Yes, I've seen it, and MegaZarak, BlackZarak, Fortress, nor Grand are ever compared or described in size in the series, so nice lie?

You also just said the transtector connects directly with the headmaster instead of a three-stager, but now you're saying the headmaster itself has been enlarged, meaning Lord Zarak from Planet Master has changed in size.

I never said toys are valid for scale. I said that you chose to include the toy bios. The toy your bio is referring to has the Headmaster connect with the Transtector in the exact same manner, implying the exact same size ratios. You can't say that the Transtector is smaller if proportionally the Headmaster is not.

 

Which size because you see mega zarak headmaster next to other regular tfs and he's clearly larger than a normal head master. In god masters you see black zarak next to several tfs we've seen next to humans and he isn't sized like a city. In the additional media it's explained.

Your calling me a liar but I've done nothing but quote the shows media, which you either haven't read or have miss understood.

 

We are going into no circles. Yet again you are missing facts. Thats a bodytype Maximus true, but its NOT FORTRESS MAXIMUS. Its GRAND maximus, which is minimised as well. And the headmaster has nothing to do with the actual size of the Transector.

 

Yes you can, again it’s fiction

Remember from the very start of the show it employed the concept of massive shifting

A human sized character transforming into the head of one of those huge city/space ship sized characters employed that concept

Either with Zarak to Scopinox in “the rebirth” or in the Japanese counterpart names (what ever they were named”) , mass shifting was used for the smaller guys becoming the heads of FM and Scorpy,

So with the other 2 characters sharing the same toymolda, no or less mass shifting was used to become the larger robot heads

What you need to do was completely drop trying to use any logic on this topic

 

Wasn't my initial point that there are inconsistencies? The show never explains their sizes. The show just has them stand next to each other, then transform and suddenly be visibly different in size. Do you deny this? If not, then what's your point?

Actually, "Maximus" is the body-type and the bios indicate they transform into the exact same spacecraft down to the model. Body-types never vary in size. That's why BlackZarak isn't the same as MegaZarak: they're different sizes.

So then you acknowledge the inconsistencies. Then what's the big deal with what I said?

 

I've always thought that Metroplex was just slightly smaller and Fort Max was the king. Then i always thought trypticon was just slightly smaller then scorponoks. That's basically what I've thought going from the g1 toon from back in the day.

 

That it's explained in the fiction which you keep ignoring. If it's explained it's not inconsistent. You want to call it bad fiction that's your choice but it's not inconsistent in the fiction because they explain it. Do you just not understand what inconsistent means? Is English not your first language? I mean no offence by that and apologise if it comes off that way but I really have a hard time with seeing how you can't understand this concept.

Example combiners are quite inconsistent in their size in g1 cartoons as they are drawn as large as the story requires.
Black Zarak and Grand Maximus are drawn to be smaller than mega zarak and fortress maximus in comparison to humans and other transformers because one is a different smaller transector and the other is a different smaller character, they may look the same but only in the same way a RC car may look like a real one.

Has that cleared it up for you or do you still not understand?

 

1)Watch Masterforce again
2)Read Grands bio
3)Thats complete idle speculation on your part
4)We ve been telling you that the 'Zaraks' are different sizes for two pages now...

 

I blatantly addressed this, and that's like the third or fourth time. Do you deny that this is exactly what I said?

 

I am out of this discussion. No reason to remain here.

 

Ok, this isn't going to work. Every time I use reasoning to address something you say, you go back to the previous point. You haven't been explaining anything for two pages. You've just been giving "circular proof." You also seem to ignore certain things I say for the sake of the argument, which is biased. You have the right to challenge everything I say, but please make sure I haven't already addressed it. I'm just going to have to beg you to read this carefully, not hot-headedly. It's not any new argument. It's just clarifications of why I said what I said.

If you say that a toy bio or an episode has something, I wholeheartedly trust you and am simply pointing out another resource that contradicts that. Both resources are factual, yet different; that's what the word "inconsistency" means.

I was referring only to the inconsistencies within the show itself. You brought in toy bios. If the bio says that BlackZarak is resized from MegaZarak, I'm not challenging that. It's just inconsistent with how both the toy and the animation show a normal-sized Headmaster click onto a body that is described as that small. One of you said that the Zarak Headmaster connects directly with the BlackZarak transtector instead of connecting to a larger head, but I have to ask you to reconsider that statement: citizens of Planet Master are roughly consistent in size, so your suggestion that BlackZarak is roughly the size of Chromedome is pretty wrong. If you revisit animation or look up how the toys transform, they still Head On the same way.

If you want toy bios taken into account, the toy bios and manga indicate that Fortress and Grand are the same body-type and transform into the same model of spacecraft called "Maximus." Body-type has a specific definition in Transformers lore that excludes resized characters. There are many giant versions of smaller characters who are not considered the same body-type. Therefore if the fiction is to be trusted, Fortress and Grand are the exact same size. That may contradict another equally valid resource, but that's just inconsistency.

Please don't challenge me to watch the shows. Of course, I've watched them. If you watch the episode when Ultra Magnus dies, Fortress visits Metroplex. Fortress lands his spacecraft mode next to Metroplex's base mode and is much smaller, but when they say farewell at the end of the episode, they stand before each other having vastly changed in size. That's just an animation inconsistency. There's tonnes of them where vastly different-sized characters seem similar in size. My point was that if Char A and Char B have appeared the same size before, then Char B and Char C have also appeared the same size, and so on, it can be argued that God Ginrai is almost as tall as Metroplex by the transitive property. I know it's dumb, but it's one way of looking at it.

It's important to note once more that I'm not challenging any of the ways you choose to look at it; I'm simply saying that the fact that there are so many ways to see it at all indicates at least some inconsistency.

 

If this is adressed at me, all I will say is that using different shows doesnt make a point, especially when the character in question doesnt appear in both. You can only draw indirect correlations using a basic anchor. As I said I dont want to waste more time in pointless bickering. You want to believe that Grand and Fortress are the same size, because of body type? Do your thing. All I am saying that both the bio and his size compared to what others TFs appear in that show tell a different story.

 

Didn't see this until now.

Many Transformers do have parts that shrink or grow for transformations to work. That explains many things.

But the toy/manga/cartoon have BlackZarak using Head On the same way that Scorponok did. Not opening a can of worms. It's just what happened.

 

I am pretty sure BlackZarak doesnt head on. He does Megatransform. He doesnt use a headmaster gimmick in masterforce.

And BTW: No hostilities meant. I am fast typing because I am at work, and sometimes it gets the impression its rough.

 

I was addressing the show. You brought in the bio. All fiction should be up for grabs.
It was never bickering on my end, but if it was on yours, I'm glad it's over.

If this is the indirect correlation you're referring to, I know it's pretty loose. Again, just an inconsistency, not a solid plot hole.

 

I was referring to all three of the toy/manga/cartoon as the same person who does Head On in general, and he does the same way as MegaZarak.

 

As I said I didnt mean to be hostile.

The only indirect correlation you can draw is that Grand in Masterforce was about Combiner sized in bot mode (give or take) vs the headmaster Juniors who were roughly car bot size. Fortress Maximus is a City bot rougly the size of Metroplex, which makes a car bot roughly the size of his 'shoe soles'.

 

No Idea what happens in the Manga. In Masterforce aka the show, he doesnt do it, because for all intents and purposes by the time he arrives in lunar orbit MegaZarak simply doesnt exist anymore.

 

Not sure if more can be made from the show, but more can easily be made if you consider all fiction.

 

I have to respectfully dissagree here. Lumping them all up will cause problems. As you said this is cause for more inconsistency.
Take fortress for example: In G1 Marvel he is just a big bot.In the toon he is a city bot.