Hasbro Revenue off 12% Since close of TRU

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by deaculpa, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. BigRed

    BigRed Well-Known Member

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    Hasbro has never seen a cent of the box office for any of the movies. Ever. Your angle has no effect in this discussion. That was part of their original contract and how well the movies perform does not put a single cent in Hasbro's pocket directly.

    But fact stands that even a underperforming movie will STILL move more stock and toys and licensing deals worldwide than a year like 2018, which had no cartoon and no movie and no form of any media other than a comic book that sells 9,000 units average (and that is counting digital sales) until the Month of October. And that's a fact, most specifically it's a fact that if Brian Goldner didn't mention in a Investors Report talking PRECISELY about the comparison of revenue from Q3 2017 to Q3 2018 then he would be literally avoiding the ENTIRE SUBJECT of the actual meeting.

    Hell it's not even just Transformers, he said Iron Man 3 Toyline underperformed compared to Avengers toyline, he's explained revenue drops in Star Wars one year after Force Awakens and so on. "Movies make toys sell and non-movie years end up looking bad in comparison" is a reality outside of the brand as well.
     
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  2. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    I find that hard to believe without hard proof - got any links to this contract? Or anything that is more reliable than just a name on the internet trying to defend a dead movie franchise?

    You mean the movie toylines that by all signs appear to have severely underperformed in the past two incarnations AND are just being crapped out with Studio Series without really giving a shit?

    No, that's just you desperately trying to defend the Bayformers - except it doesn't work because TLJ made over a billion dollars and Marvel has yet to produce a box office flop (the Inhumans thing doesn't count because that was stuff made for TV tied together into a film).

    And at no point did I say anything that contradicted the fact movie years do better than non-movie years afterward. But when the movie year is not good...that means the following year is EVEN WORSE.
     
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  3. Bezuul

    Bezuul Well-Known Member

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    All of this makes me think of how all of our figures will end up in a landfill eventually. 5 Below is just trying to kill us with gobs of sugar on discount next to a neck brace that holds your phone. I’m reminded of Schumacher’s Riddler.

    As for the toy distribution problem? STOCK YOUR WEBSITE. Create a system of distribution and do it yourself without hiking the price on your own products you psycho nuts.
     
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  4. BigRed

    BigRed Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha, no, you're not going to get a single piece of "link" simply because of how you just painted yourself with your delusions , specifically because you're showing zero sources yourself about how much money Hasbro made from the last film in your mad ranting about the failure it was. We literally just had people suing them under suspicions that they sugar-coated a statement about TOYS R US and you think they're going to be messing around with hard numbers? You're biased and loaded as hell to the point where you're pointing fingers at people and putting words in their mouths to win internet arguments. What the hell is that? Do you own Mattel stock or something to get this invested?

    Jesus christ look at your tone. "DESPERATELY trying to defend the movies" that I have absolutely loathed in every single post about their subject I've made in this site? wHAT? Look at the way you write, so affected. I'm sincerely having trouble gauging if you're mental or trying to play some kind of comedy bit. I'm going to ignore your shitty behaviour because I prefer to leave flame wars to nutcases like you, so hear this, IN ALL CAPS so you can get your head out of your ass and pay attention to basic logic:

    Not every single Marvel movie made the same money. NOT EVERY SINGLE MARVEL MOVIE MADE THE SAME TOYLINE REVENUE. NEGATIVE COMPARISONS HAPPEN EVEN BETWEEN SUCCESFUL LINES IF ONE WAS FAR MORE SUCCESFUL THAN THE OTHER. NOBODY EVER IMPLIED MARVEL MOVIES MADE LESS MONEY THAN TRANSFORMERS SO YOU HAVE NO REASON TO EVEN TAKE THAT STANCE IN THIS ARGUMENT.

    THESE NUMBERS IN THIS THREAD ARE COMPARISONS OF Q3 2018, WHICH HAD NO PRODUCT BEING PUSHED BY ANY MEDIA, TO Q3 2017, WHICH HAD PRODUCT BEING PUSHED TO RETAILERS BY A MOVIE AND AN ONGOING TV CARTOON IN ALL WORLDWIDE TERRITORIES while THIS YEAR DID NOT. THEIR NEW CARTOONS STARTED LITERALLY LAST MONTH IN USA AND STILL HADN'T REACHED MANY MARKETS BY OCTOBER, SO IT'S LITERALLY ONLY AMOUNTING FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS OF THIS QUARTER. IT'S PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR THIS YEAR'S Q3 TO HAVE OUTPERFORMED LAST YEAR'S Q3;

    BRIAN GOLDNER IS INFORMING THE INVESTORS OF THE COMPANY, NOT INTERNET ANGRY PEOPLE LIKE YOU, THAT IS THE REASON THE FRANCHISE IS DOWN COMPARED TO LAST YEAR AT THE SAME TIME FRAME. UNLESS YOU WANT TO SERIOUSLY ARGUE THAT MORE RETAILERS BUY STUCK OF FRANCHISES WITH NO ONGOING MEDIA THAN THOSE WITH ON GOING MEDIA, SPITTING IN THE FACE OF INDUSTRY HISTORY FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS, YOU WILL ACCEPT THIS FACT OR DIE ON A VERY EMBARRASINGLY INSANE HILL.

    THE PRESENTATION WAS FOR THE COMPARISON OF Q3 2018 TO Q3 2017. FOR THE LAST TIME, THIS IS WHAT MATTERS HERE, NOT THE COMPARISON OF Q3 2018 TO 2016 OR 2014 OR WHICHEVER YOU WANT IT TO BE SO YOU CAN WHINE THAT THE COMPANY IS DYING.

    BRIAN GOLDNER IS NOT TRYING TO SAVE HIS ASS, BRIAN GOLDNER IS NOT SOME KIND OF MEGALOMANIAC THAT ONLY CARES ABOUT THE MOVIES, BRIAN GOLDNER IS INFORMING THE INVESTORS OF THE CONTEXT BEHIND A COMPARISON OF REVENUE.

    That is it, that is the hard facts, if you need a source read a book on common sense, nobody will spoonfeed a cynical madhouse like you.
     
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  5. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    Yes, the massive failure that pretty much fucked Paramount over to the point Hasbro themselves had to step in to fund the Bumblebee film, because TLK lost the HuaHua Media contract Paramount desperately needed to fund future films (and not just Transformers ones). Don't believe me? Go ask SilverOptimus if I'm bullshitting here.

    As for you not providing a link, why should I believe you if you don't even provide evidence of such grandiose claims of the films somehow not being nearly as critical in ways you're denying? TLK was a disaster, full stop, and denying that is just sticking fingers in your ears and pretending you can't hear the truth.

    But then again, the only one losing here is you since you're not getting the TLK sequel. And if Bumblebee fails, well...there won't be any more 'movie' years.
     
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  6. GrimLocke

    GrimLocke Cultus Volcanicus

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    Maybe Trigger and Takara have plans for 2020, since Imaishi’s going into film...

    Trigger Reveals More Details on Promare Anime
     
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  7. Sammael

    Sammael MightyMegatron from ATT

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    A few days ago, the online store I used to preorder Novastar notified me that Hasbro had canceled all POTP singles that were supposed to be shipped a while ago and they were forced to resort to ordering from Hong Kong to fill preorders. Last wave for EU was also changed to have all repeats and no Novastar.
     
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  8. RKillian

    RKillian http://www.rktoyandhobby.com

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    Unsurprising. Leftovers solicited as fake solid cases has been standard operating procedure with Hasbro for years.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  9. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking The world has moved on...we've always said.

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    It means distribution sucked in Q3. This could still be connected to the fallout from TRU and/or issues with some of the retailers suddenly wanting more product to fill the vacuum. But yeah, this seems to be Hasbro saying we couldn't get all our product out in time for one reason or another...which seemed pretty evident something was amiss between May and August.

    But with Transformers sales up double-digits in Q3, there should be plenty of holiday product.
     
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  10. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    How and when does HASBRO get paid? When the retailers get shipment?

    If that’s the case then how can sales be up double digits if they weren’t getting the goods out to retailers?

    Or is there a contract in place where the agreement is “x” amount of product for “x” amount of money?

    If that’s the case does that mean HASBRO owes them more product?
     
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  11. deaculpa

    deaculpa Stand Alone Complex

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    we may be thinking too hard about this... e.g., transformers may not have been the product with issues meeting demand.
    standard business practice is to invoice after delivery with payment due in some specific amount of time (30/60/90 days) but we have no way of knowing their specific contract requirements.
     
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  12. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    It just seems strange that they do higher sales in the same quarter that they have problems getting the product out.
     
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  13. deaculpa

    deaculpa Stand Alone Complex

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    example:
    Q1: i sell 1 widget with no problems shipping.
    Q2: I sell 3 widgets, but am only able to ship 2 due to logistic issues with the increasesd demand. here we still have increased sales while having delivery issues. its possible that the logistics/delivery issues were a function of the increased demand.

    just a guess, we have no way of knowing how that really panned out.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  14. BigRed

    BigRed Well-Known Member

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    How bad the movie performed has zero, absolutely significantly zero, influence on the fact that Hasbro shipped more product and signed more licensing deals in 2017's Q3 thanks to a Movie and a Cartoon pushing the brand to retailers in the entire world compared to THIS Q3. I have literally never ever implied TLK performed well, I was pointing out to you that you're fucking insane if you think Brian Goldner is doing anything other than what he is supposed to do when he explains to someone that non-movie years decrease revenue. And you keep behaving so erratic and crazy I'm starting to think it was hopeless. I'm starting to think you might actualy be mental all around, not just about children toys.

    God what was that last line? Listen to yourself. "The only one losing here is you" because... I'm not getting a sequel to... a movie I hated? Are you insane? Should I even waste time asking you if you're out of your mind when you clearly obviously are?

    Reassess your priorities dude. You're so bent out of shape about an argument you're trying to change the subject AND pretend you can decide my personal opinions and desires at the same time. What is wrong with you?
     
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  15. ZapRowsdower

    ZapRowsdower Selling oddities in a shack. In the woods.

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    The distribution problems have SNOWBALLED. They've been there for a long time: when MANY customers complain about not finding your product, you should do something about it - not roll your eyes and deny the problem at every convention, for YEARS.
    It's a simple concept I like to talk about: being stupid is fine. You can be stupid for a long time, in fact. But sooner or later, if you keep ignoring an obvious problem, it WILL bite you on the @$$. Why did we hit this point now, Hasbro? Because you and Paramount ignored the mounting evidence that Bay TF movies were declining badly (in sales) - it's called running against the wall. Finally, with the latest TLK disaster, they switch directors (which I strongly believe will help the brand, but could have been done 2-3 movies ago!).

    I noticed something bizarre this year: final wave syndrome hasn't happened!!!! Other than Optimal Optimus, I'm seeing the final waves of PotP in every Target/Walmart I go to. This is HIGHLY unusual. So what happened? TRU went bankrupt. Hasbro looked for a vacuum to fill, and finally addressed the piss-poor distribution (i.e. they shipped product with high demand!). This is my same argument for Bay NOT helping the TF brand at all - when the movies fail, you'll notice a higher push of non-movie Generation product. Hasbro actually does have a safety net for bad ideas: your fan wallet. :rolleyes2  They raise prices on Generations products because their core audience will continue paying the tolls, no matter how high. It's a mess, imo.
    Last quarter, Hasbro CEO Goldner assured investors that the TRU fallout would NOT hurt the company because they had plans in place. Their stock ROSE when the TRU bankruptcy announcement was made; every other toy maker's stock dropped. Why?

    I don't care about Goldner's millionaire smile if it's pure bullsh*t from his mouth! And let's face it, that's his job - to spin his company data into pure success, even with an obvious problem like TRU. He could have been more transparent about future problems, but he lied about the whole thing. Well, it turns out that 10% of your business getting kicked out from under you DOES affect your bottom-line. It turns out that when Goldner promised other business partners... he MAY have been overly optimistic (or outright dishonest!).
     
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  16. RKillian

    RKillian http://www.rktoyandhobby.com

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    I'd ask what's wrong with somebody that thinks product sold to retailers is equivalent to product sold to customers. You know what happens when retailers can't sell wave one? They don't buy wave two. That delayed reaction has caused more than its share of misdiagnosises.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  17. ZapRowsdower

    ZapRowsdower Selling oddities in a shack. In the woods.

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    If the other guy turned it personal, I'm sorry you have to deal with that. But don't stoop to THAT level. We're a community here! Let's keep the criticisms to the corp/brand, NOT each other.

    Also, to address the movie issue? I realize the new toy model is to create a movie and then sell the toys, but... isn't it a terrible model? Hasbro is not creating enduring brand appeal - the appeal comes and goes with ONE SUMMER of movies. I feel there's a better storytelling method of selling these products, where the brand BUILDS from one Summer to another. Instead, Hasbro seems focused on re-selling the same toys every year, much in the same way that the Pokemon franchise keeps re-inventing itself without ever evolving (no pun intended).

    If BB movie fails (which I doubt), Hasbro is f*cked. If the next movie fails, YIKES. In other words, is it the best idea to roll your fortune with the fickle success or failure of a Hollywood movie? And let's face facts: Hasbro has not had a successful cartoon in many years (excluding RB).

    But hey, everyone knows the TF brand is basically in decline ("dying"?), because HAsbro continues to point out the success of other brands (in terms of growth). The TF line is dependent on movies (as Goldner outlined); that's a very bad situation for TFs. :eek: 
     
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  18. ZapRowsdower

    ZapRowsdower Selling oddities in a shack. In the woods.

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    What happens when TLK wave one includes ONLY toys most customers already own or don't want?

    Can we really hold Walmart or TRU accountable for the assortment decisions? When a Marvel figure is impossible to find, do we blame scalpers or can we ask Hasbro to produce more of specific figures to meet specific demand?

    Not sure if you were addressing my comment, but I had to point out the flaw in your simplistic perspective. You're not entirely wrong, though! I'm only suggesting Hasbro is telling you to say what you said. Did you talk to the retailers regarding this issue? Because I'm sure they'd agree with me more than you. :eek: 
     
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  19. Dachande

    Dachande MULTI-QUOTE- USE IT. Super Mod

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    Not to ignore the other items being discussed, but distribution issues may have the nation wide transportation shortages as part of the blame.
    The trucking industry has been suffering major shortages in drivers and on-time delivery schedules.
    On top of that, transportation costs have been skyrocketing due to fuel charges and licensing fees.

    Not everything wrong is caused by the producing company.
     
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  20. RKillian

    RKillian http://www.rktoyandhobby.com

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    No, you snuck your comment in while I was typing. I was addressing anybody who argued that Hasbro's sales were the end-all-be-all. It's very short term thinking, like when morons try to rob the same bank twice, oblivious to the possibility that security might be ready for them this time. You can only make things difficult downstream for so long before it catches up to you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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