BINGO!

Until IDW drops this shared universe bullshit and goes back to telling decent Transformers stories imma voting with my wallet

 

So uh, going through this thread, I've not actually seen anyone say that they dislike the new designs because Leoric is black. I've seen plenty say they dislike the designs because they deviate too far from the original. Not the same thing.

However I've seen lots of people cry 'racist' at anyone daring to criticise the new designs. It's sad that this is what discourse has come to.

You're allowed to dislike something being redesigned or changed without automatically being racist. Lots of people don't like change (and that's FINE, we're in a fandom which constantly defaults to the 80s looks for crying out loud, and Hasbro encourage that!) Lots of people are actually genuinely attached to the characters they grew up with (and that's FINE, Hasbro put a lot of effort into those characters. Bob Budiasky was involved, we like his stuff!). Lots of people prefer the more 'knights in armour' look than 'Mad Max' (and that's FINE, it's an aesthetic choice). None of those opinions make someone racist.

But claiming people are being racist when they're not is, you know, libel.

(What do I think? I'm a big fan of these original designs and less so of gritty Mad Max style stuff, but eh, we'll see! Happy to give anything a chance on its own merits!)

 

Just want to point out that of IDW's three Transformers titles, only one was affected by the shared universe, and the total effect there was "Marissa Faireborn's dad shows up". You are, essentially, complaining about IDW putting out other comics you don't have to read to understand the ones you were reading already.

 

As a long-time fan of the Visionaries I don't digs this tribal-punk design for the characters, even worse matching staff/shield animals with their chest sigil. I was really looking forward to the revival of this franchise, I will read the first issue at least to see if they do something decent with the story and caughts my attention, but otherwise I guess I'll have to pass.

 

Yeah, you are right people are allowed to "dislike" the change to the character's ethnicity. I and others are equally allowed to draw our own inferences about their dislike.

 

and who is saying that they think black people are worthless pieces of crap? where are you seeing anything like that?

the main criticism is that they changed it and it shouldn't be changed. i said before even if leoric was white and kept everything about his new redesign, there would still be complaints. Those of us who enjoyed the original show as kids have waited thirty years for someone to return to Visionaries and when they do, it's nothing like it used to be. Whereas over in Transformers, 80s cartoon accuracy colors and designs for modern toys are something thats common-place.

I dislike Leoric having blonde hair. Are you going to be wrong on that too, thinking that I must hate all people with blonde hair just because I don't want one character to be blonde?

 

OK. So basically someone with no investment with Visionaries?

The whole thing with Visionaries is that they live in a post-technology world where magic has replaced science.
Wiggly light sabres look great and all, but they're not whips.
Blue and green armour? Ish at best. Blue and green and black and purple. And before accusations of pedantry, look again at the colour breakup.



Leoric proper has blue armour, with green for the non-plate bits.

Aside from the picture of a lion, which now is not even a lion, but a liger, there is nothing. Heck, I know he's cooler, but it's not it's not the same character. It's a totally different character with the same name.

No. No, it's not.
Red and blue truck - yes
Blue head, red chest, blue legs - yes
Mouth plate - yes*

If blue/green armour and a whip are the criteria, let me present another equally valid Leoric. I'll just Photoshop a lion on her somewhere and done.

 

Sorry, point out anywhere where someone has criticised the change to the character's ethnicity.

From your arguments I assume you've never seen the original designs? That's what people are talking about, not any change to race.

The change in design is basically from a clean techno knight armour (think G1 Pretenders / Lego Nexo Knights) to this more Mad Max / grunge sort of design. That's it. It's pretty stark. Not saying they're bad designs, they're consistent and will probably fit with whatever storyline IDW have going. But no-one's saying anything about race apart from the people complaining that people are being racist.

 

I could have accepted this new design as a separate character to Leoric no problem. That would work. Saying this new guy is Leoric just doesn't work for me as a fan of the show in the 80s and having fond memories of the show today.

And no, I don't think of movie Skids as being the same character as G1 Skids just because they have the same name. The difference in Transformers is that the original series is continuing to this day and we are getting the old designs appropriately updated and modernised. And we are also getting several different continuities alongside the continuation of G1 where Hasbro is free to deviate from the original designs as much as they wish. If we were getting an accurate continuation of the 80s Visionaries alongside the new Visionaries, I wouldn't mind so much either. But this is the first time Visionaries has been returned to since the show ended in the 80s.

 

Skywarp is in G.I. Fuckin Joe
Astrotrain was in M.A.S.K. Annual (his corpse anyway)
ROM is currently Crossing over with Transformers
Kup and Blackrock are in Revolutionaries
Arcee Kup Jazz are in the Latest Micronauts
now Ninjas...........NINJAS are attacking Cybertron.......yeah fuck that
now this Visionaries crap

 

You doth protest a little too much 

 

Don't worry, I'll do it myself.

 

Yes, exactly. If I, as a person who knows almost nothing about Visionaries, can immediately recognise the new design as being Leoric, then clearly it looks plenty like Leoric, in contrast to your claim that "nothing about this that design that looks even vaguely reminiscent of Leoric".

Like I said before, there's no denying that it's a very different take on Leoric, and I absolutely get that the barbarian aesthetic is too much of a departure for some people, but saying it looks nothing like Leoric is just silly.

Yes, and you're not obliged to read any of those books, nor are they required in any way to understand the TF-only books. There's literally nothing stopping you from ignoring them completely.

 

Yeah. At the end of the day it's a very different take on the Visionaries (barbarian knights as opposed to spacesuit-armor knights), and you don't have to like it or prefer it to the original; but similarly, there's nothing wrong with doing a redesign or different take. The original designs are not sacred, and coming up with new takes does not automatically imply disrespect to or hatred of the originals.

Okay. You still have three Transformers titles with little-to-no shared universe elements.
Rom isn't crossing over with Transformers. I don't know where you got that from. Skywarp and Kup ended up in GI Joe and Revolutionaries because there wasn't any place for them in the Transformers titles.
And... you really care that much about Astrotrain that you need to read a comic in which his corpse is the Macguffin of the day, despite not being interested in anything else in the comic...?

 

So question, seeing as the Earth Drops from Inhumanoids were all white, do any of you think if they added Inhumanoids to the universe they might a few them?

 

ROM vs. Transformers Shining Armor?

And i want the full Transformers experience without having to delve into other properties that are DOA

 

You forgot to make her black...

 

My take on this is that if I want to read about my favorite Transformers, I shouldn\'t have to read about them being crammed into some half-hearted needless crossover with a different franchise that I don\'t care about. How many crossovers do we need?

 

Fair point, but if *everything* has been given a new take, how are they the Visionaries anymore? Surely it's just something new.

People changing into animals is not unique to Visionaries. What makes it 'the Visionaries' is all the other stuff.

 

Ah, right. I assumed you were talking about.

But... if this shared universe wasn't happening, Skywarp and Kup and Astrotrain still wouldn't be around. Like, they'd maybe be appearing in the background occasionally. Your experience would be exactly the same as if you just read the current Transformers-branded titles.

Same goes for this series. Just because Ironhide and the other Cybertron-based Transformers are appearing in this crossover doesn't mean they'd be appearing somewhere else if the crossover wasn't happening.

(Honestly, there is no "Transformers experience". Each of the ongoings tells a different story. You don't need to read the others to experience them in full.)

Warrior knights from a world where science has given way to magic, guided by an enigmatic wizard; the heroes are led by a whip-wielding man in blue armor who bears the emblem of a lion. That sounds like Visionaries to me.