I agree 100%.

 

Always great to hear the truth. Makes me feel a lot better.

 

True that. It seems like G1 fans and Movie fans start these arguments just so they can turn around and act offended, as if they were victims grievously wronged by someone debating their points. I've seen it on both sides of the debate, and both sides call each other out on it, just to do the same exact thing themselves. I like aspects of G1 (I read through the Marvel Transformers comics last year and I love them to pieces), and I like aspects of the movies (my avatar betrays my love of the movie version of Bumblebee). I just wish that both sides could appreciate the good of both, and calmly debate the criticisms and complaints they have with both without playing the victim. Even if one side can't find anything to enjoy about the other, there's no reason not to be civil about another's enjoyment of it.

It's times like this I'm glad I stick to the friendlier atmosphere of the Toy Discussion and the Funnies forum. I'm sorry, but I can only take my movies and cartoons about children's toys so seriously. Sorry guys.

 

Fucking thank you. This is the truth, because this man knows what he’s talking.

 

Thank you.

 

Optimus Prime is kind being and would never and shouldn’t ever stoop down to his enemies standards.
This is why I will agree with and support you.

 

I can take movies and cartoons extremely seriously, as I believe that art is what I live for. Even commercial art, like this. But, you are so right about this. I wish everyone was as level headed and not easily baited into this false binary dichotomy that has been created and perpetuated for a decade.

 

Yeah remember that time when the Wreckers tore that decepticon pilot from his ship and then proceeded to tear him limb from limb? Because that’s what every hero does to a nameless soldier right?

 

I can definitely understand that, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't invested in the stories. I just dislike how enjoyment or lack thereof of a series of films based on toys is so often the reason for judging people's moral fiber, intelligence, and maturity in these forums. I absolutely agree that the idea that there should be "sides" is ridiculous, beyond friendly debate and civil discussion.

 

I think, to a certain degree, this situation has been manufactured. Marketing goes deeply into psychology and studios want people fanaticized with their product. It is also fairly easy for a studio, or corporation to dodge criticisms by massive ad hominem practices, like calling any naysayer a "geewunner", or "backwards", or "stuck in the past", or "toxic", or whatever people were called for criticizing the Ghostbusters reboot, or now that Star Wars is under heavy criticism. And in truth, very few people fit those exact descriptions and rarely do their arguments originate from that sort of mental space. Fans of the studio's newest product that is under criticism by the old fans, parrot the studio's response, because they want to defend what they love.

It's quite a bit more complex issue than people just being negatively predisposed, on their own, with one another. I hope that doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory. It's fairly standard practice in politics and business. And I think that problem originates with how Hasbro has chosen to handle a fairytale that they sell, that people are emotionally invested in. Because, for all of us, that's the root of everything good and bad about how we go about being fans: emotions. People are defensive of things they love, and that's being taken advantage of. It takes some maturity to see past that and reflect on your emotions well enough to not be overtaken by them and react violently.

I actually believe you can tell quite a bit from someone's demeanor and tastes in arts and, of course their opinions and how they express them and if they are or aren't able to reconsider them in the context of a discussion. But that doesn't mean that everything can fit into little boxes of simplified perception, like "he likes the movies, so he must be like this", or "he likes G1 so he must be like this". I love G1, I dislike the movies as adaptations of it, but I admire a hell of a lot about them! Where does that put me?

 

It's likely going to be when the Bumblebee movie comes out that we can really advance the discussion to something different. Sure every so often you can find that fan has grown tired of the live action series, but for the most part it's been slightly more of this or slightly less of that from film to film. For all the claims of things like soft reboot or we listened to the criticism the changes from film to film have been very slight.

We just don't have anything like the MCU where there have been phases and an idea of while the building blocks of the films might be the same they need to feel different. We don't even have something like the DCEU where you have something like Wonder Woman to debate what the film universe should feel like.

 

But that isn't the reason. Whether someone likes or dislikes the films isn't being used to determine or judge people's moral fiber, intelligence, and maturity. It's the rationale behind someone's inclination to dislike an aspect of the films that is being analyzed to determine someone's moral fiber. There is a depth to that which needs to be acknowledged if you want to call it out. Of course, though, you can twist it to make it sound like whatever conclusion you support, but that is dishonest and ignores the depth to the discussion.
You say you witness uncivil behavior on these forums from both G1 fans and movie fans, but you forget or maybe you are simply ignorining the fact that it has been G1 fans (not saying all G1 fans or trying to offend any G1 fans) who have started and continue to influence uncivil discussions in this thread. The fact that anyone would have to mention this is beating a dead horse. Since ROTF, at least, G1 fans have been on these forums and just about everywhere else ridiculing the films and movie fans beyond necessity. We get it if there are things people dislike about the movies or think the movies are complete trash. Nothing is wrong with that, because everyone has their own tastes. But it goes without saying that G1 fans have, for the longest, been slandering the films simply to ignite heated arguments, flamebaiting, and ridiculing people simply because they like the films. Even in this thread peope are saying you're an idiot or an alien if you think a certain way in favor of the films. Hence these types of remarks:

(still talking to DOTMBumblebee here)
What you're saying applies specifically to these type of people.
It's shit like this that doesn't get reprimanded but instead ignored, that results in movie fans such as myself acting demoralized or "uncivil" as you put it. By refusing to acknowlegde this you are not idenifying the actual issue to what you see as a problem. You don't have to like movie fans, but this forum cuts G1 fans a LOT of a slack for what they are more responsible for.

Not everything is "this person dislikes Bayformers so he is bad" from movie fans. And I'm sick of people turning to that to defend whatever conclusion they want to exist. It's intentionally ignoring the actual points or intentions of someone.

 

Well what I'm saying is that the whole "everybody has a completely different perception of media" shtick is bullshit. Studies show that it's actually like 99% identical, although some fall into different interpretive camps. By and large, the sound and visual cues of a film are universal. And that's actually pretty kewl

I don't dislike anyone here! I even like the first two movies and I really love Dark of the Moon! But nothing's perfect. I gotta stay critical

 

Which makes me interested in watching Speed Racer now.
People like you can just turn your brains off and enjoy the spectacles, then. It requires nothing for you to ignore any social commentary in a movie such as Transformers or Speed Racer. Others who are looking for greater narrative depth can enjoy the films too. It's a win win.
Are you damning a film for having social commentary but then damning it again if it doesn't?
Also, I'm not saying adding social commentary automatically improves a film. In fact, I agree with you that it doesn't. I even hate when critics praise a film solely because it does include social commentary. It makes no sense to me.
In this case, though, I find the dynamic between the humans and Transformers to be very interesting. Maybe others don't, great. But people need to stop complaining and saying that the movies don't attempt to have depth when they obviously do try to.

Everythng you said here is opinionated, and I disagree with you on everything but I'm not going to argue it since it's just a bunch of opinions.

 

I was talking to DOTMBumblebee, I was just mentioning your comment as an example.
I wasn't replying to you.

Also, I'd like to see an objective report on that study because I don't believe that's true. People do have different tastes. Visual and sound cues of a film are similar because film school has brainwashed artists into believing there is only one way to create a film. Audiences are just accustomed to the product of this.

 

I’m not a G1 purest, I’m a fan of the series in general. I loved Armada, Animated, RID 2001, and the aligned continuity. I even like some parts of the movies and even did a thread of my favorite movie designs.

I don’t like Movie Optimus Prime’s personality. It makes me mad that he goes from “Well never forsake the people and the earth” to “We’re done defending the humans.” Instead of trying to be better than his enemies he becomes no different from them by stooping down to their standards or even lower.

That’s not a hero, it’s a petty immature person who doesn’t always get his way and that’s not who Optimus Prime should be portrayed as.

 

Like, it's pretty telling when Prime supposedly turns evil in TLK, except he doesn't actually do anything different (or do ANYTHING really lol) than how he normally acts except shoot Bumblebee - and that doesn't even count as a kill because Bumblebee suddenly pulls an Iron Giant out of nowhere because his plot armor is infinitely thick.

 

Oh people absolutely do. Qualitative evaluations will vary wildly. But as far as things like literal inferences and understandings people will make based on what they see and hear, movies are pretty good at communicating.

Well it’s a language. It’s constantly being developed and we’re getting really sophisticated with what we can do with it. But a lot of it’s based on universal human experiences and understandings. Like red = danger. A filmmaker could use blue tones to signify danger. But it’d be his or her own fault when nobody got it

 

The original screenplay for the ending of Dark of the Moon wasn’t stupid, it was actually quite interesting to portray Megatron differently than in the garbage ass final film. Megatron actually has character in the original screenplay of the movie, but it was thrown out because Michael Bay is a fucking idiot who doesn’t know how to make good characters and doesn’t give two shits about the fan base.

Why does everyone keep forgetting that Sentinel betrayed Megatron first? Sentinel literally grabs Megatron by the head and tears out a huge chunk of his head to show him who’s boss now and demoralizing him in front of his decepticons. That’s actually a plot point in the movie and one of the main reasons he betrays Sentinel to begin with. There’s even fucking screencaps of it on the internet so I don’t know why people wouldn’t be able to post those images on here. I would if I knew how.

Also another thing just because a character has the same name doesn’t mean they’re the same character. The Movie Optimus is such a different character than his other counterparts. That’s not just G1 but, also Armada, RID 2001, and most of the aligned continuity. The other Optimus’s actually have the humility to admit when they’re wrong majority of the time when they screw up. The Movie Optimus only did it twice and were half assed both times they were done and it felt very insincere.