Does anyone remember Battle: Los Angeles? It was a pretty mediocre movie about Marines fighting aliens that seemed really cool when I was a high school freshman but soon realized it wasn’t very good. Does anyone remember the aliens?

Yeah, basically dark and edgy stick figures. However one scene from this movie sticks out to me, and it’s so small that most people probably miss it. During a firefight the marines kill one of the aliens, and in response another alien stops shooting and kneels down to drag the dead alien behind cover. That one little motion still makes me wonder about these things. Are they sentient? Do they feel emotion? Were those two aliens friends? Lovers? Do they love? It was such a human act for something that so clearly inhuman that it made me think. Such a simple act can characterize them so much inadvertently. Then of course a short period of time passed so I thought about Transformers, and realized I could not think of many equivalent scenes. Which ultimately means I feel nothing for the transformers in these movies.

Like obviously I like them but that’s because I have their toys but go try and ask non-fans who their favorite robot was that WASN’T Optimus or Bumblebee. Better yet just ask them to NAME one that isn’t OP, Bee, or Megs. They’ll probably struggle because try as they may, these robots have no fucking personality. They stand around and do nothing and only move with machine like force and precision during the action scenes, and any actual characterizing is over the top slapstick from racist caricatures.

THAT’S why I loved Bumblebee hiding in the corner for the trailer of his movie. It’s such a simple action but it tells you SOOOO much about him. He’s scared. Probably young. Doesn’t know where he is. Doesn’t trust anyone. It’s so human but it does so much.

THATS what I want to see. More Transformers moving and acting like human beings. Leaning up against a wall
With their arms crossed, or laying down with their heads behind their head, or twiddling their thumbs standing with their head down. It’s simple, and ultimately a small thing, but you’d be surprised at how important something like that is. If they move like people, that does a lot to get audiences to view them as people.

 

This is the biggest "problem" of Transformers Movies - some people from audience DON'T WANT to feel compassion to Autobots... Because people are so obsessed with the fact, that "this shitty movies are filmed by the crappiest director in Hollywood", so they just CAN'T feel anything else sincerely! I always can't understand such viewers. It causes a lot of pain for me to think, that I live in SUCH indifferent world, really...

You don't feel a compassion to Bumblebee in TF1 in the scene, when S7 captures him??? Or when Starscream shoots out his legs??? When Megatron tears Jazz apart? You don't feel anything? But I fell in love with this Movies in 2007, possibly mainly because they MAKE ME TO FEEL COMPASSION!

What about ROTF, the Movie "about humping dogs"? You don't feel a compassion to Bumlebee, when Sam refuses his friendship, leave him and go to college life? What about the scene in graveyard? BUT, DAMN, WHAT ABOUT FOREST BATTLE???!!! It was one of the hardest moments in my life, together with the day, when my father died suddenly... You possibly think, that it was just a good battle scene, yeah? Was it a self- sacrifice? Forgiveness of Sam's selfish actions? Care? Heroism? Love? Not defending of humanity, just protecting one human! Do you feel anything during the night scene after the Forest Battle? When Bumblebee supports Sam? When the Matrix turns into dust? When Megatron kills Sam and Micaela is bawling? Honestly, I never ever have seen any movie about extraterrestrials, which could be more emotional, beautiful and deep, than the first 4 TF Movies...

How about Sentinel's betrayal? The death of Ironhide??? Bumblebee almost being executed by Soundwave??? I have seen people in theater, who was crying in this scene, like me. Because I watched DOTM twice in the theater, otherwise I wouldn't noticed, because during the first watching I can see only the film.

What about the beginning of Age of Extinction??? The scenes in the Cade barn? What about Ratchet being chased by humans he defended, then killed and melted down???!!! You don't feel anything? You didn't think, why Autobots are so angry, why it is so difficult to forgive humans for this time? Do you ever tried to think, what they feel? Maybe you just didn't try?

Yeah, they are not similar to us, but they are extraterrestrials, they are from an other world, they haven't flesh, reproduction, families, parents... Their sociology is completely different! And it is realistic, because they are mechanical. But they have a soul. They can FEEL, they can LOVE, forgive, protect, sacrifice... They can feel sorrow and grief, they can suffer like everyone of us. They deserve a compassion! And they never ever ask for this...

I possibly just waste my time and tears writing it, because even the Movies itself tell - it is considered normal for human to be selfish. People are indifferent even for their family members. Not saying about just random people, who are in need. Most of people don't ever try to understand the Bibble, considering it as a wasting of time. What we should expect from them, watching "shitty" Michael Bay's movies?

 

idk i always felt like the they did a good job with how the robots moved...have you ever gotten up out of a sitting position & felt like sentinel prime or optimus coming out of a transformation? very realistic.

if i had one gripe regarding the robot physics it's when they fight & they are just rag dolling each other..looked rather silly.

 

The title is misleading,you mean 'act',not 'move' right?

 

This all the way. For the most part you are right about these movies. Autobots and Decepticons outside of Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, and Megatron literally have no personality. Maybe beside Sentinel Prime and Cogman but other than that non of the other TF characters don’t really have that personality beside generic archetypes the movie series is known for. The Autobots are almost always fighting amongst themselves and most of the Decepticons act as nothing more than big dumb generic monsters.

It’d be different if most these characters didn’t have names or were more like Godzilla based Kaiju or other monsters, but they’re not they’re the Transformers. Sentient robots with feelings and emotions like humans have, but that’s not the case here. In the movies both Autobots and Decepticons are just as angry, vicious, and remorseless as each other. The Autobots may even be worse than the Decepticons in my opinion.

Remember in DOTM when the Wreckers tore that Decepticons pilot to pieces? I don’t blame the humans in the movieverse for wanting to kill the Transformers if that’s how they always kill each other. Also I’m fully aware that Decepticon pilot killed a bunch of humans but when the Autobots turn around and tear their enemies to shreds like that and they’re suppose to be the goods guys, that kinda make you think doesn’t it.

Imagine if US soldiers were to tear an enemy who has already been defeated from limb to limb! That be fucking horrific to watch.

 

i choked up a few times, particularity when bee's legs were shot out & he was trying to get up & sam was imploring him to get up...ugh i dont like that scene..

& great call regarding rotf with bee in the garage..they touched me as well because sam is such a dick to the transformers in the 1st half of rotf..he's suddenly too cool for them...bee is just a prop to him now, a machine he keeps in the garage. out of sight. out of mind. & then when he coldly rebuffs prime's overture for assistance, practically pleading with him..that bothered me..obviously prime's death was gut-wrenching, especially not knowing at the time if he was gone for good & wtf happens next?

ironhide's death was absolutely shocking & brutal & was a seminal point in this franchise for me..his death (& the damn twins deaths!) was the point of no return...things were never again as good for the autobots after this moment.

although i will add that these films do seem to cancel the scenes of emotion with scenes of nonsensical, seemingly forced sections of juvenile humor that kills the mood & breaks the immersion (for me at least). a perfect example of this is cogman singing & acting like an idiot during the exposition scene..where i was getting into it & all a sudden cogman breaks the fourth wall.it's like, huh? what? oh ok back to the story...it's kind of schizophrenic in a sense..

i actually liked how the transformers were filmed like humans with the tight facial shots & realistic framing. (a random arm, or a snippet of a transformer would be included in a shot, just like in real life if an actual person were standing there) making them feel more realistic.

 

In TF5 it really annoys me! But in other Movies there is no so big contrast. In ROTF for example after Forest Battle we have Megatron-Starcsream scene on the skyscrapper and then the Fallen's landing, which is also very scary... In DOTM Sentinel goes to the base and destroy everything. You have a feeling of falling... And, honestly, I usually don't understand anything good after tragic scenes. I'm mostly just bawling at these times...

I haven't any problems with TFs' movement. They are so big and heavy, they can't move like humans. They can't cross the arms on the chest, because the chest is usually too wide for it. They haven't chairs (except of Lockdown) and usually they don't sit. I like it. They are extraterrestrials, they are not similar to us! In the same time, they are so strong and agile. It'sincreadible, how they do not destroy everything around them!

 

Yeah, that does seem more of what the OP was getting at. I think they were going about it from the angle of conveying what we'd normally see as "human" traits through character movement, body language and, as you said, personal acts.

 

I'll have to disagree on this one. Personally, my view is that alien robots should behave and move like alien robots, and not copy human traits.

I hated the supposed 'characterization' given to Hound, Drift, Crosshairs and the Wreckers. It was overdone and cliche. They no longer felt like advanced, sentient beings from a distant galaxy, but just human stereotypes in metal suits. Rather than relate and feel for them, they were annoying.

Maybe it's just me, but I like my Transformers as menacing and powerful machines from a different world entirely. That is what makes them unique. Earth is not the centre of the universe, and not everything should be like us.

 

I completley agree wtih you

 

Well they do use motion capture to animate the robots right? I haven no idea why it doesn't work. But there have been some scenes in which the character's motion speaks more about them. Basically what you described in your comment.

 

They do move like us to some extent. Being bipedal and having hands, arms and fingers and expressive faces. They even dance. But they're supposed to be a little clunky and slow and stilted. They can outwalk us when we're at a run because again, they're big.

 

I completely agree-basically Paramount has been operating under the ASSumption that filmgoers won't be able to connect or relate to a film about 2 warring factions of shape-shifting robots-and they've comvinced a bunch of people of that same worldview, too.

Therefore, they've over-populated these films with human characters, and spectacle at the expense of plot, character development and storytelling, under the ASSinine ASSumption that the concept of transforming robots doesn't warrant or merit anything other than a silly treatment of its essence. In the first 5 films, our favorite Cybertronians are pretty much glorified pets, and the filmmakers don't let us get too much into their heads, sparks, and souls (with some small exceptions). Plus, they over-emphasize Optimus and Bumblebee, forgetting that there are many Cybertronians who deserve development.

When confronted, they and their devotees use tired-a$$ "justifications" such as, "Well, it's just a toy movie", or "People just wanna see Transformers knocking each other upside the head", and can't forget this tired one: "Some xyz macguffin from human history, exists because Transformers had something to do with it."

Now, I also agree with you about Bumblebee-Travis has an impressive resume; However given the fact that he had to work under the same machine responsible for/guilty of 5 times committing the aforementioned (especially a certain recent reveal at Comic-Con that I'm not getting into), I am extremely skeptical.

December wil be the moment of truth-personally, I won't be paying for that moment. . .Others can. . .

 

The Transformers just need to have greater presence in general. Which they do - I mean, the cars representing them are on screen, why can't they just talk? Is that too silly a concept, talking cars even though technically they are not cars, but alien robots from a distant dead planet who possess the ability to mimic exclusively human machinery?

He doesn't refuse his friendship (the whole 'you're still my first car' line implies as much), not to mention if Sam could have taken Bee he would have - but he explicitly stated that the college he went to did not allow first years to have personal cars on campus. Most institutions have that kind of rule in place, at least in the states.

Hmmm, maybe it's the part where Prime has died in literally every single continuity? Prime dying is kind of a running joke in the franchise much like how Kenny in South Park kept dying every episode for the first ten seasons or something (before he started dying less because the animators couldn't think up new ways to kill him). The only time Prime ever died and was intended to stay dead to make it clear he actually was truly dead was the first animated film, which was the single point of most backlash that Hasbro hasn't allowed Prime to stay permadead in any continuity for the past thirty plus years as a result.

District 9. That's all I'm sayin'.

I was thinking the humans sort of deserve what is coming to them if they keep going after the Autobots no matter many times the only reason humanity is still around is because of the Autobots. The real tragedy is it shows how bad a character movie Optimus Prime is given he didn't think the humans after betraying the Autobots three times would decide to betray the Autobots without warning for a fourth time, and thus his only plan was to basically cut off all contact with everyone under his command, ensuring they would all die.

Soul? Isn't there a whole exchange in AoE about how Galvatron talks about how he doesn't have a soul, and he's right because humans can't create sparks?

I think you need to watch a greater selection of movies. I suggest The Godfather. I do genuinely think you'll like it. It's rather long, yes, but you stomached AoE well enough so I think you can handle the rise of Don Corleone.

 

One thing I'm hoping is that going forward we will see the Transformers exhibit a greater sense of weight and heft in their movements, as Bay made them very agile specifically to get away from big lumbering robot tropes. I think though that for such large beings they need to have a bigger physical presence as at the minute they feel lightweight and fragile, and frankly it takes me out of the fight scenes with them feeling less realistic despite the overall quality of the cgi (well DOTM and TF1 anyway).

 

Me too, and for the same reasons.

And yeah, the most annoying, groan worthy moments are when the Autobots use human mannerisms.

 

I'm fine with the presence of both. In fact, I prefer there being a range of movement styles.

You have some Transformers that aren't bipeds: Ravage, Laserbeak, Rampage, Stupid Drones, Dragonstorm, etc. Obviously they aren't going to move like humans.

Then you have guys like the Decepticons, Lockdown, Quintessa, and Infernocus, who all either despise humans or work for leaders who despise humans. Naturally, they are going to reject human culture and mannerisms, even if guys like Lockdown, Galvatron, TLK Megatron, and Quintessa have very visually expressive faces, and Lockdown moves a lot like a human.

Finally, the Autobots are the protagonists and usually the ones to interact more with humans past and present, so I'm fine if the main Autobots resemble humans in many ways. Yet we still get guys like the Dinobots who aren't especially human-like minus some barbarian and knight-like armor.

So rather than one or the other exclusively I greatly enjoy the presence of both human-like and non-human-like Transformers.

 

with the bay series, it's a hit and a miss, but mostly a miss.

it's not moving like humans per se as it is acts/traits of intelligent, sapient beings, meaning, living organisms that can feel, think, have fears, have emotions, have desires, motivation, goals.

there are several instances in bay's TF movies where the Transformers show some semblance of these traits: easily in part 1, you have Optimus's wisdom, crouching and leaning down to talk to humans, Bumblebee showing fear and panic as Sector 7 captures him.

Then in ROTF, you have the twins high-fiving, teasing and insulting Leo and cracking jokes. Wheelie's interactions with Sam and Mikaela and cracking jokes along the way.

In DOTM......... Optimus looking at the destruction Sentinel caused, the banter between Wheelie, Brains ("We're an advanced alien race just looking for a home").

In AOE... Can't really recall any instance where they have human, that is, if you include being a**holes a sign of acting like human because that's how pretty much the Transformers interacted with one another. Nothing of any significance or any meaning

In TLK, i guess some scenes at the junkyard where they're just bantering and talking, but, again, nothing of any significance or meaning.

Bottomline, bay's Transformers characters are severely lacking in these kinds of personality since ROTF where you can like them and invest in what they go through.

I'm looking for scenes where when one of them gets injured, the other Autobots or Cons would pull them away from battle and into safety.

Or a scene where they are scared for their wounded Cybertronian comrades during the heat of battle.

Or scenes where they are high fiving with each other or with their human friends and the humans shake their hand from the pain of slapping metal and the Cybertronian says "Oops, sorry".

Or a scene where a human ally with a baby shows introduces her baby to Optimus, Optimus crouches down and ever so gently and delicately brings his strong metallic index finger to the cheek of the baby and starts to stroke it ever so very softly and gently as Optimus is aware of his strength and their different composition (they are made of metal after all).

But even in their alt modes, the Cybertronians/Transformers can have a hell of a lot of dialogue and interaction going by just talking while in their alt modes and get more perspective as to what they go through and their points of view.

This is the reason why bay's Transformers movies since the first movie have, at best, been disorganized without any thought to meaningful action, purpose & relationships of the characters both Cybertronian and human. in bay's movies, when the Cybertronians are not doing anything or at rest, they just spend that time in their alt mode. just look at the scenes of the Cybertronians at the base: they're in their alt modes. you don't see them interacting with the people in the base. then Bumblebee spends most of his time in sam's garage in his alt mode.

this was corrected a bit in DOTM when at least you see Bee training with NEST commandos in their base. but, that was it.

i mean, jokes are not bad. God knows there's too much of them in the bay's TF movies, & most of it is crass & crude, which I don't mind either. but pretty much, after the 2007 movie, the Transformers' relationships with each other and their human mates are at best meaningless.

why couldn't we have a little bit of dialogue between isabella moner's character &, say, for example, Hound, with Hound sitting right next to her and asking her what she's doing or how her day has been seeing that Hound understands and gets that her family has been killed in the chicago battle?

so all in all, in bay's movies, the Autobots after the 2007 movie lack empathy and the Decepticons lack camaraderie (since they've been so easy to kill). and, really, you could already witness the beginnings of the Autobots' lack of empathy in the bay movies when you go to the 2007 movie at the end. Watch Optimus hold Jazz's split body parts in his hands. He goes in his speech while still holding Jazz while Ironhide puts his hands on his waist. it was not a solemn event in any sense where they pay tribute to a fallen comrade. nope. but we forgive it because it was the first Transformers live action movie. but, yep, in this scene alone we can already see how things are not well thought out, even in instances where their comrades fall in battle and it just became progressively worse.

again, i go back to had these movies been organized and well thought out, the Transformers live action franchise would've already been the equivalent of the MCU right now & we most likely wouldn't even have to talk about reboots & such.

 

No, they don't use except for Cogman. There are professional choreographists in the team to help with references, but ILM don't use motion capture directly. As far as I know.

Strangely, but I often feel that Transformers are heavy. Maybe except for Lockdown, but it is suitable for him.

 

That was a great scene with Megatron and Starscream,it kinda felt like Earth was falling apart after Prime died and our guys were aimless.The moment Optimus arrives at the base after Sentinel leaves and transforms and that soundtrack makes me feel the betrayal in the air.I never had a problem following what happens after a sad scene because even when I get emotional the interested side of me is still there to comprehend what happens after