I'll never understand how people can say the Bayverse TF designs are BAD.

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by NGW, May 5, 2018.

  1. black prime

    black prime Solitary Lion

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Posts:
    154
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Likes:
    +123
    Actually, if you remember, there's a protective panel behind the windshield that safeguards the Matrix of Leadership. So the windshield chest isn't really a problem since once Optimus is in robot mode, there will be an armor panel behind the windshield.
     
  2. Whomps

    Whomps The World's Okayest User

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Posts:
    1,973
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Likes:
    +4,046
    They can look really ridiculous and busy, with many characters looking like they soldered together large piles of scrapmetal and called it a day. Decepticons in particular can get really bad.

    This is coming from someone who has MPM Bumblebee and Prime and really likes them
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Autobot Hound

    Autobot Hound Combaticon

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Posts:
    841
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +826
    I don't know if anyone else has already mentioned this, but- I found it very hard to tell the characters apart. When Megatron tore Jazz in half in the first movie that scene had zero impact on me because I couldn't even tell what was going on, or to whom. I had to find out later- OHHH he killed Jazz, that's what happened! When you can't even tell when a character gets killed, or have any idea who it was- that's bad character design imo. Almost all of them looked about the same to me, except Op and Bee because they had some color to them.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  4. Altihex

    Altihex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Posts:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Likes:
    +181
    First, getting the opinion part out of the way - I think the Bayverse films have been ... at best ... an interpretation of Transformers.

    There's shapechanging robots beating the scrap out of each other. That's a legitimate, but rather ... simplistic ... POV of the franchise.

    Bay's execution of that POV, however ... yes, I'm a cranky old dino, in a lot of ways. But his execution inarguably is tacky at points, and wound up a hot mess.

    This can be seen in the designs; they're impressions of Transformers, roughly mirroring the 'bots we know, but not getting them quite right. Optimus looks like an artist's sketch of Optimus composed from witness accounts - he's recognizable, but the details are just not right.

    Look at the (relatively) positive response to the Bumblebee trailers. I might not entirely like 'Bee's design, but even I have to admit that it's a massive step in the right direction; he's a 'Bug, again (not that I minded the Camaro, but the IDW version with the G1 head was much more to my liking - a stronger 'Bee without the funky face mask is one I can support).

    Likewise, the G1 aesthetics of many of the other Cybertronians are very, very appealing to me. Siege, for being Generations, is likely going to have a huge crossover appeal; the parents and others my age who watched TFTM, will see themselves in the awe in their younger relatives' eyes at seeing a Ravage who LOOKS like Ravage transforming out of Soundwave's chest when they go to Bumblebee in December.

    There's very good reasons why the phrase "the Transformers I wanted to see on the big screen" is being banded about around Bumblebee - it's because it very much MIGHT be that movie.

    Throw out the locker room humor and the unrecognizable 'bots, and get back to the basics of Transformers. I'm willing to accept a 'Bee who doesn't quite look G1, if I can actually like the material (this is why I found Prime, and the new RiD, far better than the Bayverse).
     
    • Like Like x 5
  5. KabutoRyder

    KabutoRyder www.taurianfilms.com

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Posts:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    37
    Location:
    Texas
    Likes:
    +38
    Facebook:
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    I cant stand looking at the majority of them on screen. But I am collecting the Studio Series figures...I do really like some of the designs like Sideswipe and Hound, but agree with others that have said they just look too fn busy on screen. Simple isn't bad and can still be cool.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. herugrim

    herugrim N/A

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Posts:
    1,170
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +893
    Ebay:
    Vast majority of people hating movie designs are die hard Geewunners. Don't let their denials fool you, the puritan transformers fans are dominant on thus forum.

    Expecting big boxie humanoid robots out of a live action adaptation was and is just plain stupid, like a hyper advanced alien lifeform that can disguise itself as an every day terrain machine would have doors for shoulders and trunks for torsos instead of completely reconfiguring into something capable of versatile combat scenarios, and that they have to be humanoid with human faces complete with noses and eyes and human hands with five fingers and human feet shaped like human boots was, and is, a stupid concept.

    They are alien robots, not human cosplayers.

    And as far as source material they've actually stuck to that pretty well. Optimus Prime, Megatron, Jaz. Soundwave, Shockwave, and Sentinel Prime were all pretty faithful adaptations with characters like bumblebee, ironhide, ratchet, and Starscream being more liberal interpretations but still having roots in the source. Autobots fighting decepticons, Optimus death, Megatron become galvatron, devestator combiner, space bridges, and dinobots all lifted from G1 and reimagined.

    Studio series really helps outline his good these designs are. I like G1 but I also like the films, RID2001, Unicron Trilogy, and Prime. The only designs I think are legitimately bad are animated and nuRID.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. Atomic Tofu

    Atomic Tofu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2017
    Posts:
    3,279
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +3,457
    YouTube (Legacy):
    I just jumped in...and just read the initial sentence and not fully....
    Bayverse is basically shellformers? Skeletal forms underneath shortcut panels
    now to read and enjoy the other comments ;) 

    EDIT:So I read...

    I think my sentiments reflected (in those that don't like bayverse), but it isn't quite clearly manifested....

    Primarily: Bayverse is basically BS; most adults subconsciously acknowledge the transformations are BS., that's why it takes 3rd, 4th, etc parties to come up with passable transformer facsimiles.

    Secondarily: Those same adults don't understand the anthropomorphic qualities like bearded robots and elderly robots. A robot that is old is one thing, a robot with human geriatric qualities another.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Nelomaxwell

    Nelomaxwell I gave you power

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2018
    Posts:
    1,174
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Bucktown
    Likes:
    +931
    They're not pleasant to look at. They look like twisted metal in humanoid form.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Posts:
    14,036
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Location:
    Monticello, IN
    Likes:
    +11,876
    Awwww, generalization and projection. Adorable.


    Now, for those that don't cry in the night that the boogieGEEWUNNERman is going to take away their toys, look at threads criticizing the toys or movie designs. Those posters come from EVERY angle, including people who started the franchise during A/E/C. HARDLY the GEEWUNNER boogieman that you're selling.

    Is it possible you just have bad taste? I mean, I HAVE met more than one person that thought the Pander Brothers could draw.

    Why would an inhuman death machine that's unstoppable in regards to human weaponry even NEED a disguise? You overlogic this franchise and it falls apart from the start. ESPECIALLY with the caliber of fiction that Bay has brought us.

    Would alien robots need ANY of that? Wouldn't they just look like the machines from the Matrix. Once again, what dispels plausibility for G1 dispels plausibility for Bayverse.

    Did you type that with a straight face?

    And some people think that the series' aesthetics that you detest are the highlight of the franchise. It's almost like it's left to taste.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Cryptwire

    Cryptwire Cybertronian Engineer/Sniper

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Posts:
    1,507
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Location:
    Restored & Unified Cybertron
    Likes:
    +1,309
    The Bayverse designs were a hit and miss... I’m just not sure if the misses outweigh the hits.

    I could say probably that all the designs from the 2007 movie were good, being new and all.

    But the more it was talked about, I guess the more I became aware of the extant flaws.

    So fast forward to RoTF... designs were still generally good. Nothing really that catches attention as much as the 2007 movie did (again, being new).

    But Megatron’s arms were really distracting in RoTF. I could see how fans complained about his lobster arms. I could also start to see that they made Megatron to have this beast look. Not a big fan of Cons = beast looks, autobots = normal humanoid looks as much as red optics = evil, blue optics = good.

    I also had a problem with some of the designs of the protoforms that landed in the desert. Some of them were just ugly and uninspired, even if they were cannon fodder.

    I only say that because fast forward to DoTM, some of the designs of the Decepticon protoforms were great. Particularly the Con who jumped from his ship into the window inside the collapsing building. I love that design.

    DoTM would also showcase the Dreads. Love those designs. Could’ve added some different colors other than grey, but, eh, they were excellent. I love them.

    Back to RoTF. I really had not much problems with the twins’ designs, tbh. They were there for comic relief so they accomplished that mission. RoTF Soundwave was so kickass. I love love that Soundwave.

    Remember, this was about the time Transformers Prime came on TV, so when I saw RoTF Soundwave, I had such high hopes for the third movie that it would take up that Soundwave design from Prime, along with its personality and characterization.

    But, fast forward to DoTM again, the Soundwave here was all sorts of disappointing. He became smaller, cackled like a witch, still did not take creative liberties to give him back his vocoder voice. Soundwave there was a disappointment (notwithstanding the general set up and pace of the story and dialogue. It was just too rushed).

    Galvatron was just ugly as hell, sorry. His eyes alone were just ugly. And that big hole on his chest was distracting.

    Sentinel’s design was awesome.

    Que was terrible.

    Wheelie and Brains were good.

    Starscream I’ve really had no problems with at the beginning... but later as it was talked about, his overall design and looks could’ve been better. Transformers Cyberverse Starscream is good, so was Transformers Prime’s.

    Hound was, eh, good, I suppose. But I guess it’s not so much the beard as it is their noses. It’s the same issue I’d have with drift and crosshairs. Too human noses and they didn’t have to be that way, which is one of the reasons the noses for Optimus, ratchet and ironhide work, because they’re not too human.. they still retain some of the “alien ness” with their noses.

    Drift... it’s just too humanoid for my tastes. I mean, come on. They didn’t need to have an exact Asian face, right to the nose. His Accent would’ve already indicated his characterization.

    Sideswipe was awesome.

    Sideways was awesome (got killed fast).

    The fembots were just simply horrendous.

    Crosshairs was... eh... so, so. I guess the trenchcoat was creative but his face was just probably too distracting. Again, it’s the exact human-like nose and face.

    The dinobot designs were underwhelming, which their characterization just made worse. Just Too spiky, like Megatron.

    Barricade in the first movie and TLK were good.

    The wreckers designs were mostly good, just don’t know what to feel about the fat one.

    Devastator was good at first. As time went on, after seeing high moon’s bruticus, devastator could’ve been a whole lot better.

    To make this short, I think the only character whose looks I wasn’t able to put in an avatar was Megatron’s. The sad thing was, I wanted to use him for a profile pic. But his design was not as good as Prime’s. The thing about it is, there are several concept art on the internet that make him look so good. The statue that Prime Studios made for him is one example of a great design.

    Again, throughout bay’s movies, it’s been a hit/miss. Hopefully Travis Knight can do a better job and so far, I’m liking what I’m seeing.

    Knight bumblebee is already better in design than his bay predecessors.
     
  11. ErickCruz

    ErickCruz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Posts:
    1,087
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Likes:
    +1,600
    Twitter:
    Instagram:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    I will credit Bay's designers for giving us modern interpretations of our favorite childhood toys and toon, but the problem i had was all about familiarity.
    S̶o̶m̶e̶ Most design choices were definite head scratchers, and out of all of them i only liked Evasion mode Prime, TLK Nitro Zeus and DotM Shockwave.
     
  12. TexasBEAST

    TexasBEAST Arch-Analyzer

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Posts:
    179
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Location:
    The Province of the Solitary Astral Phenomenon
    Likes:
    +144
    I was impressed with the early Bayverse design promotional art as a matter of engineering and techno style. Initially I was excited by them because it was clear that a lot of work had gone into them.

    But their alien look did them in, for me. That's not what I knew, growing up. It's not what I remembered. It's not what they were. So the Bayformers just ended up coming off as overwrought KO impostors to me.

    G1 designs can be given greater details and fancier paint finishes, and made to look more impressive than their old school plasticky selves, while still staying very true to their original forms. (Look at 3P G1 MP toys like FansToys.)

    Humanoid body shapes and facial features are part and parcel of this property. It doesn't make a lot of sense objectively, but it's still firmly engrained in the property. TFs were originally meant to be both vehicle alt modes and action figures in one, so most of their bot modes were supposed to be reminiscent of humanoids.

    Decepticons were not supposed to be created or designed to be evil monsters. They were originally militaristic in function, and arguably in form. But more importantly, they were Cybertronian robots who disagreed with public policy. And there is an extremely important lesson to be learned from history that one's enemies ought not be simplistically posited as monsters, thereby diminishing from or otherwise misrepresenting their cause. That diminishment or misrepresentation can be thought to be equally monstrous, in itself.

    Bayformers spit on the original designs and the original ethos of the Transformers. They just use the transforming gimmick and some of the character names. They're shallow copies or reimaginings. And that shallowness is their undoing.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. PaxStarkist

    PaxStarkist BAY-TALITY

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Posts:
    275
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Likes:
    +282
    I look at it this way:
    Bay shows us what could be done in live-action (regardless of You opinion)
    Knight shows us what should be done in live-action (with "Bumblebee" and hopefully more)
     
    • Like Like x 6
  14. misfire19d

    misfire19d Not a writer. Not an illustrator. Just a fan.

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Posts:
    902
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Likes:
    +1,809
    Whoever coined the term “tinfoil in a blender” deserves a medal.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. PanduhmusPrime

    PanduhmusPrime Professional Face-Ripper

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2018
    Posts:
    113
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Likes:
    +102
    Ebay:
    YouTube (Legacy):
    Maybe the designs aren't what some people like, i personally like certain designs, but I've always wanted something that the Bumblebee movie shown us. I think that G1 and Movieverse work quite well together. I do like how the designs are more unique and realistic.

    Also Prime should always have his mouthplate on, and the arcee triplets designs are terrible to me.
     
  16. shellformer

    shellformer @

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2013
    Posts:
    2,055
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Likes:
    +1,190
    The whole point of transformers is to be charming and stylish. If realism was a big concern then they either wouldn't transform at all or they'd be semi-metallic blobs capable of shapeshifting into anything. All those moving parts are a massive liability. The concept of "transforming robots" is fundamentally silly so the best thing to do is to have fun with it.


    My problem with the various movie designs is that while the idea of making them more alien is a good one, the aesthetic chosen is often messy and indistinct.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. StrangePlanet

    StrangePlanet G1

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Posts:
    3,607
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +2,767
    Well, I don't like those designs. I just don't. Personal taste. Just like how I don't like artichokes. I just don't. Personal taste. You don't have to understand it. Hell, I don't understand it. It just is. I can't make myself like artichokes nor can I explain it. It's not a choice.
     
  18. CountDrunkula

    CountDrunkula Sturdy Beard

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Posts:
    1,047
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Likes:
    +876
    I think an argument can be made that, regardless of whether any individual likes them, the overall aesthetics of the Bayverse TFs are, objectively, bad. The designs are overly busy and simultaneously somehow undifferentiated. There is no school of design that endorses that sort of thing. Even if you argue that they are somehow intended to be Impressionistic in nature, it is Impressionism appropriated for an entirely incongruent artform (motion pictures, that is); or, at least, incongruent in the manner that Bay attempts to use it.

    TL; DR: They fugly. Fugly does not automatically equal bad per textbook definition, but per the current Western cultural climate, it does. Case closed.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  19. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Posts:
    10,526
    Trophy Points:
    272
    Location:
    Athens Greece
    Likes:
    +9,576
    I cant understand it either, this thing is beauty personified 99ccd2ae-dcd7-49f5-a98f-4a5de565be29_1.a718240c9abe6341c70b520c4de7cfd8.jpeg
     
    • Like Like x 6
  20. MetalStorm

    MetalStorm Click Click Boom!

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Posts:
    1,830
    Trophy Points:
    242
    Location:
    Richlands, North Carolina
    Likes:
    +2,120
    I just wanna troop build this guy, have like 20 laying around the house.

    Thing seriously looks like a bad (good?) Dinotrux/TF crossover toy.