Classics are acceptable. This line would never sell amongst the public.

 

My thoughts exactly. The old designs are awesome and I love 'em but I prefer updates to characters, not just straight up rehashes.

Me too  

 

Did I ever say that they didn't have repaints? And what makes you think a toy trend from 20 years ago makes sense today? Do I need to point out the spiderman 3 stuff clogging shelves in stores because it's all the same character over and over? Regardless of being a different color, and whether you like it or not TF's are toys and parents buy toys for kids. What a lot of parents won't do, is shell out $20 a pop on 3 jeep wranglers just because they're different colors, which leaves the last one probably being a shelfwarmer(rollbar), or 3 wrx's leaving the last one to be a shelfwarmer(ricochet), or 3 vipers leaving the last one to warm shelves(sunstreaker).

Get my point? The alt line ended, the end of the line repaints are still warming shelves in places, and it probably would have been far more successful with more molds.

Unless you're seriously trying to tell me you're happy with repaint after repaint after repaint, rather than getting a new figure altogether?

Plus there would be the problem of trying to mass market 30 year old car designs, I really don't see it happening unless they did it in limited quantities(like companies in Japan don't seem to have a problem doing), but every time they make something in limited quantities in the US people whine about it for months; and when there are enough, people will wait till it goes to clearance if it's a higher ticket item.

 

For every fan who complains about even the most awesome repaint, I can show you a fan who DEMANDS character X to be repainted out of character Y BECAUSE IT WAS DONE 20 YEARS AGO.

Also, repaints aren't a "trend". They're an economic necessity. Oftentimes redecos are already calculated within the development costs. Example: You can either have two toys that are mediocre molds, but are never ever repainted. Or you can have a really GOOD mold that gets a really well-done repaint. Which one do you prefer?

 

Oh, they can be compared somewhat fairly. My point was that Nevermore wasn't even trying to do so. He simply threw out a flippant anti-G1 remark as has been fashionable the last few years and provided us with some incredibly slanted numbers to make his case. I just felt inclined to provide the other side of the story, lest uninformed readers take it as undisputed truth.

Or we can go the other way with that, calling every single Alternator up to, what, Prowl, a repaint since the Japanese had a Binaltech edition before us. If you can't see the difference between interline and intraline rereleases, then I don't think I can help you. You might as well turn yourself in for copyright infringement on the basis that someone somewhere sometime in recorded history used some of the words you just typed.

 

"Anti-G1"? Dude, did I claim anywhere that I hate G1? Did I cite the remolds/retools within the G1 line as an example for why G1, in my opinion, "sucks"? Stop putting words in my mouth. All I'm doing is pointing out that redecos have been part of the Transformers brand ever since the holy days of G1. I don't claim it was "bad" back then. All I'm saying is, it worked back then, so why is it suddenly bad today?

I could refute that claim too (Windcharger, Shockblast and Wheeljack were all available in the US before their Takara counterparts came out in Japan), but I assume that's yet another case where my "incredibly slanted numbers" are irrelevant because they just serve to "make my case"?

Furthermore, I could also point out that "Hasbro acquiring the rights to sell a toy in the USA that has already been released in Japan before Hasbro even took notice" is an entirely different thing than "Hasbro and Takara designing a toy together which comes out in Japan a month or two before the Hasbro version hits US retail". But then again, just slanted numbers to make my case.

If you can't see how a collector-aimed side-line based on realistic cars, which in turn means expensive licenses, with no cartoon or anything to promote it and thus automatically aiming at a smaller target audience than a "main" line needs redecos even more than such an aforementioned "mainline", then I don't think I can help you either.

And this, my friends, is the point where our dear friends manages to lose all his credibility over one totally ridiculous statement.

 

Unfortunately for every fan who says "OMG THEY DID IT THAT WAY 20 YEARS AGO DO IT AGAIN!" I can show you 5 kids who couldn't give 2 shits, and easily twice as many sets of parents, That's the issue you're not seeing. Adults are not the target audience for a toy line(with the exception of things like the masterpiece, but I already mentioned the problems with the market for those outside of Japan).

And no, I'm not saying all repaints suck, but again when you're talking about a figure that's one primary color, and all they did was make the jeep red instead of yellow, or the pinto blue instead of green, it's the same figure. And when you keep doing that multiple times, people WILL lose interest, otherwise the alternators would still be going strong.

And as far as good repaints vs mediocre molds, not all of the alternator molds are that great either.

 

Guys, GUYS, GUYS!

Please. Take it to the PM's. I started this thread to ask what people would like to see made for TF's if money wasn't an issue as it always seems to be. Not to launch Alt Wars #24. Now if we can get back to the topic of the thread...

Thank-you.

 

Quite frankly, I believe the reasons for the Alterators line's failure are a lot more complicated than "kids don't like repaints".

Letzt's start with the first wave, which consisted of NOTHING but Smokescreen. THAT'S a REAL problem there. Having only multiples of ONE toy to chose form is a LOT more problematic than having a variation of an existing toy later down the line. Wave 2 didn't help much, when the shelfwarming Smokescreen still filled out half of the case. After that came the horrible Summer Of 2004 Drought, when people had huge problems not only finding new Alternators toys, but new toys from ANY TF line.

After that, things would get marginally better, although you'd have highly anticipated toys such as Tracks or Meister initially only being available in one wave or two, whereas shelfwarmers such as Swindle would ship in five or so subsequent waves.

By that time, many retailers had already lost the interest in the line. It wasn't as bad as in the case of the 6" Titaniums, where a poor-performing first wave essentially killed the line before it ever had any actual chance to kick off, but still. Wal*Mart eventually dropped the Alternators line in 2005, which is why Hasbro decided to cancel the first assortment and launch a new one.

The first wave of the "bubble box" assortment was, in theory, a good selection. You'd have the obligatory carry-over from the last wave of the previous assortment, whom many people hadn't found yet (Prowl), a re-release of a highly sought-after toy from an older wave that was catching high prices on the aftermarket (Tracks), a redeco of an older toy which many fans had been demanding for YEARS (Sunstreaker) and an all-new mold. Essentially, something for everyone. And seriously - how the HELL could Hasbro have expected that Tracks (who people were willing to buy INSANE prices for on eBay before the re-release) would end up as a shelfwarmer?

I agree that Ricochet and Rollbar (ESPECIALLY Rollbar) were some of the poorest redeco the line saw. I mean, initially we got the likes of Silverstreak and Dead End, who were quite extensive retools, plus the really awesomely bizarre ones such as Battle Ravage or Shockblast. Redecos started to get repetitive with Decepticharge, and Swerve, although their status as rarities made them surprisingly sought-after still. Sunstreaker was DEMANDED by fans, so Hasbro figured they couldn't do much wrong there. But Ricochet and Rollbar? ESPECIALLY Rollbar. Duh. His deco is not even BASED on anything, nor is it particularly inspired. And, seriously, by this time the days of the second assortment were numbered, even though it would still survive for three more waves.

Another thing to factor in is the general CONCEPT of the line. As much as fans like "realistic cars" that turn into "G1 characters", many kids couldn't really relate to them REGARDLESS of whether they were repaints of an older toy or not, because they had no cartoon to back them up. And a line consisting of thirteen molds that are ALL cars (plus a Jeep, plus a Scion, plus a pickup) DOES get repetitive after a while, even without repaints. Also, as much as I loved the line, I admit that the transformations might have been quite frustrating for a seven-year-old.

So seriously, claiming that repaints were the MAIN reason for the line's failure is a bit short-sighted.

 

Lotta good points being made all around. I just don't care about any of 'em. Oh, and this thread has the most pompous, pseudo-intellectual sig I've ever seen.

Far as the OP, I'll never see it, but I'd buy it. If I had a choice, though, I'd prefer a design aesthetic more along the lines of Classics. Loved Alts for what they were, but in the end, Classics is just more fun to play with--although I'd like to see some >Voyager-class figures included, mebbe even a city-bot or two. Just to up the overall playability of the line with some bonus complexity points.

 

Wow....

I think that's the politest insult I've ever been given.

But to call me pompous, you would have to assume that I'm one of those die-hard Gee-wunners that aren't happy unless every new TF is some kind of G1 homage. That is not true as I've liked, bought and collected just about every TF produced. That's a statement of fact and not some brag about my collection is bigger than yours argument. I just had a discussion yesterday with one of my customers about what I'd do if I could make a TF line without any kind of budget constraint. I thought it was an intresting enough question to share here.

I also added a Beast Wars idea as well in this thread. And yet all anyone wants to do is war over the success/failure of Alts. Or in your case toss out an insult. But I gotta ask why the dig as you said that you didn't care about any of the points being tossed about?

As for this thread, I'd like to ask a Mod to delete it as the point has been lost amongst the bickering.

 

Neither your points nor your sig, guy. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

The only problem with this is, the cartoon had them "done wrong" to start with. They should have resembled the toys more.

I still have to say I prefer the toy design over the cartoon design.

 

Cool then, sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

I'm actually a fan of the toy designs as well, Ironhide was my first Autobot Car. (They were sold out of Sunstreakers.  ) But as cool as the toy was, it just didn't fit with the style of the other Cars or the show designs. And as I already have the G1 toys, and the nice middle ground that was the Botcon versions out of Energon Tow-Line. I'd like to see an Alt style G1 Vanette transform into a show accurate (or close a possible) robot. After all, if money was no object, that would be easy enough to do.

 

That's kind of what I was thinking it would be like Masterpiece G1, it would be awesome, but probably wouldn't sell well.

 

Yeah, it would be a dream come to if they got the rights to all of those old models of cars, but I'm fine with the new ones. It's actually really nice because they bring something fresh and new to old favourites. They display great with their G1 counterparts. Check out my collection and you'll see what I mean:

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=143743

If they made new ones that were the same models as the old ones...well I guess I'd just sell all my G1s, because it would look really repetitive having them all displayed together.

 

I had to recheck over the thread, but I think I've identified it. The tone of the sig matches the tone of the posts.  

 

No, it's not just you.   What you stated as your attraction to the Alts was also mine. The updating of G1 characters as real vehicles that are actually seen on the roads today.

And as for your suggestion of finishing off the line with the remaining core characters, I'm all over that. I really hope they do continue Alternators and do just that.


Now, to answer the original question in this thread, if I were able to see anything produced as a TF toyline without regard to expense, etc., it would be one of three things:

1. A line based on the original G1 characters and incorporating the following points:
   • Alternators-style reproductions of real-world alt modes (either modern-day or the original alt modes)
   • Masterpiece level of detail
   • Extremely detailed paint apps (right down to the dashboard panels in the cars)
   • High-quality plastics and rubber tires
   • Metal parts where appropriate
   • Intricate transformations allowing for optimal range of articulation
   • Sturdy bot modes with little to no kibble
   • Bot modes with a perfect balance between source material accuracy and realism (as in Alternators/Masterpiece)
   • Alt modes of the entire line made to a single scale (no giant cars or tiny trucks)
   • The absolute highest level of quality control
   • The absolute highest level of quality engineering, sclupting, parts and paint applications
2. A line featuring all of the points above, based on the movie characters. After having Alternators and Masterpiece around, what we've got for movie toys just doesn't cut it.
3. A line featuring all of the points above, based on The War Within

And if, for the purpose of this thread, we're saying that money is no object and Transformers are HOT, then the argument of "it wouldn't sell well" is a moot point.

 

Personally, I'd rather see all of G1 redone in Classics style, rather than Alts.