serves no purpose.....Creativity be damned.....

 

Yes, but you aren't observing the most critical factor: context. RID/Car Robots 2000 was almost two decades ago when the brand wasnt really that developed past G1, since RID is significant for being the first continuity with no connection to G1 whatsoever.

Fast forward nearly two decades and the revival of G1 along with Starscream's presence in every major series (and Rescue Bots because he gets name dropped at one point) since Armada in 2001, the idea that what the immediate successors to G1 got away with is even remotely possible these days is to be ignorant of the brand's iconography. Just look to the reaction to the Bumblebee trailer when the jet transformed - and then the disappointment when it ended up being Blitzwing despite the blatantly obvious seeker design which Blitzwing never was (a double insult since Blitzing is the most prolific triple changer, but he's suddenly a generic seeker in a film where two nobodies ARE triple changers?)

 

BUT BUT BUT....You cant have more names! Apparently Dropkick and Shatter as names dont exist..... 

 

Blitzwing is totally unrelated. People weren't dispointed because Starscream wasn't there, they were disappointed because we finally got a movie Starscream who actually looks like the character with a totally different character's name slapped on.

And we've also seen Megatron without Starscream very recently in the movie universe. Bayverse Starscream is the first one to actually stay dead so as a result AoE and TLK had Megatron/Galvatron with no Starscream.

 

Why do that? I think one of his traits is running away from any situation, and the jet mode really helps with that.

 

At the same time, you have a film that is obviously going full on G1 with every single robot design...except for Blitzwing. Like, why did it have to be Blitzwing? The franchise is certainly not at a loss for names for generic jet guys among the Decepticons, but Blitzwing is a pretty high profile Decepticon even compared to the big three (Megs, Sound, Scream). And his name got thrown away on an expendable seeker, the definition of disposable canon fodder, while the other two newbie Decepticons get to be triple changers. It just seems like a colossal issue that could have been avoided in the official sense if you just didn't use that specific name given its association with a rare gimmick (comparatively) that the other two robots inherently get, in a film desperately trying to appeal to the old school veteran crowd.

That doesn't count because it's still the same continuity. If you want to be technical, then that means Animated beat the films to the punch because Megatron largely doesn't have Starscream around for the first two seasons. He spends all of season 1 as a head until the end, where he basically kills Starscream immediately after their reunion, then all through season 2 he basically gives zero shits about Starscream not being dead despite the many (useless) attempts to kill Megatron again until the end, where Starscream gets betrayed by his own seeker clones for Megatron, loses his body, and then gets his head shoved into the Spacebridge to overcharge it.

This is actually interesting since, while probably unintentional given G1 episodes were written with little care for deeper meaning or even larger continuity, Starscream actually plays a crticial role for Megatron - the only reason Megatron would keep such a blatantly disloyal traitor as his second in command is to, ironically, serve as the best defense against any power plays. Starscream traditionally can never take on Megatron in a straight fight (or even if he tried to cheat he'd still lose), so he always tries to go the subtrefuge route to overthrow Megatron and thus take the leader role. Every single version of Starscream that tries this is always horrible at these attempts due to a mix of power greed and impatience, meaning he fumbles every attempt and Megatron swiftly repreimands him. But this is useful to Megatron, despite the constant annoyance it poses, because it means he has to stay on his toes for whatever Starscream tries next (pretty much exactly what Clauseau's buttler does in the Pink Panther films, except the difference there is Clauseau explicitly orders his super loyal mansesrvant to attack him every night for that reason and the guy wouldn't dare hurt his boss otherwise, whereas Starscream would kill Megatron without a second thought if he could get away with it). Thus, if somebody else decides to go for Megatron's position, and unlike Starscream actually knows how to make a power play, Megatron is that much more prepared because Starscream always capitalizes on weaknesses in the dumbest way possible, ensuring Megatron can compensate from actual threats.

Animated...doesn't do that. Animated Megatron, barring Starscream blowing him up in the first episode, easily reclaims his leader position upon his rebuilding and goes through the entire series unchallenged. Given the massive power divide between Cons and Bots in Animated, this is fantastic because it makes Megatron THAT much more imposing that a bunch of backstabbers won't even TRY to pull a Starscream on him. Instead, there's Lugnut, the antithesis of Starscream, and Megatron isn't entirely happy about Lugnut's enthusiasm given how it can prove to be a detriment.

 

So is Beast Wars but we still counted that and there's TWO Starscreams in that continuity.

How does that beat the movie? He was still there for most of the series till the AllSpark fragmet keeping him alive got ripped out of his head.

Have you seen Transformers Cybertron. I can't remember if he actually won that fight but that was one of the only times where Starscream was nearly as strong if not stronger than Megatron. Yeah pretty much every other Starscream has been comically weak compared to Megatron and has never been able to take him in a straight fight but Cybertron kinda broke this tradition and it was AWESOME!

I think that was actually when Megatron became Galvatron in that series and if Megatron hadn't of gotten a huge power boost out of no where Starscream might have actually won... but again it's been a while since I've seen that series and the ending of that fight is kinda fuzzy. I just remember that Starscream was actually holding his own for once and provided a real challenge.

 

The strange thing is: I don't think his personality makes it necessary for him to be a plane or any type of flight vehicle.

Take characters like Perceptor, Blaster, Soundwave, and Megatron: Their personalities and roles within their factions suit their alternate modes perfectly.

It makes sense for Perceptor to be a microscope, because he's a nerdy geeky scientist.
It makes sense for Blaster and Soundwave to be boomboxes, because Blaster has a very loud and vocal personality and Soundwave + Laserbeak are master spies- which makes being able to record and playback footage to Megatron a perfect skill for them.
Then you've got Megatron himself: He's pushy, violent, impulsive, explosive, and powerful. A gun or tank matches that sort of personality perfectly.

But then I look at Starscream and all I see is a sneaky, backstabbing, pathetic, sometimes bipolar, begging, grobbling bitch under Megatron's foot- and frankly I don't think that makes a fighter plane remotely significant to his personality.

He could be a car, boat, crane, truck, or motorcycle and still be who he is- it won't change anything- not to me at least.

 

I wouldn't say "unique," as there are plenty of jet Transformers. But it's definitely iconic. I wouldn't want to see my favorite Seeker turn into anything other than a fighter jet.

 

Well starscream has always looked down on those who couldn't fly or took a land based alt mode so it's pretty ridiculous

 

Probably wouldn't like it, but wouldn't be the end of the world. Not like this stuff hasn't happened before (Megatron isn't a gun anymore). If you wanted to change his alt mode it would make more sense, to me, to change it to something that's still air-based and keeps to the spirit of the character (ex. Optimus being a fire truck sometimes, Megatron is usually a tank).

Like a space rocket or maybe helicopter.

 

I think Megatron not being a gun anymore is a bad comparison to make. I mean Megatron has only been a gun ONCE but Starscream has been a jet in almost every single incarnation of the character.

I agree with the point you're trying to make but it would be better if you're going to make comparisons to other characters to use examples that don't appear with a different alternate mode every single freaking time we ever see them.

There are a few characters who mostly appear with a specific alternate mode with a few exceptions that worked well which would be much better comparisons to make with Starscream. Optimus seems to have worked well the few times that he has transformed into something other than a truck. It doesn't happen very often and most times he still ends being a truck but occasionally we get to see Optimus as a car, train, jet, tank, or some kind of animal. So if Optimus can work not being a truck every single time I don't see why Starscream can't work not being a jet some times too.