First Image of IDW Unicron in Robot mode!

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by Omegashark18, Mar 24, 2018.

  1. harrismonkey

    harrismonkey Well-Known Member

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    He's got the whole world in his hand...


    That is beautiful. If one of the 3P parties (or Hastak if they actually take it seriously and don't half ass it) makes him, he's pretty much bought.
     
  2. AlienRadio

    AlienRadio Avatar of Entropy

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    The person who mentioned generation 3 has hit the nail on the head. Mythic stories are retold again and again often changing with each retelling. sometimes the changes are improvements other times things don't work out as expected. the IDWverse is Gen 3 (i guess technically, Gen 4 since dreamwave took a shot at g1 with only furman, and milne ghosting for funana as the only things worth a damn to come out of it). Gen 1 was the initial burst of creativity a bunch of borrowed toys mashed together into a ramshackle universe (naturally occuring gears and levers?). the nature of the toyline meant that lots of characters suddenly appear out of nowhere, but despite being around for ages aparrently no one had ever mentioned until they turned up. with IDW Furman specifically decided to not do g1 the same and make conscious choices to prevent overuse of previous transformers lore. Galvatron and Megatron as seperate characters, setting up a completely new big bad, so he'd get to avoid leaning on unicron,starting with infiltration units, mixing up the cast so it's not all 84 bots (there's a cast or hundreds, why always start with the same dozen?) it was fantastic. then AHM shat the bed, and largely because it was trying to satisfy those rabid season 1 and 2 fans. All of the awesome sci fi worldbuilding that furnman had been doing gets poleaxed (sunstreaker's a headmaster? Skorponok as an Early Game Big Bad?) things remain tits up until british sci fi sensibility is brought back. The currents of 2000AD run deep. At that point Wreckers, John Barber proves an adept editor and continuity genius, someone finally works out that transformers can (ironically) do scale when it comes to story telling. You pull back the camera from the boy and his car (spike, bumblebee, hunter, sunstreaker) to the wider conflict and the scale goes planetary then interplanetary it eventually involves the conflict of gods. They told that story over 15 years which is not a bad shout.

    so what about Gen 4(5)? well, Given michael bay shat paramount's bed, doing bumblebee as a period 80's piece may save it, we know the upcoming generations line will be war for cybertron era, or pre earth anyway, I'm guessing they just brought forward a planned reboot hence the truncated POTP line they're palnned out to 2021 I think, in a very vague sense, the parts reuse is very interesting, I'm guessing they have a strategy to build up some kind of parts library. Anyway bring out unicron reboot the whole lot.

    so what next apply lessons about what worked and what didn't

    what works
    Scale
    actually treating it like a sci-fi universe, there are other mechanical life forms out there. how? why?
    having multiple factions with competing interests. (autobot vs decepticon is just ONE conflict, IDWs universe has DOZENS, conflict = story milage and character, and hasbro is now in the IP chracater management business)
    you don't have to be tied to a strict repitition of previous story beats.
    you can set stories at many previous points across millions of years
    Giving characters motiviation beyond moustache twirling
    new characters for existing subgroups and factions.
    allow prime's arc to be a long one keep him offscreen a lot
    a cycle of GREAT WARS
    the idea that they've driven themselves to near extinction
    their gods probably don't give two shits about them



    what didn't work
    allowing an Australian to write transformers (jk, but McCarthy was dreadful, drift was an awful idea kinda rehabilitated under roberts, pandering to the s1 s2 fetishists was dumb)
    Fan made characters in ongoing present day storytelling. Hasbro have got a great idea to get fans more invested in characters, by having the fans tell them (kinda) what they want. whata doesn't work from a storytelling point of view is suddenly introducing editorially mandated toys that need prominant roles when it may disrupt story telling flow. this is obviously how it's always been done but part of me can hel but think there must be a better way to showcase new characters and not balls up an ongoing plot line.
    hamhanded attempt to deal with gender in transformers. I'd love to see a properly genderless society or one where romantic relationships are genderless, it would be great sci fi storytelling, the preblem is the movie is a big part of what makes transformers waesome and there's a pretty transparent clone of leia organ running aound in it, Arcee's too popular to ignore and furman's initial solution to the problem doesn't fly nowadays. better to go with a spectrum of gender then, as there's a spectrum of forms.
    beast fans want beasts from the start

    why not take advantage of several of these things. Your s1s2 characters are going to be a big draw so ration them out, start small scale again, introduce lore in stages appropriate to the scale of the story telling have fembots from the start, you can't pretend women don't exist, don't buy transformers and don't want some that are vaguely female or non female shaped. hasbro wants to sell product, you probably also need micromasters or minicons of some sort hasbro will want to come back to that repeatedly so make sure you have an explaination lined up ahead of time because those gorlam prome micromasters are a weird carbuncle on idw continuity.

    suppose you even mapped out a broad outline of major historical points going back millions of years, we have a bunch of flashback material from the autocarcy stuff and the roberts stuff but that could also do with some serious massaging.

    more dinobots, more Dynobots, grimlock can potentially have a great arc

    run more than one ongoing but set then at differnt points. one when cybertron is destablising, one where the civil war is raging on cybertron, one where it reaches earth one where it has spilled out into the wider galaxy, one maybe one wher they deal with the consequeces of peace, cause I've really enjoed that one. each allows for a different kind of story telling, if new characters get introduced they can be introduced in the past, they can be revealed alive or dead in series set later

    have a multiple tribes, beasts, micromasters/minicons, a speed planet, quintessons, junkions.

    opportunity for some prunign and smoothing I think. They want to be thinking long term about how they can keep trademarks of 800 characters.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
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  3. dragon_lord

    dragon_lord great dragon god

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    Apparently, it's not Ok.

    Apparently it does :lol .

    Or at least if we go by the standards of some users in this thread.
     
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  4. ErbFan28

    ErbFan28 Well-Known Member

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    I haven't read any Transformers since, like, issue 15 of MTMTE. I need to catch up.
     
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  5. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II Banned

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    I've seen people complain about that before.
    There are obvious examples and I agree those were bad ideas because the writers chose to disrupt the story instead of working the toys into the story : CW, TR.
    But if someone wrote a story and along the way a character gets involved that gets a toy the story would not be disrupted.
    It just depends on the effort the writer wants to put in.
    Making toy commercials is their job.
    If they cannot do that while incorporating those commercials into their stories in a non disruptive way they are bad at their job.
     
  6. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II Banned

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    No character is too popular to ignore.
    It's frustrating to read so much that I agree with in your post, yet a handfull of things keep me from liking it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  7. WereDragon EX

    WereDragon EX Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I thought that IDW still had a lot of stories to tell in this continuity and several directions that they could have taken things as such. Introducing Unicron like this seemingly out of the blue seems like a way to force a conclusion to a storyline that no one seems to know how to properly end. At the very least, if this development does indeed spell the end of the continuity, I do hope it\'s built up to in an organic manner.
     
  8. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II Banned

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    Actually quite a bit of people dispute that Transformers are analogs for people.
    The problem we do face with Transformers is the question wether something is humanization, behaviour that comes from coming into contact with humans (playing basketbal), or whether it is behaviour that is just coincidentally something that humans also do.
    Just because birds often mate for life doesn't mean they behave like humans, nor does it mean they are analogs for people

    I heartily agree that we should explore what makes Transformers unique and not focus too much on their similarities with us though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  9. Erwin

    Erwin Well-Known Member

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    What I realized only this week, is that these robots are millions and millions years old. For such ancient creatures, they are remarkably human in their decision making, how they rush in to things, etc. I would kind of have expected them to act like Tolkien's Ents in Lord of the Rings: slow and ponderous, but quite the unstoppable force when triggered. instead of sci-fi, this could also very much be fantasy. (I read somewhere most great sci-fi is actually just fantasy but with modern props. I have since embraced that philosophy.)
     
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  10. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II Banned

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    What you can observe in TF fiction is that there is little evolution for a very long time and then a lot of things change.
    But I sure as hell can't make any conclusions about that apart from that in part being the result of their absurdly long lifespan and the fact that little TF fiction deals with the prea-earth time.
     
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  11. RodimusSupreme

    RodimusSupreme Banned

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    You think that’s me being a “Dick”? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
     
  12. ultramagnus1

    ultramagnus1 Well-Known Member

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    One guy that has to be a bit miffed that Unicron is happening in IDW has to be simon Furman. He envisioned the d-void as this continuities Unicron so to have the chaos bringer actually turn up must, surely on some level annoy him even if he doesn't publicly say anything.

    This design has traces of prime Unicron in it with the traditional g1 colors. Its a good design but its not the greatest ever. It will be interesting to see Unicron's connection to Cybertron beyond what we saw in first strike. As IDW love to put different spins on characters (something that we tend to forget) then maybe there will be a different spin in the chaos bringer this time.

    Despite it being the end I'm interested in seeing how it plays out.
     
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  13. GirlBot

    GirlBot Mini-Cassette

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    Wasn't stagnation one of the reasons Megatron in the original G1 comics started the war? From what he was saying I gathered that Cybertron was some kind of (dysfunctional) utopia where there was peace, nobody died, but at the same time nothing really ever changed, because there was no need to. Megatron intoduced war to Cybertron to invoke a change plus some other goals. At least I think it was something along that lines o_O 
     
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  14. ultramagnus1

    ultramagnus1 Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much. Cybertron was a peaceful society with not a lot happening until Megatron decided to make a power play, create his own army of followers who were designed for war and attacked the peace loving Autobots destroying them in their thousands until optimus prime rose up within their ranks to strike back.

    The conflict got do bad that Cybertron was shook loose from its orbit and came across an asteroid field that threatened to destroy Cybertron so prime being prime along with some Autobots built the ark to go out and destroy them. Megatron took advantage of a weakened autobots and attacked the ark which lead to prime setting the course for earth and crashing the ark....

    That's what I remember from marvel us and thus the franchise we all know and love was born.....
     
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  15. AlienRadio

    AlienRadio Avatar of Entropy

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    State Games from TFUK , Which is MASSIVELY influential is the first retelling of the origins of the war, Text only uk annual story, Yes Cybertron was stagnant, but also because of the fact that they were all immortal and became more fuel inefficiant with age, cybertron was undergoing a resource crises while in the grip of an inflexible aristocracy, with local aristocacies in each city state.
     
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  16. ProtectronPrime

    ProtectronPrime Subjectively Objective

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    You know, I go back and forth on this one. I'm okay with gendered robots. I'm okay with alien robot romance. Drop them into my stories all you like. Just don't derail my damn story to tell me all about your robot sex change UNLESS the story is about sex change. Still then, don't expect me to sit around when you publish nine sex change stories in a row because I'm frankly not interested in sex change stories. I want to read about Devastator punching Wheelie into a pancake.

    In short, what I'm not okay with is agenda. I am dead tired of people using things I enjoy as entertainment as a subversive means to push their moral code on me. As a result, I can definitely understand how you might not like things in your media, or how others definitely want that thing in your media that you don't want.

    The problem for me is this: At what point am I just not reading the room, as it were? It's one of those weird social gray areas. It might be 100% legal for me to swear like a sailor... but I probably shouldn't do it in a daycare and I shouldn't roll my eyes and tell everyone about my freedom of speech when people complain. Similarly, if I run a skinhead biker bar maybe the live band I order for Thrasher's "Release From Jail" party shouldn't be the "Magical Inclusive Hugtime Safespace Band".

    In other words, is my NOT liking stories with someone's political agenda in it and voicing my displeasure the same as me cussing in a daycare? Is Random Person's love for gay transformers and clamoring for more the same as inviting a pride parade to a skinhead biker rally? With more and more socially conscious younger people being added to the fandom every day, am I becoming an outmoded dinosaur when I roll my eyes at yet another transgendered character? I don't really know. There's enough vocal complaints on both sides to where I'm never sure where this fandom ever stands on anything.

    I wish we all got to get what we want, because boy howdy, whatever side we're on I'm sure we're all sick of the arguments. Asking for tolerance is a big ask. To that end, I wish you the loudest voice at your next disagreement. ;) 

    At the risk of being nitpicky and old, neither Dreamwave nor IDW was "Generation 3". "Generation 2" and any substance from that anemic source came from Furman as a continuance of the G1 comic and a direct sequel which covered Jhiaxus and the Swarm, etc. etc. which was subsequently "supplanted" by Regeneration One. G2 wasn't a mythic story retold again and again - it's basically where we got Jhiaxus, the Leige Maximo, and (possibly) the base inspiration for DVoid in the form of the Swarm.

    Do what you like, clearly, but calling Dreamwave or IDW "Generation 3" is about as arbitrary as calling the Wings Universe "Generation 3" or an old banana peel "Generation 3". :p 
     
  17. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    This is the only thing I’m going to say about gender in TFs:

    The idea of a totally gemderless machine race is cool. It’s a high concept sci-fi idea worth exploring.
    But Transformers is not high concept. It’s a kids’ cartoon based on a kids’ toyline. It’s sci-fantasy in the same vein as Star Wars complete with magic & mysticism mixed in with its science bits. And the boat sailed decades ago on whether or not they have gender. The answer being yes. To try to come in now & put that genie back in the bottle is not going to happen. Especially since Hasbro wants them to be gendered and easily identifiable as boy or girl to its audience of kids.

    If you want to see that idea explored, you’re better off looking elsewhere. Like maybe the Geth from Mass Effect.

    Not a slam on people that want them to be non-gendered. Not calling anyone sexist or whatever. Just the reality that it’s easier for Hasbro to market & sell toys to kids if they’re more relatable. Hasbro’s bottom line is all about selling toys, not crafting deep literature.
     
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  18. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II Banned

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    It's a concept that could have been explored in oscure fiction like Fun Pubs. But that ship has sailed sadly.
     
  19. Bahamut Prime

    Bahamut Prime Even Kaiba supports 'em!

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    HOT. DAMN! :jawdropper: 
     
  20. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    And really, there was a time when the idea could’ve been explored, when Simon Furman was writing the Marvel TF books. He pushed the idea, but he never did anything with it other than to say, “nothing to see here.”
     
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